HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[kaykay]

The real problem with Tejas is similar to F35 which is "High stall speed" and dog fighting ability. Delta wings introduce both these problem's so does that mean Tejas will excel in BVR similar to F35?

J10 for example has very good low speed performance and is technically very similar under the skin.

That depends. Delta wings perform better in supersonic conditions. Anyway with HMDS and 5th generation Python-5, Tejas is second to none in dog fighting.

 

[Allen Iverson]

he Delta wing excells in instantaneous turn rates and hence it has better point and shoot capability. It has better climb rate compared to the conventional tail plane lay out. But the deltas also have the tendency to bleed energy when in a a sustained turn. To compensate this maneuvers like the rolling scissors, Immelman's turn were employed while fighting the conventional layout. The delta wing also has a large surface are and hence can carry more fuel compared to the aircraft with conventional layouts.

With an AoA af 26 degrees I think the Tejas can take on any of the aircraft in the inventory of the countries whom we are likely to face a war with.

Dear Sathish,

With all due respects, If what you have quoted, is out of enthusiasm it is really appreciable the time you took to learn these terms.. But talking on pure technical terms, your replies doesn't relate to one another..
1. what you said in the first paragraph is correct.. Not only they bleed energy,(bleeding energy is secondary because Turn out of climb is a slow speed manoeuvre) they tend to go for a compressor stall and to avoid this, right full rudder with stickforward or left rudder with stick backward is employed which will eventually take the plane into a barrel roll..

2. Then you spoke about angle of attack.. angle of attack of tejas at 26 Degrees which is good, but even JF is inspired with Mig21 design with a low 60 Degree delta wing and it can also do slow speed turns at high altitudes without much Fuss.. So I think, just Angle of attack will not make tejas superior.. There are other aspects which makes tejas superior but it is not fit to be discussed here..

I have Just pointed out the contradictions dear.. No intentions to troll you.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Dear Sathish,

With all due respects, If what you have quoted, is out of enthusiasm it is really appreciable the time you took to learn these terms.. But talking on pure technical terms, your replies doesn't relate to one another..
1. what you said in the first paragraph is correct.. Not only they bleed energy,(bleeding energy is secondary because Turn out of climb is a slow speed manoeuvre) they tend to go for a compressor stall and to avoid this, right full rudder with stickforward or left rudder with stick backward is employed which will eventually take the plane into a barrel roll..

2. Then you spoke about angle of attack.. angle of attack of tejas at 26 Degrees which is good, but even JF is inspired with Mig21 design with a low 60 Degree delta wing and it can also do slow speed turns at high altitudes without much Fuss.. So I think, just Angle of attack will not make tejas superior.. There are other aspects which makes tejas superior but it is not fit to be discussed here..

I have Just pointed out the contradictions dear.. No intentions to troll you.

Well the pure delta design has a High drag when compared to the conventional design with a tail plane. This is a known fact...here energy means 'speed'.

Due to the larger surface area of the delta wing the instantaneous turn rate is much higher comparatively but this creates a lot of drag.

The maneuver you are talking about is a barrel roll but the one I am talking about is the rolling scissors...where the lead aircraft has a tighter turn radius and the chase aircraft has a lesser one he climbs up and drops down on the lead aircraft giving him opportunity to lead the enemy with his fire and thus preserving energy(speed) in the dive.

What you talk about is the fight in the horizontal...but this is how they fight in the vertical. The Israelis have a similar maneuver called as the 'Let him pass' executed by the Mirage/Kfir against the MiG 21s in the Arab-Israeli war.

 

[Allen Iverson]

Well the pure delta design has a High drag when compared to the conventional design with a tail plane. This is a known fact...here energy means 'speed'.

Due to the larger surface area of the delta wing the instantaneous turn rate is much higher comparatively but this creates a lot of drag.

The maneuver you are talking about is a barrel roll but the one I am talking about is the rolling scissors...where the lead aircraft has a tighter turn radius and the chase aircraft has a lesser one he climbs up and drops down on the lead aircraft giving him opportunity to lead the enemy with his fire and thus preserving energy(speed) in the dive.

What you talk about is the fight in the horizontal...but this is how they fight in the vertical. The Israelis have a similar maneuver called as the 'Let him pass' executed by the Mirage/Kfir against the MiG 21s in the Arab-Israeli war.

Rudders are employed to minimise the Drag while employing the turn isn't it .. ? I fail to understand the requirement of discussing about manoeuvres here.. We are discussing about the specs of JF and Tejas, which by far is only in papers none of them had met an actual combat, nor any neutral Aviation experts are allowed to test fly these two.. So until that report comes out, we have to keep our fingers crossed.. As far as my experience in Aviation goes, what we see in papers is not even close to 40% of what we see in actual flight experience or combat sortie..The Barrel roll, The Pugachev Cobra, the scissor, etc were Maneuvres perfected for certain type of platforms against platforms that were put against it by their adversaries.. Comparing those on mere specs is idiotic.. Hence let us stick to things that we actually know till now, about these two platforms.. According to my sources Tejas has got many surprises which actually made the IAF finally go for it.. So let us all wait and hope for the best..

Well the pure delta design has a High drag when compared to the conventional design with a tail plane. This is a known fact...here energy means 'speed'.

Due to the larger surface area of the delta wing the instantaneous turn rate is much higher comparatively but this creates a lot of drag.

The maneuver you are talking about is a barrel roll but the one I am talking about is the rolling scissors...where the lead aircraft has a tighter turn radius and the chase aircraft has a lesser one he climbs up and drops down on the lead aircraft giving him opportunity to lead the enemy with his fire and thus preserving energy(speed) in the dive.

What you talk about is the fight in the horizontal...but this is how they fight in the vertical. The Israelis have a similar maneuver called as the 'Let him pass' executed by the Mirage/Kfir against the MiG 21s in the Arab-Israeli war.

By the way cool pics.. Where did you get the first one from?? Resembles my flight control studies manual from AFA..

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Rudders are employed to minimise the Drag while employing the turn isn't it .. ? I fail to understand the requirement of discussing about manoeuvres here.. We are discussing about the specs of JF and Tejas, which by far is only in papers none of them had met an actual combat, nor any neutral Aviation experts are allowed to test fly these two.. So until that report comes out, we have to keep our fingers crossed.. As far as my experience in Aviation goes, what we see in papers is not even close to 40% of what we see in actual flight experience or combat sortie..The Barrel roll, The Pugachev Cobra, the scissor, etc were Maneuvres perfected for certain type of platforms against platforms that were put against it by their adversaries.. Comparing those on mere specs is idiotic.. Hence let us stick to things that we actually know till now, about these two platforms.. According to my sources Tejas has got many surprises which actually made the IAF finally go for it.. So let us all wait and hope for the best..


By the way cool pics.. Where did you get the first one from?? Resembles my flight control studies manual from AFA..

Well the basics of maneuvers remains the same. and we are just discussing the specs of tejas here not the JF 17.

 

[Allen Iverson]

Well the basics of maneuvers remains the same. and we are just discussing the specs of tejas here not the JF 17.

By the way Sathish, your name, makes me think that, you are a Tamilian?? Are you one?? If so from Which District??

 

[satishkumarcsc]

By the way Sathish, your name, makes me think that, you are a Tamilian?? Are you one?? If so from Which District??

Chennai!

Rudders are employed to minimise the Drag while employing the turn isn't it .. ? I fail to understand the requirement of discussing about manoeuvres here.. We are discussing about the specs of JF and Tejas, which by far is only in papers none of them had met an actual combat, nor any neutral Aviation experts are allowed to test fly these two.. So until that report comes out, we have to keep our fingers crossed.. As far as my experience in Aviation goes, what we see in papers is not even close to 40% of what we see in actual flight experience or combat sortie..The Barrel roll, The Pugachev Cobra, the scissor, etc were Maneuvres perfected for certain type of platforms against platforms that were put against it by their adversaries.. Comparing those on mere specs is idiotic.. Hence let us stick to things that we actually know till now, about these two platforms.. According to my sources Tejas has got many surprises which actually made the IAF finally go for it.. So let us all wait and hope for the best..


By the way cool pics.. Where did you get the first one from?? Resembles my flight control studies manual from AFA..

well I got it from the net..just needed to type that and I read about those in 'No guts No Glory' by Gen. Blesse

 

[Allen Iverson]

Chennai!

Alright.. I guessed it.. I'm from Coimbatore, now settled in Dallas,TX..

 

[fsayed]

http://idrw.org/in-flight-refuelling-probe-testing-to-begin-soon-on-lca-tejas/

In-flight refuelling probe testing to begin soon on LCA-Tejas
Published July 25, 2016
SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK



Cobham supplied In-flight refuelling probe for LCA-Tejas MK-1

A nearly year ago UK based Company “Cobham” handed over in-flight refuelling probe for integration with LCA-Tejas MK-1 and now HAL is planning to start the first trial runs in next few weeks said informed sources close to idrw.org .

Limited Series Production-8 (LSP-8) stopped flying from January this year and has been already integrated with supplied in-flight refuelling probe and land-based trials have been carried out after structural modification were performed on LSP-8 for probe integration which also saw software upgrades to enable fuel sensors to detect mid-air fuel supply and to show correct fuel capacity to pilots.

LSP-8 will start flying again in next few weeks to conduct carriage trials before mockup dry trials will begin wherein the first phase IAF’s Ilyushin IL-78 air-to-air refuelling tanker aircraft and LSP-8 will carry out mockup mid-air refuelling where both aircraft will fly in close proximity to record and study behavior of the tanker’s fuel-transferring systems in the vicinity of the probe and the handling qualities of the aircraft.

The second phase will see actual contact with the fuel transferring systems of tanker with the in-flight refuelling probe of LCA-Tejas aircraft but no fuel transfer will actually take place , tests will be repeated till it achieves 2-5 minutes in contact with tanker which is actual fuel transfer time usually taken by tanker to pump fuel into a fighter jet. Wet runs trials will be followed after completion of Dry run trials where actual fuel transfer will take place which may happen only in next year .

Integration and demonstration of mid-air refuelling probe on LCA-Tejas are one of the key requirement to obtain Final Operational Clearance (FOC) . First, 20 IOC-II certified LCA-Tejas MK-1 will initially be produced and delivered without in-flight refuelling capacity but will be upgraded at a later stage since all aircraft will come with provision for pumps and fuel lines for IFR integration at a later stage.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

@PARIKRAMA

From PIB
Ministry of Defence26-July, 2016 14:51 IST
Production of Tejas Aircraft

HAL has an installed capacity to produce 8 Light Combat Aircraft – Tejas per annum. There is no fighter aircraft project which is pending for decades.

Tejas aircraft will partially meet IAF’s requirement in Light Weight fighter category.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parrikar in a written reply to Shri Harivansh in Rajya Sabha today.

DM/NAMPI/RAJ
(Release ID :147719)

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@PARIKRAMA

Tejas aircraft will partially meet IAF’s requirement in Light Weight fighter category.

Important choice of words...

LM and Saab both would be very happy hearing this..

May be LSA...

Let me ask Vstol and comeback to you on this..

 

[rockstarIN]

Important choice of words...

LM and Saab both would be very happy hearing this..

May be LSA...

Let me ask Vstol and comeback to you on this..

The MK1A will meet full requirements then. SP series are IOC-II configuration.

 

[Abingdonboy]

An old testing pic down at INS Hansa:

Parked next to the IN's Sagar Pawan display team, wouldn't it quite the sight to see the team re-formed this time flying the N-LCA

 

[BoQ77]

How much is the HAL Tejas ? my friend
I think it's suitable to replace Vietnam obsolete Mig-21 and Su-22 fleets by this baby.

 

[Han Patriot]

How much is the HAL Tejas ? my friend
I think it's suitable to replace Vietnam obsolete Mig-21 and Su-22 fleets by this baby.

LOL, my viet friend, I bet you haven't deal with an Indy before. You have no idea what you are gonna face, good luck!