HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Mrityunjay Rai]

The detail shown by HAL on LCA at Aero India certainly leaves nothing to be desired.
1; Take off distance...............1300 M
2: Landing distance................1700 M
3: Combat Radius.................. 300 KM

(IMG:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Dc2Wx4jR9F8/S36pQgBKyyI/AAAAAAAABOk/iYPLfQ-UkfE/s1600/CIMG2779.JPG)


(IMG:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Dc2Wx4jR9F8/SxKldW3HK_I/AAAAAAAAAoU/nNbiDdLtOcA/s1600/Image050.jpg)

And here is reply for your desire................


Specifications (HAL Tejas)
Three view of the Tejas

General characteristics

* Crew: 1
* Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
* Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
* Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
* Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
* Empty weight: 5680kg[64] (14,330 lb)
* Loaded weight: 9,500 kg (20,945 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 15,500 kg (31,967 lb)
* Internal fuel capacity: 3000 liters
* External fuel capacity: 5×800 liter tanks or 3×1,200 liter tanks, totaling 4,000/3,600 liters

Performance

* Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 (2,376+ km/h at high altitude) at 15,000 m
* Range: 3000 km (1,840 mi (without refueling))
* Service ceiling: 16,500 m (54,000 ft (engine re-igniter safely capable))
* Wing loading: 221.4 kg/m² (45.35 lb/ft²)

 

[LCA Tejas]

Navy LCA

 

[sudhir007]

lca Picture in Aero India 2009 ej200 with tvc engine

 

[sancho]

lca Picture in Aero India 2009 ej200 with tvc engine

Sudhir, are these pictures from Eurojet, or from HAL?

 

[sudhir007]

Sudhir, are these pictures from Eurojet, or from HAL?

not too sure but i think it is from eurojet camp which is in AI-09. They just want to show engine ability it will cut down the take of distance and also i dnt think the ge-414 provide us tvc and super-cruiser.

 

[sancho]

not too sure but i think it is from eurojet camp which is in AI-09. They just want to show engine ability it will cut down the take of distance and also i dnt think the ge-414 provide us tvc and super-cruiser.

GE had developed TVC too for an F16 prototype if I'm not wrong, but not with this engine, SC is a different point, because keep in mind the the Gripen NG with the same GE 414 proved SC too. However, I don't think the engine alone will be the reason for this capability, also the aerodynamic design and the T/W ratio possibly (I'm not a pro in this, so please correct me if I'm wrong). But the weight problem of LCA MK1 seems to be solved and is now on the same level as Gripen C/D, so no matter which engine we choose SC could be possible.
Personally, with all infos that was available about the engines, their capabilities and moreover the ease of integration, it would be surprising if the EJ 200 wouldn't be chosen. It offers clearly more advantages, with only costs as a downer.

Back to the pic, I also expect that it is from EJ, because it would be surprising if HAL advertise with this capability, before the engine evaluation is finished. Just asked for a confirmation of you if possible.

Btw, I answered to your question regarding C17 and An 124, but the thread was moved to the IAF discussion thread.

 

[sudhir007]

GE had developed TVC too for an F16 prototype if I'm not wrong, but not with this engine, SC is a different point, because keep in mind the the Gripen NG with the same GE 414 proved SC too. However, I don't think the engine alone will be the reason for this capability, also the aerodynamic design and the T/W ratio possibly (I'm not a pro in this, so please correct me if I'm wrong). But the weight problem of LCA MK1 seems to be solved and is now on the same level as Gripen C/D, so no matter which engine we choose SC could be possible.
Personally, with all infos that was available about the engines, their capabilities and moreover the ease of integration, it would be surprising if the EJ 200 wouldn't be chosen. It offers clearly more advantages, with only costs as a downer.

Back to the pic, I also expect that it is from EJ, because it would be surprising if HAL advertise with this capability, before the engine evaluation is finished. Just asked for a confirmation of you if possible.

Btw, I answered to your question regarding C17 and An 124, but the thread was moved to the IAF discussion thread.

I think only 2 reason if ej200 not chosen
1. the goi right now want to guy usa product u can see in some resent buying
2. and second is the price.

 

[jha]

so now we will be getting super-cruise with LCA ....this plane will be one kick@$$ plane when inducted..
@sancho and sudhir..
carry on guys ...yours is the discussion for which i look into this thread...

 

[LCA Tejas]

LCA with super cruise?? Come on guys??? hey is that true?? LCA cannot supercruise. We will need to redesign the air intakes... I dunno if am right, but can it?? really?

 

[jha]

i thought just more powerful engine and a little alteration in air intakes would do the job....waiting foe experts like sancho to clear the matter..

 

[sudhir007]

ej200

Type- Twin shaft turbofan
Fan- 3 stage
Fan compression ratio- 4.2:1
Compressor- 5-stage
Total compression ratio- 26:1
HP turbine- Single stage
LP turbine- Single stage
Combustion chamber- Annular
Afterburner/Nozzle- Multi-stage/Convergent/Divergent
Bypass ratio- 0.4:1
Thrust:weight ratio- ca. 10:1
Airflow- 75/77 kg/s
Max. thrust with afterburner- 90kN (20,000 lbf)
Max. thrust without afterburner- 60kN (13,500 lbf)
Specific fuel consumption (dry)- 21-23 g/kNs
Specific fuel consumption (with afterburner)- 47-49 g/kNs
Weight- ca. 1,000kg
Length- 4 m
Diameter (fan)- 737m

EUROJET has successfully delivered all 363 Tranche 1 production engines by the end 2006. Production engines have achieved 50,000 EFH (Engine FlyingHours) in the four-nation Air Forces and Instrumented Production Aircraft(IPA) in June 2007. First Tranche 2 production engines are currently being delivered.

Digital Engine Control and Monitoring Unit

The EJ200 engine powering the Eurofighter Typhoon features from Tranche II a further step in engine control and monitoring technology, integrating all elements necessary for Digital Electronic engine Control and Monitoring into a single unit (known as DECMU) as well as incorporating potential for future enhancements. The EJ200 DECMU combines the functionality of the engine mountedDigital Electronic Control Unit (DECU) and the aircraft mounted Engine Monitoring Unit (EMU).

Control System element

The full authority Digital Electronic Control and Monitoring Unit is engine-mounted for accessibility and is a twin-lane, fault tolerant system linked to the aircraft flight control system. It constantly monitors the functional status of the engine and allows precise, responsive and safe control at all times.

The digital electronic control system as part of the electronic sub system processes all inputs from the engine sensor data and aircraft inputs, in order to control the hydro-mechanical elements of the system. All signal conditioning of the engine sensors used for control purposes is carried out by the DECMU.

Monitoring System element

The health monitoring system element of DECMU includes features such as individual component life usage, continuous vibration & oil debris monitoring, and event reporting. The whole engine is designed for on-condition maintenance and low life cycle costs, which is supported by this technology.

Data is collected, stored and processed on-aircraft within the DECMU to produce information on the status of engine life usage, condition, incident status & testability. The data is downloaded to a Ground Support System (GSS) after flight for further detailed analysis.

DECMU Benefits

The EJ200 engine enhancement for Tranche II in the form of the Digital Electronic Control and Monitoring Unit provides benefits in terms of cost, mass and reliability.

The DECMU system has been developed by the European Military Engine Consortium EUROJET Turbo GmbH, led by the German company MTU Aero Engines in partnership with AVIO, ITP, Rolls-Royce and European hardware suppliers.

With this advanced and innovative Control and Monitoring System the EJ200 powerplant sets new standards in military engine technology, supporting both current and future capabilities of the Eurofighter Typhoon.

 

[sudhir007]

old new but if you are ej200 fan.....

IAF wants EJ200 engines for Tejas, but..
Bangalore: The geopolitical factor that determined state-owned Air India's choice of commercial aircraft in the mid-2000 may come into play again in the Indian government's selection of engines for its indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas.

In 2005, when the national carrier's order for 50 aircraft worth $6 billion went to US aerospace company Boeing, its French rival Airbus Industrie had said it was the "geopolitical factor" that had clinched the deal.

DNA Money has learned that Indian Air Force (IAF), which is the user of LCA Tejas, has in its recommendations to the Ministry of Defence favoured the purchase of European aerospace company Eurojet's EJ200 over US aerospace firm General Electric's F-414. These are the only two companies that have bid for the $750 million order for 99 engines.
An IAF official, who did not want to be named, said IAF want the EJ200 to power Tejas so that there is no delay in building the LCA with enhanced power. The government is currently carrying out technical evaluation of the two military aircraft engines.

"The thrust of EJ200 (about 85+ kilonewton) may be slightly lower than F-414 (95+ kilonewton), but it will easily fit into the LCA. And if the weight is reduced, its (EJ200) power will be adequate. Thus, we will not have to change the design of the fuselage," the official said.

The official said since the F-414 was a "fatter" engine with a bigger diameter, it could require redesigning of fuselage. "And if that happens, then all the test flights, many of which have already been carried out, will have to be repeated and the whole programme could get considerably delayed. It will also escalate the cost."

He, however, said the price of the European engine was higher than the American engine. "Generally, aircraft equipments bought from US are cheaper because of their scale of production. European manufacturers do not have the same volumes and so tend to be expensive," he said.

But even though the IAF is pitching for the EJ200, the final decision would be made by the Ministry of Defence with inputs from the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) -- the state-owned company that is manufacturing the aircraft -- and Defence Research and Development Organisation.

A defence analyst, who did not want to be named, said looking at direction of the winds in the Indo-US relationship, which is very positive at the moment, the aircraft engine deal could well fall in the lap of the US aerospace company.

He said the order for F-414 would also work in favour of HAL and ADA. "It (F-414 order) will mean more money and work for both of them (HAL and ADA) as the aircraft require redesigning. This way we will get more business. Everybody is trying to push their own agenda," he said. "My guess is that F-414 will be thrust upon the IAF despite the fact that they want the EJ200 because Americans are pushing hard for it."

The two major aircraft and engine manufacturers are aggressively lobbying for the engine deal because its outcome will have a bearing on India's order for 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) worth over $10 billion.

"The government is likely to go for aircraft, which is powered by the same engine as Tejas. One argument is that if these fighter jets come in time, then any delay in the Tejas programme will have less significance on the IAF," said the analyst.

 

[KEETARP]

EU2000 engine definitely has capability to provide sustained supercruise
Just by looking at specs of EU2000 engine-
Max thrust without afterburner close to 65KN in my opinion will bring T/W ratio of TEJAS close to it being mach 1 in perfect clean state

Whether this supercruise will have fuel fraction/fuel efficiency acceptable according to standard is to be seen.
If fuel efficiency is absent , there is no point of supercruise.

But with lesser payload , it can have fuel fraction close to 30% which will allow it to supercruise, internal fuel load if somehow can be brought up will surely get better ratio.

Compression ratio 26:1 is quite good enough, only problem is Air flow , if air intakes of tejas can give a sustained O2 xygen to allow modular bladed engine have this compresssion ratio , thrust can be used to act as (virtual Ramjet) it will go supersonic without extra fuel and afterburner.

This is my thinking - I am no expert , and above all a doctor , so may be some technical blunders may be there.
But whatever i wrote - Are bits and pieces i gathered while talking to my Batch mates in Pune-Lohegaon air base ( They flew the first TVC equipped afterburner)

 

[Dark Angel]

Point 1, virtually everyone I've spoken to at the ADA and air force believe that the engine that meets the new thrust compliance bar and fits the Tejas with the least amount of engineering, fabrication or modification will be selected. Both engines say they meet the maximum thrust requirements demanded by the IAF. The American F-414-400 is physically similar, if not identical, to the F-404 that currently powers the Tejas, and is, remember, a technological derivative of the same. Therefore, it stands to reason that ADA believes the people at GE when they say the F-414 is a spot-on fit without any tinkering. Similarly, based on information gleaned from the feasibility study, Eurojet boss Hartmut Tenter told Flightglobal earlier this year that "the EJ200 fits perfectly into the same hole." Ok.

Point 2, weight issues, which won't be taken, um, lightly. The F-414-400, at 1,109-kgs is approximately 120-kgs heavier than the EJ200.

Point 3, the F-414-400 has a stated maximum thrust of 98kN, more than the EJ200's 90kN, even though both technically meet the IAF's requirement for a 90kN turbofan. Will the extra thrust that the American engine apparently offers be enough reason to ignore the 120-kgs of additional weight that it brings to the competition? Maybe.

Point 4, the folks at ADA have had a great amount of experience working with GE on the LCA programme, so the American firm is well-versed with the rough and tumble of the IAF's qualitative requirements. Working with a firm that is already "in the picture" about your requirements is an intangible consideration, but a consideration nevertheless.

Point 5, if the IAF's mantra for lowering inventory type is taken even a bit seriously, then the outcome of this competition could bring a great amount of influence to bear on the far more lucrative MMRCA competition. This alone could give the government a huge amount of leverage either way, though it could also slow things down significantly to the detriment of the LCA programme.



LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Which Engine Will Power The Tejas?

 

[nad1]

Can someone please post the chronology of LCA's development?
Thanks!

lca lca ---- tejas ----