HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[blain2]

My other question - which is Pakistans frontline fighter right now ? And when you say F-16 please mention the correct model also.

Every PAF aircraft is a frontline fighter. It just depends on what role its being used in. In certain cases, the Mirage is a better strike aircraft than even the F-16.

Overall, F-16 A/B blk 15 OCU is definitely the one true Multi-role platform for the PAF.
Mirage III (ROSE - Grifo M3) are also very decent interceptors (Radars in the same class as the blk 15 F-16s).
For day/night strike, ROSE II (FLIR) equipped Mirages are the key assets.
For point defence, F-7PGs and F-7Ps.

 

[nitesh]

» India to invite bids for indigenous LCA engines - Thaindian News

India to invite bids for indigenous LCA engines

June 4th, 2008 - 2:47 pm ICT by IANS - Email This Post


New Delhi, June 4 (IANS) India will soon invite bids for developing a more powerful engine for the homemade Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas as the development of the indigenous Kaveri engine is yet to be completed, an official said Wednesday. Tejas, meant to replace the ageing MiG-21 fleet of the Indian Air Force (IAF), is currently under development in Bangalore for the last couple of decades.

“A committee has been constituted and it is in talks with international players for developing a more powerful engine for Tejas. A RFP (request for proposal) in this regard will soon be issued,” an official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) told IANS on condition of anonymity.

The Aeronautical Development Agency of the DRDO is developing the supersonic combat aircraft along with the Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL).

“Currently, two international companies are in the fray but the contract will be issued through due process and the company will be required to develop the engine under a joint venture with India,” the official told IANS.

The IAF has placed an order for 20 Tejas lightweight multi-role planes, India’s second indigenous fighter aircraft, and is inclined to increase the number to 40.

Earlier, it was planned that a turbofan engine, the GTX-35VS Kaveri, being developed by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), would be fitted to the production aircraft. But delays in development led to the purchase of General Electric engines, which even got through rough weather due to the sanction imposed post 1998 nuclear tests.

The IAF had expressed reservations about the GE engines as it increased the plane’s weight from 8,000 kg to 10,000 kg. This delayed the production of the aircraft and it will be ready for delivery only by 2011.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Well I would suggest that the IAF has been told to Support the DRDO's efforts and therefore has been told to make the purchase.

Interesting and this is what OOE had to say

Quote:Originally Posted by Neo
Sir,
IAF drew the ASR and the concept of Tejas, what more could she have done?

OOE
Same thing the Chinese did to you. Froze the specs and deliver as-is whether you liked it or not.

And considering the number of planes required Its a small order. And excuses such as "It's not in production yet" do not wash,

Keys LCA has not even be tested with a radar and has not undergone full weaponisation and considering this 20+20 is a big order in the initial stages. The order is low in initial stages because the plane has not been fully developed and not because it is a design failure. Even PAF has ordered 50 J17 for the initial order since there is no clear idea as to future developments of the plane.

Cheers

 

[Keysersoze]

Interesting and this is what OOE had to say




Keys LCA has not even be tested with a radar and has not undergone full weaponisation and considering this 20+20 is a big order in the initial stages. The order is low in initial stages because the plane has not been fully developed and not because it is a design failure. Even PAF has ordered 50 J17 for the initial order since there is no clear idea as to future developments of the plane.

Cheers

Dude There is a clear difference between the two orders. there has been a statement that there will be a order of 250 in two blocks. With additional improvements in airframe,engine and avionics in BLK 2, SO whilst weaponisation of the second blk has not yet gone through there will be a definite purchase.

Incidentally What OOe is referring to (as far as I am concerned) is something called "feature creep". If you leave the options constantly open they will creep as the IAF decides it wants the newest toys available. Thus the plane is still not here yet.

Now tell me how much confidence does the IAF have, to only order 20 aircraft with the option of 20 more? Weaponisation or not they are obviously not overwhelmed with the airframe (avionics and weapons can be changed later if needed)

 

[nitesh]

outlookindia.com | wired

Already running 10 years behind schedule, the country's prestigious Light Combat Aircraft Tejas would be carrying only "limited weaponry" when they get ready by 2012.

As the first of these indigenous fighters strive for initial operational clearance in 2010, experts have come up with sudden complications that Tejas' US aeroengine GE404 does not have requisite thrust to give it power to carry its full load of weaponry, highly-placed sources said.

Tejas, on induction, were slated to be armed with air-to-air beyond visual range missiles, air-to-ground missiles and full complement of heavy and medium precision and cluster bombs.

But during the recent weaponisation of the fighters, experts have found out that Tejas, with the present engines, cannot carry its full load of armaments including crucial missiles.

"LCA's present GE404 engines give a thrust of only 80-85 kilo newtons, while the weapon payload of the fighter needs a thrust of 95-100 kilo newtons," a source said, indicating the initial 40 Tejas fighters of the IAF, when inducted, would only be "weaponised to a limited role".

India's defence planners have already started negotiations with US company General Electric, Snecma of France, Rolls Royce of UK, European defence consortium EADS and Russian NPS-Saturn on "co-development" or "technology transfer" of a more powerful aeroengine for Tejas.

"As things stand, there is no way that the initial batch of Tejas fighters would be powered by any other engine than GE404," the source said.

Under an agreement signed with Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), the first 40 LCA fighters are to be powered by GE404.

The American company makes more powerful GE414 engines, which power the US Air Force's mainstay F-16 fighting falcons, the European consortium also makes EZ-200 engines for the Eurofighters.

Other companies who have the capability to make such engines are Rolls Royce, Snecma and NPS-Saturn.

But the official said that future Tejas fighters would be fitted with more powerful engines to give them capability to carry full complement of strategic weapons.


Sources said the final clearance for the Tejas would come by 2012 and Air Force would be in a position to operate LCA squadrons by 2015-16.

I had made some points in BOLD now what is "crucial missiles" and "strategic weapons". Can some body please elaborate.

 

[Keysersoze]

Hmmm well crucial and strategic missiles can have so many meanings depending upon context. I would assume they would mean longer range missiles such as AMRAAM type missiles.
Strategic could possibly mean heavier munitions such as bombs

 

[vish]

Guys, we are actually drawing conclusions from Indian media reports pertaining to defense matters; a big no-no.

The LCA has evolved from a point-defense fighter to a light multi-role combat aircraft, much akin to mini-MRCA. This is what the IAF wants; they want the LCA to be more than just a point-defense fighter. The DRDO, HAL, ADA, etc, are having a hard time adjusting to these design modifications. Though there are goof-ups, be rest assured that when the LCA (with better engines) does get inducted, it will be more than capable of holding its own.

 

[nitesh]

IndianExpress.com :: LCA needs new engine to be worthy of combat

LCA needs new engine to be worthy of combat
Express News Service
Posted online: Friday, June 06, 2008 at 2222 hrs

New Delhi, June 5: The home-grown Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which is set to be inducted in 2011, will not be able to fly with a full-weapon load and will also need a new engine—instead of the Kaveri engine—to meet the minimum requirements for fighter aircraft drawn up by the Indian Air Force (IAF). To accommodate these modifications, the planes will also need to be redesigned.

In what could be a deathblow to the indigenous fighter programme, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has conceded that the first lot of planes to enter service will not only carry a limited load of weapons but will also have a restricted ‘angle of attack’, making them unsuitable for aerial combat.
The primary reason for the problem is the lower thrust provided by the GE 404 engine powering the aircraft. While plans to develop a newer engine are under discussion, there is no scope for improvement at least for the first lot of 40 aircraft, of which 20 have already been ordered by the IAF. “There is no way that the first 40 aircraft will have any other engine than the GE 404. The engine gives a power of 80-85 Kilo Newton while the IAF requires them to have a capability of 95-100 Kilo Newton,” a top MoD source said, adding that the current thrust provided by the engine limits the angle of attack — a measure of the maneouverability of the aircraft—to 17 degrees against the IAF’s minimum requirement of 21 degrees. This makes the fighter unsuitable for aerial combat, especially given that neighbouring countries already possess more agile fighter planes.
With the IAF not willing to introduce any more such ‘limited’ fighters, plans are afoot to give the LCA a new engine with greater thrust. However, this would also require a complete redesign. “To put in a new engine, like the GE 414, with this capability, the existing structure of the aircraft will have to be modified. This would need design changes that will take another 3-4 years,” the source said.
However, India is yet to decide whether to go in for a completely imported engine or jointly develop an engine with a leading international player. With the Kaveri engine making little headway, India is planning to rope in manufacturers like General Electric (US), Snecma (France), Rolls Royce (UK) and NPO Saturn (Russia) for the project.

 

[Flintlock]

Tejas Hot-weather trials

 

[Flintlock]

 

[nitesh]

News From Sahara Samay:: Tejas' hot weather trial successful

'Tejas' hot weather trial successful

Posted at Friday, 06 June 2008 09:06 IST
Bangalore, June 6: Hot weather flight trials of India's light combat aircraft Tejas were conducted successfully at Air Force Station in Nagpur.

The trials were planned at Nagpur because of the high ambient temperature conditions prevailing there during this period, a DRDO release said here.

The aim of the trials was to test operation of the aircraft systems under high ambient temperature conditions of over 40 degree Celsius and the stringent conditions the aircraft would be expected to operate in after its induction into the Indian Air Force.

A composite team of members from IAF (AF), ADA, HAL, CEMILAC, DGAQA, with support from Air Force Station, Nagpur and Maintenance Command, IAF, conducted the trials, the release said.

A total of seven flights amounting to four hours were flown at Nagpur on two prototype aircraft, PV2 and PV3.

The tests included flights at 200 metres above ground and speeds up to 1,000 km per hour after 'hot soaking' the aircraft on tarmac for two to four hours, where the aircraft skin temperature reached values in excess of 70 degree Celsius.

The test flights were monitored in real time using a mobile telemetry station of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), positioned at Nagpur for this purpose.

This was the first time that the Tejas aircraft had flown to a distance of about 1,000 km from Bangalore non-stop at such high ambient temperature conditions.

The aircraft is next planned for operations over the deserts of Rajasthan, delivering precision guided bombs, later this year, it said.

 

[Flintlock]

News From Sahara Samay:: Tejas' hot weather trial successful

'Tejas' hot weather trial successful

Posted at Friday, 06 June 2008 09:06 IST
Bangalore, June 6: Hot weather flight trials of India's light combat aircraft Tejas were conducted successfully at Air Force Station in Nagpur.

The trials were planned at Nagpur because of the high ambient temperature conditions prevailing there during this period, a DRDO release said here.

The aim of the trials was to test operation of the aircraft systems under high ambient temperature conditions of over 40 degree Celsius and the stringent conditions the aircraft would be expected to operate in after its induction into the Indian Air Force.

A composite team of members from IAF (AF), ADA, HAL, CEMILAC, DGAQA, with support from Air Force Station, Nagpur and Maintenance Command, IAF, conducted the trials, the release said.

A total of seven flights amounting to four hours were flown at Nagpur on two prototype aircraft, PV2 and PV3.

The tests included flights at 200 metres above ground and speeds up to 1,000 km per hour after 'hot soaking' the aircraft on tarmac for two to four hours, where the aircraft skin temperature reached values in excess of 70 degree Celsius.

The test flights were monitored in real time using a mobile telemetry station of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), positioned at Nagpur for this purpose.

This was the first time that the Tejas aircraft had flown to a distance of about 1,000 km from Bangalore non-stop at such high ambient temperature conditions.

The aircraft is next planned for operations over the deserts of Rajasthan, delivering precision guided bombs, later this year, it said.

Dude this news story has been posted twice already.

 

[Khalsa]

Tejas to have only limited weaponry?



Press Trust of India
NEW DELHI, June 5: Already running 10 years behind schedule, the country's prestigious Light Combat Aircraft Tejas would be carrying only “limited weaponry” when they get ready by 2012.
As the first of these indigenous fighters strive for initial operational clearance in 2010, experts have come up with sudden complications that Tejas' US aeroengine GE404 does not have requisite thrust to give it power to carry its full load of weaponry, highly-placed sources said.
Tejas, on induction, were slated to be armed with air-to-air beyond visual range missiles, air-to-ground missiles and full complement of heavy and medium precision and cluster bombs.
But during the recent weaponisation of the fighters, experts have found out that Tejas, with the present engines, cannot carry its full load of armaments including crucial missiles.
“LCA's present GE404 engines give a thrust of only 80-85 kilo newtons, while the weapon payload of the fighter needs a thrust of 95-100 kilo newtons,” a source said, indicating the initial 40 Tejas fighters of the IAF, when inducted, would only be “weaponised to a limited role”.
India's defence planners have already started negotiations with US company General Electric, Snecma of France, Rolls Royce of UK, European defence consortium EADS and Russian NPS-Saturn on “co-development” or “technology transfer” of a more powerful aeroengine for Tejas.
“As things stand, there is no way that the initial batch of Tejas fighters would be powered by any other engine than GE404,” the source said.
Under an agreement signed with Aeronautical Development Estabilishment (ADE), the first 40 LCA fighters are to be powered by GE404.
The American company makes more powerful GE414 engines, which power the US Air Force's mainstay F-16 Fighting Falcons, the European consortium also makes EZ-200 engines for the Eurofighters.
Other companies who have the capability to make such engines are Rolls Royce, Snecma and NPS-Saturn.
But the official said that future Tejas fighters would be fitted with more powerful engines to give them capability to carry full complement of strategic weapons.

 

[Mohammed Azizuddin]

NEW DELHI: The first batch of light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas would carry “limited weaponry” because of engine power limitations, said highly placed Defence Ministry sources.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has placed orders for 20 LCAs and agreed in principle to take another 20.

“There is no way you can have any other engine for the first 40 LCAs,” said the sources. The LCA was undergoing tests fitted with the American GE-404 engine with a capacity of 80 to 85 kilo newtons (kn).

The IAF, on the other hand, wanted the capacity to be 95-100 kn, the same as the ones powering the F-16 fighters. “If we buy a more powerful engine, the aircraft structure will have to be completely changed. This will not be possible with the initial lot,” the sources said.

The initial operational clearance is slated for 2010 end but besides the engine issue, the LCA is facing problems on two other fronts — the angle of attack and the landing gear. While the angle of attack achieved by LCA is 17 degrees, the IAF wants it to be 21.

In order to fit a more powerful engine in the future, the government is considering both direct import and co-development options. In case the import route is preferred, the contenders will be General Electric’s GE-414 and the European EZ 200. The IAF has indicated its preference for the former.

For co-development, the choice will be between Snecma of France and the Russian NPO Saturn.

Source:The Hindu : National : LCA dogged by engine power limitations

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Aziz,

Merged your thread.

All LCA news and discussion goes here, unless there is some earth shattering development.