HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[sancho]

But it doesn't prevent them to make WS-10A called successful even it required hauling after 30 hrs against western standard of 300 hrs. ? so chinese called in successful and now will you call WS-10A a complete failure?

I wouldn't call it a success yet, but it's far away from beeing a failure like Kaveri engine, because their engines were developed and integrated into the fighters they were aimed at, which is a crucial difference!
WS 13 engine for example was integrated into JF 17 and is officially given with 86.37kN which is just slightly better than the RD93, although not at the aimed level so far. However, it could be used for the fighter if required and the further developments and upgrades can bring it to development goals.
Compare that to Kaveri:

- far away from development goals
- is not useful for LCA
- offers no scope to achieve the aimed thrust, which is why even DRDO itself prefers a co-development

But the key difference of their and our engine developments is, that they were smart enough to let none of their fighters beeing dependent of the indigenous engines! They used proven AL 31 and RD 93 engines from the start and that's why J10A, J11A and JF 17 Block 1 are inducted into operational service and why LCA is not!

Again, I am all for indigenous developments, but with some logical sense and not blinded by pride ! ! !

 

[sancho]

What really intrigues moi in all of this is the standards of the PAF. JF-17 being heavier than LCA and its Russian engine producing less thrust than the LCA's American engine, clearly has less thrust to weight ratio than LCA. But still PAF is ok with it while IAF needs nothing more than a new version of the fighter. Is IAF spoiled by SU-30MKI & MMRCA(Rafale), or is PAF status so bad it has been reduced to accepting Chinese Junks no matter what the jet's performance. Who knows. Maybe both.

The general development goals of both fighters might be the same (improving indigenous aero industry, less dependance on foreign techs and possible sanctions, a low end baseline fighter), but the technical requirements set up by the forces and the companies behind it are pretty different. That's why LCA has a higher potential, with highly capable fighters like MKI, M2K and Mig 29s already in the fleet and development basically aimed on western standards, which is one reason why Russian techs and help were often rejected. But at the end they (mainly China) showed us, that doing it simple and easy, sometimes is the better way than aiming too high!

When inducted, LCA will be a good addition for Indian forces and an important step for Indian industry, just like JF 17 already is in Pakistan, so both will meet their main aims, while we have to admit that certain parts were failures.

 

[SQ8]

The analysis is ok.. again.. outdated..as Sancho pointed out.
Please keep the JF-17 out of this.. since it usually will boil down to an ego match between fanboys.

 

[nomi007]

Old article written by Harry, most known for his articles in ACIG. Yea, he died a few years back.

Some specs in that article needs to be updated, one which caught my eye was the empty weight. LCA has gotten fatter by over a tonne! Still lighter than JF-17 by a few kilos, but still has an anemic thrust to weight ratio due to the massive weight gain, according to the IAF. Even the superior thrust of American engine failed to increase the thrust to weight ratio to impress the IAF. So a newer engine was needed but it was a bigger engine than the previous one, and LCA has to be slightly re-designed. Now redesigned LCA is to be known as Tejas Mark-2. The rest all is history.
How one parameter deficiency leads to a snowball effect is clearly visible here.

What really intrigues moi in all of this is the standards of the PAF. JF-17 being heavier than LCA and its Russian engine producing less thrust than the LCA's American engine, clearly has less thrust to weight ratio than LCA. But still PAF is ok with it while IAF needs nothing more than a new version of the fighter. Is IAF spoiled by SU-30MKI & MMRCA(Rafale), or is PAF status so bad it has been reduced to accepting Chinese Junks no matter what the jet's performance. Who knows. Maybe both.

90% indian airforce airforce base on russian jets
its mean they are junk

The analysis is ok.. again.. outdated..as Sancho pointed out.
Please keep the JF-17 out of this.. since it usually will boil down to an ego match between fanboys.

oscar sir kindly warn every 1 donot use pakistan in this thread

 

[foxbat]

90% indian airforce airforce base on russian jets
its mean they are junk

Is RD 93 a Russian Engine ??

 

[Dash]

The general development goals of both fighters might be the same (improving indigenous aero industry, less dependance on foreign techs and possible sanctions, a low end baseline fighter), but the technical requirements set up by the forces and the companies behind it are pretty different. That's why LCA has a higher potential, with highly capable fighters like MKI, M2K and Mig 29s already in the fleet and development basically aimed on western standards, which is one reason why Russian techs and help were often rejected. But at the end they (mainly China) showed us, that doing it simple and easy, sometimes is the better way than aiming too high!

When inducted, LCA will be a good addition for Indian forces and an important step for Indian industry, just like JF 17 already is in Pakistan, so both will meet their main aims, while we have to admit that certain parts were failures.

The LCA was introduced with a very high expectation from begining. Like you know both Engine and the plane were aiamed to give us both the tech-beds. Kaveri program whould have been de-linked from LCA long back and GE could have come much earlier and there you go with an incredible reliable fighter.

I will mostly blame the co-developement of Kaveri along side LCA was the biggest drawback. LCA minus the engine has already donated way toom much to our aero-space industry, so that aiming too high has ben so far successfull for LCA, no matter who says what. But Not Kaveri.

90% indian airforce airforce base on russian jets
its mean they are junk

Shall we go for a ride with Engine's made by Russia? and then if we decide its junk then from next time I will call it junk too. Commenting without knowing is nothing but hatred fueld ignorance.

 

[SQ8]

Is RD 93 a Russian Engine ??

He was rhetorical..
probably meant that if the person in question was declaring a certain Russian product junk.. considering that most Indian A/C use Russian engines .. does this imply that they are junk too?
Funny how low level jabs of immaturity emanate from those with fragile ego's all the time.

 

[Skull and Bones]

90% indian airforce airforce base on russian jets
its mean they are junk

But their engines are good, really.

 

[AADHAAR]

Kaveri is an achievement which needs to be built upon.

Let's ignore the chinese .... they are hardly anybody worth comparing. They can produce WS-10A .... take it on a single engine fighter without sufficient ground testing ... ignore the crashes.

India's approach has been more in sync with American, French and Israeli development cycle.

We already produce AL-31 engines in India, but Russian engines are not what we benchmark to.

And the engines in particular (and general development thinking for other products) is resposible for high availability of Mirage-2000s (compared to russian fighters) and the capabilities of C-130 transports compared to IL-76.

GTRE is on the right track .... Kaveri has already taken to the air, powering IL-76 aircraft in test flights. The Phase-I trials have been successful.

With all the useful data generated, Kaveri is being upgraded.

If you say Kaveri is a failure ... you will also keep lamenting that GSLV is also a failure. Both conclusions are wrong.

Even the first flight of PSLV failed .. but gave vital data to correct the computer errors. And now see how the PSLV program has matured.

Look at Arjun ....

Similarly, Kaveri is also on the right track to be successful.

 

[gubbi]

Then why is India dying for 126 AMCA from France? Question for the genious?

LCA = designed as a point defense and interceptor aircraft. To replace the aging interceptors in IAF inventory - the mighty MiG 21s

Rafale = a multirole aircraft with deep strike capabilities. Bought to replace the old and end of life Jaguars and MiG-27 deep strike aircrafts in IAF inventory.


Notice the difference? If you knew anything about the role of different aircraft you wouldnt be asking such a lame question. That goes to the bot army as well.

 

[killerx]

so many story of LCA yar when wil it come really only LCA this and that

 

[OrionHunter]

Then why is India dying for 126 AMCA from France? Question for the genious?

Answer for the eggheads:

The devil is in the detail. That is, the ROLES of the aircraft in question.

Rafale - An omnirole fighter with semi-stealth capabilities. The Rafale is a multirole combat aircraft, capable of simultaneously undertaking air supremacy, interdiction, reconnaissance, and airborne nuclear deterrent missions.

Tejas - Mainly started as a research project, as a technology demonstrator. However, considering its development of cutting edge technology over the years, it has morphed into a 4.5 gen air superiority fighter aircraft with a secondary ground-attack role.

The experience gained from the Tejas has helped in the design of the under-development indigenous 5th Gen AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft). This one....

Cheers!

 

[foxbat]

He was rhetorical..
probably meant that if the person in question was declaring a certain Russian product junk.. considering that most Indian A/C use Russian engines .. does this imply that they are junk too?
Funny how low level jabs of immaturity emanate from those with fragile ego's all the time.

Rhetorical questions dont come across like statements..

What is funny though is how comments from Pakistani members always find hidden deep meanings where as responses from Indians end up being immature To me that speaks of fragile egos somewhere else

 

[DrSomnath999]

Old article written by Harry, most known for his articles in ACIG. Yea, he died a few years back.

Some specs in that article needs to be updated, one which caught my eye was the empty weight. LCA has gotten fatter by over a tonne! Still lighter than JF-17 by a few kilos, but still has an anemic thrust to weight ratio due to the massive weight gain, according to the IAF. Even the superior thrust of American engine failed to increase the thrust to weight ratio to impress the IAF. So a newer engine was needed but it was a bigger engine than the previous one, and LCA has to be slightly re-designed. Now redesigned LCA is to be known as Tejas Mark-2. The rest all is history.
How one parameter deficiency leads to a snowball effect is clearly visible here.

well 1st of all this article is a very old article but way ahead of it's time as it has described so vividly about LCA .Still no one has
explained LCA not so detaily as he did .
And ur wrong that "How one parameter deficiency leads to a snowball effect is clearly visible here" as LCA mark1 was a intial
part of LCA programme & LCA mark 2 was it next stage of it's evolution stage
like
RAFALE has F1 , F2 & F3 standard in which all stages were superior in technology & capabilty as compare to it's predecessor

What really intrigues moi in all of this is the standards of the PAF. JF-17 being heavier than LCA and its Russian engine producing less thrust than the LCA's American engine, clearly has less thrust to weight ratio than LCA. But still PAF is ok with it while IAF needs nothing more than a new version of the fighter. Is IAF spoiled by SU-30MKI & MMRCA(Rafale), or is PAF status so bad it has been reduced to accepting Chinese Junks no matter what the jet's performance. Who knows. Maybe both.

for god 's sake dont compare JF 17 here as it would turn out another LCA bash thread so plz leave it

REGARDS

so many story of LCA yar when wil it come really only LCA this and that

plz dont worry pal just give me ur phone number i would personally call u when they induct it .Happy now

 

[Storm Force]

LCA will go down as a MASSIVE MILE STONE in indian indengious fighter aircraft history.

THE STRUCTURE is in place to build mk2 & if neded mk3 TEJAS. then TO MOVE ONTO AMCA and even UCAV.

For certain the way the indian GDP and military budget is growing INDIANS will have the funds (billons $$) to forfill these projects

TO SUMMARISE

lca rcs will be equal to 1/3rd of a current early to mid 4th gen fighter ie mirage2000/F16

will carry USA engine

ISRAELI indian radar

INDIAN & ISRAELI weapons

Resemble a cross between a gripen & mirage 2000