HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[sudhir007]

DRDO, IAF rapped for time, cost overruns in LCA project - India - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: A Parliamentary panel on Thursday slammed the DRDO and the IAF for the 27-year delay and the cost overruns in their Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, describing it as "a very sorry state of affairs".

It also asked the defence ministry to commission the indigenous fighter jet Tejas expeditiously after obtaining its operational clearance within the stipulated time-frame and without cost escalation by taking all desired steps.

"The committee concludes that this is a very sorry state of affairs. Even when 27 years have passed since LCA was sanctioned, it has still to see the light of the day," the parliamentary committee on defence said in its latest report tabled in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha.

"All desired steps should be taken so that Tejas is operational by the stipulated timeframe and there is no further cost escalation," the report said.

The LCA, sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore, is slated to be ready for initial operational clearance only by December this year.

The first phase of the project was completed in April 2004 at a cost of Rs 2,188 crore.

The sanctioned cost of the second phase was Rs 3,301.87 crore and the originally scheduled date of completion was December 31, 2008.

The defence ministry informed the panel that in November 2009 further sanction was accorded for continuing full scale engineering development of LCA, touted to be a fourth generation fighter jet, till December 2018 with an additional cost of Rs 5,302.98 crore.

The committee noted that the engine of Tejas was running into serious problem and the option of either importing an engine or persisting with the indigenously developed Kaveri engine was finally decided upon by favouring a foreign engine for which tenders had been issued.

"The committee emphasises that the various problems being faced with Tejas engine should be sorted out expeditiously," the report said.

 

[pandamonkey]

This is a new article i found today about the LCA on timesofindia.

NEW DELHI: The overall developmental cost of Tejas Light Combat Aircraft has quietly zoomed past the Rs 13,000-crore mark, with the government sanctioning the extension of the fighter's "full-scale engineering development'' (FSED) till December 31, 2018. This, in effect, means the Tejas developmental saga will now stretch across 35 years, sanctioned as the project was way back in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore to replace the ageing MiG-21s. Tejas, in fact, can now give the Arjun main-battle tank a run for its money in terms of years taken for full development. The tank project, after all, was first approved 36 years ago. It is, of course, critical for India to boost indigenous defence production, importing as it still does 70% of its military hardware and software, but this probably is not the way. "This is a very sorry state of affairs. Even after 27 years since LCA was sanctioned, it is yet to see light of the day,'' says the latest report of the parliamentary standing committee on defence, tabled in Parliament on Thursday. Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, Aeronautical Development Agency and DRDO argue developing a supersonic fly-by-wire fourth-generation fighter from scratch, with international sanctions in place for several years, is an incredibly complex and tough task. The project, after all, includes single-seater IAF, twin-seater trainer and naval LCA variants. With Tejas prototypes clocking 1,350 flights till now, the "final operational clearance'' for the IAF variant is now slated for December 2012.
"So, IAF should have its first Tejas squadron of 20 fighters by 2014-15. Even Swedish Gripen fighter's developmental cost was around Rs 12,640 crore,'' said an official. India, however, is now going in for foreign engines to power even the Tejas Mark-II version after the indigenous Kaveri engine failed to pass muster after 20 years of development at a cost of Rs 2,839 crore. Consequently, while the first 20 Tejas will be powered by the American GE-404 engines, the hunt is on for new more powerful engines for the next six Tejas Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each). The Rs 13,000-crore mark for the LCA project is breached even if the Kaveri fiasco is kept aside. For one, the FSED Phase-I, which finished in March 2004, cost Rs 2,188 crore. The Phase-II, which was to be completed by December 2008 at a cost of Rs 3,301 crore, will now get over in December 2012, with additional funds of Rs 2,475 crore. Moreover, in November last year, the government "accorded'' sanction for "continuing FSED of LCA till December 2018, with an estimated additional cost of Rs 5,302 crore''. Amid all this, IAF is keeping its fingers crossed, grappling as it is with a free-fall in the number of its fighter squadrons, down to just 32 from a sanctioned strength of 39.5.

Tejas LCA project to cost more than Rs 13,000 crore over 35 years - India - The Times of India

 

[pandamonkey]

I find it very interesting that LCA's development cost will soon exceed the Swedish Griphen. Will the LCA be as good as the griphen even though it development cost will be more than the Griphen??????

"Even Swedish Gripen fighter's developmental cost was around Rs 12,640 crore,'' said an official."
"The Rs 13,000-crore mark for the LCA project is breached even if the Kaveri fiasco is kept aside."

 

[vimki]

I find it very interesting that LCA's development cost will soon exceed the Swedish Griphen. Will the LCA be as good as the griphen even though it development cost will be more than the Griphen??????

"Even Swedish Gripen fighter's developmental cost was around Rs 12,640 crore,'' said an official."
"The Rs 13,000-crore mark for the LCA project is breached even if the Kaveri fiasco is kept aside."

Gripen is not the first aircraft manufactured by Sweden, they had a very good experience in the aviation industry. So there is nothing surprising that HAL is spending more money&time on LCA for development than Saab on Gripen. Also Saab got a great support from the West & US on various equipments & technology used in Gripen. I am not saying all the parts in LCA are home grown but we started to receive the support only from 2000s.

Also for your info, Even Gripen doesn't use their own engine.

 

[pandamonkey]

I thought the LCA was gona have a homegrown engine, but according to the article they are gona use a america engine then some other one for later models

 

[Arjun MBT]

I thought the LCA was gona have a homegrown engine, but according to the article they are gona use a america engine then some other one for later models

Kaveri engine is going to have test flight next month, Others are just substitutes for kaveri engine

 

[pandamonkey]

don't mean to be rude but did you read the article i posted????????????
"Kaveri engine is going to have test flight next month"

From the article, "India, however, is now going in for foreign engines to power even the Tejas Mark-II version after the indigenous Kaveri engine failed to pass muster after 20 years of development at a cost of Rs 2,839 crore. Consequently, while the first 20 Tejas will be powered by the American GE-404 engines, the hunt is on for new more powerful engines for the next six Tejas Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each)."
again to highlight my point, from the article "indigenous Kaveri engine failed to pass muster after 20 years of development at a cost of Rs 2,839 crore."

 

[Arjun MBT]

don't mean to be rude but did you read the article i posted????????????
"Kaveri engine is going to have test flight next month"

From the article, "India, however, is now going in for foreign engines to power even the Tejas Mark-II version after the indigenous Kaveri engine failed to pass muster after 20 years of development at a cost of Rs 2,839 crore. Consequently, while the first 20 Tejas will be powered by the American GE-404 engines, the hunt is on for new more powerful engines for the next six Tejas Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each)."
again to highlight my point, from the article "indigenous Kaveri engine failed to pass muster after 20 years of development at a cost of Rs 2,839 crore."

R&D takes time buddy, its not easy, India is doing it for the first time, you cant expect us to make an engine which gives 70kn of thrust and 100kn thrust after full after burners the very first time we develop, We have to first develop the technology, Its not as easy as you think buddy.... kaveri Engine would Be powering our aircrafts soon, its already undergoing altitude tests...

 

[pandamonkey]

Again don't mean to be rude but did you read my last commet???????????????????????
I read the article on april 16. i think thats today. It says the kaveri engine faileddddddddd. Here is another article. Its from a day earlier but talks about the same report.
NEW DELHI: A Parliamentary panel on Thursday slammed the DRDO and the IAF for the 27-year delay and the cost overruns in their Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, describing it as "a very sorry state of affairs".

It also asked the defence ministry to commission the indigenous fighter jet Tejas expeditiously after obtaining its operational clearance within the stipulated time-frame and without cost escalation by taking all desired steps.

"The committee concludes that this is a very sorry state of affairs. Even when 27 years have passed since LCA was sanctioned, it has still to see the light of the day," the parliamentary committee on defence said in its latest report tabled in Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha.

"All desired steps should be taken so that Tejas is operational by the stipulated timeframe and there is no further cost escalation," the report said.

The LCA, sanctioned in 1983 at a cost of Rs 560 crore, is slated to be ready for initial operational clearance only by December this year.

The first phase of the project was completed in April 2004 at a cost of Rs 2,188 crore.

The sanctioned cost of the second phase was Rs 3,301.87 crore and the originally scheduled date of completion was December 31, 2008.

The defence ministry informed the panel that in November 2009 further sanction was accorded for continuing full scale engineering development of LCA, touted to be a fourth generation fighter jet, till December 2018 with an additional cost of Rs 5,302.98 crore.

The committee noted that the engine of Tejas was running into serious problem and the option of either importing an engine or persisting with the indigenously developed Kaveri engine was finally decided upon by favouring a foreign engine for which tenders had been issued.

"The committee emphasises that the various problems being faced with Tejas engine should be sorted out expeditiously," the report said.
DRDO, IAF rapped for time, cost overruns in LCA project - India - The Times of India

 

[pandamonkey]

Note at the ner end of the article it cearly states what iam talking about.
" "The committee emphasises that the various problems being faced with Tejas engine should be sorted out expeditiously," the report said."
And above that line it says that a tender for FOREIGN engines has been issued because of the Kaveris problems.
"The committee noted that the engine of Tejas was running into serious problem and the option of either importing an engine or persisting with the indigenously developed Kaveri engine was finally decided upon by favouring a foreign engine for which tenders had been issued."

Why would the issue tenders for foreign engines if the Kaveri wasn't even tested yet. Your point about the kaveri being test next mont is irevelant, because this article and the one before this clearly say that the kaveri is a failer and is being replaced by a foreign engine.

Sorry if i sound rude.

 

[Arjun MBT]

Kaveri engine has indeed failed, But Its currently Undergoing altitude trials in russia and Will have trials next month , then we will come to know as how far of a success was it, But Again I repeat, R&D takes time.... We are researching and No matter if money takes, Our scientists have an Idea now, Money should be spent in areas like this...

Lets wait for the result next month

Here is the link

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/62518/india-flight-test-first-indigenous.html

http://indiadefenceonline.com/1817/gtre-to-test-kaveri-engine/
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_india-s-to-flight-test-first-indigenous-jet-engine-next-month_1368396
http://article.wn.com/view/2010/04/07/Kaveri_engine_flight_test_in_May/
http://www.zeenews.com/news617197.html
http://www.newkerala.com/news/fullnews-84985.html

Hope I made it clear to you

 

[pandamonkey]

mmmmmm. iam confused. one indian news site says the Kaveri is a failer and the other that its being tested next month. One says that its being droped for a foreign engine and the other thats its for the LCA. And isn't the kaveri suppose to be homemade??? why is it being tested in russia???

 

[Arjun MBT]

mmmmmm. iam confused. one indian news site says the Kaveri is a failer and the other that its being tested next month. One says that its being droped for a foreign engine and the other thats its for the LCA. And isn't the kaveri suppose to be homemade??? why is it being tested in russia???

Because we do not have High altitude test facility here, So we have taken it to Russia for High altitude testing of Kaveri engine

 

[holysaturn]

mmmmmm. iam confused. one indian news site says the Kaveri is a failer and the other that its being tested next month. One says that its being droped for a foreign engine and the other thats its for the LCA. And isn't the kaveri suppose to be homemade??? why is it being tested in russia???

the plan was to use the gtre-snecma kaveri but as it wud take atleast 5 years the iaf wud go for a proven engine(ej-200 or ge-414).....the upgraded kaveri wud be used for future versions and the NGFA(MCA).......meanwhile the airworthyness of the existing kaveri will be tested in russia and future developments(like eco core) will go into it later(if an agreement is signed)........kaveri-I has enough thrust to power lca trainer,ucav,the kabini core will be modified to power HALE uavs.

 

[pandamonkey]

well i guess even a failed kaveri is better what we in pakistan have. we have never even attempted to make one. You learn alot more from failed dreams then successful ones.