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[TALWAR]

Yup well heres some more of interest to you.....

Number of LCA's ordered by the IAF 20 + 20.......WOW!!!!!! After all those years of toil and stress they have ordered 20 with a follow on order of 20!!!!!!

Hey key, lets stop those childish smilies and discuss some technical stuff please.

Yes, how do you expect the IAF to order in huge numbers when aircraft is not fully Production version. The very fact that the order is 40 even before complete design shows the improvement in the aircraft.

 

[TALWAR]

Talwar:

The RD-33 (basic) has a thrust of 50 KN and a afterburner thrust of 81KN - pretty close to that of the LCA.

The JF-17 is also not the "frontline fighter" of the PAF - that role will continue to be filled by the F-16's and J-10's.

But India is welcome to compete with whomever,and believe whatever.

Do you say that F-16B is the frontline fighter- with only 12 of them. And with spares problem, we dont even know how many are operational at a given time.

Now dont tell me that F-16A are the frontline fighters too.

If there is a war in the next 6 months [say], which will be PAF's frontline fighter J-10 or the F-16 C/D ?

 

[TALWAR]

Lets talk when LCA gets IOC and induction starts. Comparing values and those too from open sources is not a real comparison.

Secondly, JF-17 will be the backbone and not the hi-tech edge of the PAF. It is meant to replace Mirages, F-7s and A-5s in PAF service, very similar to what your mighty LCA is for.

As far as competing, why was Pakistan even in the picture? India is 10x Pakistan in every metric you look at...rather shameful to be comparing the 800 lbs gorilla in the neighborhood with a smaller neighbor. Had India's focus been on China, US and EU, it would have made much greater progress by now.

India is 4 times larger than pakistan in size, if thats what you mean. But its 7 times more bigger in economy. Does that answer your question ?

Btw, technological development has nothing to do with size of the country. If you take it that way, then what do you say about Japan vs Brazil. India is compared with Pak because they both received the freedom in same time and have same history and geographical location.

 

[Keysersoze]

Hey key, lets stop those childish smilies and discuss some technical stuff please.

Yes, how do you expect the IAF to order in huge numbers when aircraft is not fully Production version. The very fact that the order is 40 even before complete design shows the improvement in the aircraft.

Well I would suggest that the IAF has been told to Support the DRDO's efforts and therefore has been told to make the purchase. And considering the number of planes required Its a small order. And excuses such as "It's not in production yet" do not wash, as they would have had the performance of the prototypes to go by. The simple fact is that the plane does not meet requirements.

Since you wanna talk technical stuff please explain to me how a cranked arrow wing set up is going to overcome the inherent problems with delta wing?

Please take a look at the picture at this link
Imagev3 tip.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now please show me the hardpoints you referred to. If you look at the size of the SRAAM's on the wing, now tell me the aerodynamic effects of whacking another 7 missiles on that airframe.

 

[blain2]

Do you say that F-16B is the frontline fighter- with only 12 of them. And with spares problem, we dont even know how many are operational at a given time.

Now dont tell me that F-16A are the frontline fighters too.

If there is a war in the next 6 months [say], which will be PAF's frontline fighter J-10 or the F-16 C/D ?

F-16B is the same thing as F-16A. B has a training role but is fully combat capable. Currently PAF has 34 fully combat capable F-16s in service. 2 are in the US for MLU. Spares are not an issue.

F-16A in the Indo-Pakistan scenario is very much a front-line aircraft. Pakistani F-16s have better avionics than anything aside from the 20 year younger MKIs in the IAF service.

As far as the war in 6 months is concerned, PAF would go into war with whatever it has at its disposal. They obviously would not be waiting for J-10s or F-16s to arrive. Mirages, F-7s, F-16s would have to do in case of a war.

 

[blain2]

India is 4 times larger than pakistan in size, if thats what you mean. But its 7 times more bigger in economy. Does that answer your question ?

Btw, technological development has nothing to do with size of the country. If you take it that way, then what do you say about Japan vs Brazil. India is compared with Pak because they both received the freedom in same time and have same history and geographical location.

By 10x, I am not quoting specific factors. Just using it to give you an idea. You quote size and then economy, how about quoting the difference in population for starters?? Why not compare the size of India's economy with that of China (with similar population dynamics)?

I am not talking about technological development here as a measure either when 800 million in India and 120 million in Pakistan don't have access to clean water. There are other more basic factors which India and Pakistan have to take care of.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Do you say that F-16B is the frontline fighter- with only 12 of them. And with spares problem, we dont even know how many are operational at a given time.

Now dont tell me that F-16A are the frontline fighters too.

If there is a war in the next 6 months [say], which will be PAF's frontline fighter J-10 or the F-16 C/D ?

..

lets say if their is a war in 6 months.. no problem bring it onn!
In next 24 hour... we will see 2 sqd or F-15 from KSA, from rest of middle east we can pull out some Mirage-2000 and how can i forget our good old fello China.. J-11 J-10 are not a problem... so your penny worth question is answered.. and ohh please dont tell me Russia is going to back the war with you guys because they only care about money not India..

your mighty MKI TVC engines are causing a lot of head ache as i have come to know that at least a squdron of MKI grounded due to heavy TVC maintenance...

And by the way which 12 F-16B are your talking about? or your think twin seater is more capable then a single seater and thus coming to conclusion that F-16B is our front line fighter lol... since 2003 every single of our 34 fleet of F-16 is fully operational and 24/7 combat ready!

 

[blain2]

23March,

Nobody is giving anything to Pakistan. Forget F-15s, M2Ks etc. etc. If history is anything to go by, our own assets are all that we have (F-7s, Mirages and F-16s) and they would have to do. You go to war with what you have operationalized and trained on...all "what ifs" are not included in the war calculus. PAF will play its role as will the PA and PN. Odds are stacked but as in the past, Pakistan will do what it must. For the sake of both countries, I hope there is no war.

 

[TALWAR]

Lets talk when LCA gets IOC and induction starts. Comparing values and those too from open sources is not a real comparison.

Secondly, JF-17 will be the backbone and not the hi-tech edge of the PAF. It is meant to replace Mirages, F-7s and A-5s in PAF service, very similar to what your mighty LCA is for.

As far as competing, why was Pakistan even in the picture? India is 10x Pakistan in every metric you look at...rather shameful to be comparing the 800 lbs gorilla in the neighborhood with a smaller neighbor. Had India's focus been on China, US and EU, it would have made much greater progress by now.

India is 4 times larger than pakistan in size, if thats what you mean. But its 7 times more bigger in economy. Does that answer your question ?

Btw, technological development has nothing to do with size of the country. If you take it that way, then what do you say about Japan vs Brazil. India is compared with Pak because they both received the freedom in same time and have same history and geographical location.

If that sense, China has fared very poorly when compared to Japan and Korea in terms or automobile and general appliances Industries.

Yes, India is years ahead of China in the IT sector. This is because IT sector needs less investment, and we had done our best in that. Now we have earned some money and are slowly moving towards Industries.

You would have heard about Jaguar-Landrover, Corus steel, Mittal steel, Mahindra, Ashok Leyland, Maruti..... Can you name one big name in Chinese industries which has huge operations outside of China ? They are more good at making toys and simple machines.

 

[TALWAR]

..

lets say if their is a war in 6 months.. no problem bring it onn!
In next 24 hour... we will see 2 sqd or F-15 from KSA, from rest of middle east we can pull out some Mirage-2000 and how can i forget our good old fello China.. J-11 J-10 are not a problem... so your penny worth question is answered.. and ohh please dont tell me Russia is going to back the war with you guys because they only care about money not India..

your mighty MKI TVC engines are causing a lot of head ache as i have come to know that at least a squdron of MKI grounded due to heavy TVC maintenance...

And by the way which 12 F-16B are your talking about? or your think twin seater is more capable then a single seater and thus coming to conclusion that F-16B is our front line fighter lol... since 2003 every single of our 34 fleet of F-16 is fully operational and 24/7 combat ready!

You have more faith in other countries than your own Nation.

Can you tell me the models of 34 F-16 's and how many of each pakistan has, and which ones are frontline fighters ?

...and a geniune source which says Su-30 MKI is grounded...

btw, do you even realize what 24 hours mean in a war ?

 

[TALWAR]

23March,

Nobody is giving anything to Pakistan. Forget F-15s, M2Ks etc. etc. If history is anything to go by, our own assets are all that we have (F-7s, Mirages and F-16s) and they would have to do. You go to war with what you have operationalized and trained on...all "what ifs" are not included in the war calculus. PAF will play its role as will the PA and PN. Odds are stacked but as in the past, Pakistan will do what it must. For the sake of both countries, I hope there is no war.

Yes, nobody wants war in the Modern world. Just talking about a scenario, nobody konws what will happen.

My other question - which is Pakistans frontline fighter right now ? And when you say F-16 please mention the correct model also.

 

[Keysersoze]

Yes, nobody wants war in the Modern world. Just talking about a scenario, nobody konws what will happen.

My other question - which is Pakistans frontline fighter right now ? And when you say F-16 please mention the correct model also.

What correct model would that be? Since all trainers are combat capable all versions would count.
There are the F-16's A/B's and the C's

 

[TALWAR]

Guys, when I speak about war, please dont take me wrongly. I do not want a war because I dont want people to be killed on either side and surely dont want to see an economic slowdown that will put us way behind the western countries.

I am just talking about the prepardness of the defence forces.

 

[TALWAR]

What correct model would that be? Since all trainers are combat capable all versions would count.
There are the F-16's A/B's and the C's

key, please can you clarify.

Question: Is the F-16A spec same as F-16B ? not seater details but radar tracking capabilities, hard points, compatible missiles, top-speed...

I am going offline, will see your response tomorrow.

Bye..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Yes, nobody wants war in the Modern world. Just talking about a scenario, nobody konws what will happen.

My other question - which is Pakistans frontline fighter right now ? And when you say F-16 please mention the correct model also.

dude A/B are same thing.. except twin seater is also used for training..
Spare parts are not a problem any more and pretty soon Block-15 will be given MLU and be just as good as block 52..
and by the way... in any war scenario not all IAF fighter fleet will be put on the front line to attack pakistan.. more or less as same number of PAF fighter fleet..