HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions-[Thread 2]

[zebra7]

ohh.... ok in that case it wont be a problem at all then since they have intregated an isreali weapon (derby) before.
what of the development of the astra?

 

[Blue Marlin]

im asking of it development not of its specs...... how long will it take for it be inducted on the mk2, mki, lca.

 

[zebra7]

im asking of it development not of its specs...... how long will it take for it be inducted on the mk2, mki, lca.

I might be wrong, but ASTRA-1 is amost ready, and going field trial, and should be produced in 1-3 years after IAF placed ordered for Astra-1 from DRDO.

Astra-2 however will takes some times. There are many indian pvt companies emergies, and now the development of the Desi Ku band Seeker is on, which will replace the Russian AGAT seeker, which is produced by DRDO with full TOT.

There is no news or articles that support any IR seeker development carried out by DRDO or any pvt indian company, and may be for passive mode when inducted in the Astra-- India will seek those technology from the Israel or France.

Buddy mode of the ASTRA, which provides it the capability to be guided to the location Cued by other aircraft such as another MKI or AEW EC or UAV or would provide advantage to IAF and its tactics, such as LCA remaining passive and in forward position and passive and MKI at the back with active BARS illuminating the target, and providing target updates via Operational Data Link ODL-2.

 

[Agent_47]

Mark my words, there will be a new air launched WVR missile based on DRDO QRSAM.
May be even with IR head.

 

[zebra7]

I had one question regarding the choise of the BVR and WVR missile for Tejas.

How many of you thinks, that the choise of Derby and Python 5 is a good choice that the MICA IR/RF for Tejas. I think, the choice could be better if we would have gone for MICA path, making it a common weapon for Mirage UPG, Rafale and LCA Tejas, also MICA is a proven weapon in the European environment, with high Kill probability in an electronic warfare environment.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

I had one question regarding the choise of the BVR and WVR missile for Tejas.

How many of you thinks, that the choise of Derby and Python 5 is a good choice that the MICA IR/RF for Tejas. I think, the choice could be better if we would have gone for MICA path, making it a common weapon for Mirage UPG, Rafale and LCA Tejas, also MICA is a proven weapon in the European environment, with high Kill probability in an electronic warfare environment.

LCA has an Israeli radar that is Elta 2032

Missiles have to be INTEGRATED with radars ; you need source codes for that

Israel will NOT allow MICA missiles ;--It is BUSINESS -- as simple as that

But Israel has accepted integration of India's ASTRA because it is our own missile

 

[Agent_47]

I had one question regarding the choise of the BVR and WVR missile for Tejas.

How many of you thinks, that the choise of Derby and Python 5 is a good choice that the MICA IR/RF for Tejas. I think, the choice could be better if we would have gone for MICA path, making it a common weapon for Mirage UPG, Rafale and LCA Tejas, also MICA is a proven weapon in the European environment, with high Kill probability in an electronic warfare environment.

• Israel FCS, integration would be easier.
• Derby/Python 5 combo is equally proven if not more.
• Cheaper, considering we spend around $1 billion for 500 MICAs.
• MICA is not upgraded while Derby ER is available.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

• Israel FCS, integration would be easier.

• Derby/Python 5 combo is equally proven if not more.

• Cheaper, considering we spend around $1 billion for 500 MICAs.

• MICA is not upgraded while Derby ER is available.

I read some where that Israel even refused R 77 integration

As long as we need Israeli radars we will have to use Derby and Python 5

And now we are going for Israeli AESA 2052

 

[zebra7]

• Israel FCS, integration would be easier.
• Derby/Python 5 combo is equally proven if not more.
• Cheaper, considering we spend around $1 billion for 500 MICAs.
• MICA is not upgraded while Derby ER is available.

• Technically I feels MICA is better, that Derby both PK wise and propulsion wise
• There have been developent of upgrades of MICA going as we speek
• One Missile doing both BVR and WVR, means MICA could also be fired at the enemy in very close distance.
• For MICA IR, there is no need for the Radar for the illuminating the target, which is what LCA Tejas as an interceptor will be doing, when it have to follow the invading enemy plane from the tail.
• MICA IR also acts as IR passive sensor, when on board on the host plane, and could suffix the lack of IR Sensor though low performance.
• Higher number means low cost, and comonality means low maintainance cost.

 

[kaykay]

I had one question regarding the choise of the BVR and WVR missile for Tejas.

How many of you thinks, that the choise of Derby and Python 5 is a good choice that the MICA IR/RF for Tejas. I think, the choice could be better if we would have gone for MICA path, making it a common weapon for Mirage UPG, Rafale and LCA Tejas, also MICA is a proven weapon in the European environment, with high Kill probability in an electronic warfare environment.

I think Derby-ER+ Python-5 combo for Tejas is better. Reason being, Tejas mk1 has an hybrid radar which is based on an Israeli mmr and also even the Tejas mk1A will have Israeli AESA radar and thus Israeli weapons are better suited. Not to mention that Derby-ER is 100+ km bvr missile and highly advance one at that( with its 'second kick' at terminal phase, It ensure its 'No Escape Zone'(NEZ) to its full range which is 100 km, which is similar to the 'NEZ' of Meteor, though Meteor's range is greater).
Python-5 is also good for its role....Its only comparable to Iris-t, Assram and Aim-9x.

 

[zebra7]

I read some where that Israel even refused R 77 integration

As long as we need Israeli radars we will have to use Derby and Python 5

And now we are going for Israeli AESA 2052

What about Astra then, oops it also uses the Agat Seeker

I think, they will ask for the cost of the integration of the R77.

 

[Agent_47]

Technically I feels MICA is better, that Derby both PK wise and propulsion wise

Subjective, Python/Derby combo is designed for relatively close combat which fits the LCA role.

There have been developent of upgrades of MICA going as we speek

Not in production

• One Missile doing both BVR and WVR, means MICA could also be fired at the enemy in very close distance.

• For MICA IR, there is no need for the Radar for the illuminating the target, which is what LCA Tejas as an interceptor will be doing, when it have to follow the invading enemy plane from the tail.

• MICA IR also acts as IR passive sensor, when on board on the host plane, and could suffix the lack of IR Sensor though low performance.

• Higher number means low cost, and comonality means low maintainance cost.

integration and procurement costs out weights all these in favor of Python/Derby.

What about Astra then, oops it also uses the Agat Seeker

I think, they will ask for the cost of the integration of the R77.

Dude, seeker is part of the missile system. Integration of the seeker to the missile is already done. Now we can plug the missile anywhere we want.

 

[rockstarIN]

I had one question regarding the choise of the BVR and WVR missile for Tejas.

How many of you thinks, that the choise of Derby and Python 5 is a good choice that the MICA IR/RF for Tejas. I think, the choice could be better if we would have gone for MICA path, making it a common weapon for Mirage UPG, Rafale and LCA Tejas, also MICA is a proven weapon in the European environment, with high Kill probability in an electronic warfare environment.

IMO Derby&Py-5 combo is better than MICA for Tejas, coz,

• Cost of MICA is very high as you know we paid too much amount for MICA series weapons.
• Derby(current version)is less weighted than traditional BVRs. Its range is less than ARMRAM/R-77 as it is good for a light fighter. Your radar can track boggies away from 70-100 km but the BVR engagement range will always within 45 km range. It was kept in mind while making the same. The the range is enough for the real engagement provided the kill zone is higher than other BVRs.
  
• It can be fired as a short range missile fro very short range without creating any problem for the launch platform.
  
• Derby ER is coming with greater range and widening no escape zone.
• ELTA 2032 & 2052 or even DRDO AESA integration will be easy.
• Lock on before and after launch.

 

[zebra7]

IMO Derby&Py-5 combo is better than MICA for Tejas, coz,

• Cost of MICA is very high as you know we paid too much amount for MICA series weapons.
• Derby(current version)is less weighted than traditional BVRs. Its range is less than ARMRAM/R-77 as it is good for a light fighter. Your radar can track boggies away from 70-100 km but the BVR engagement range will always within 45 km range. It was kept in mind while making the same. The the range is enough for the real engagement provided the kill zone is higher than other BVRs.
  
• It can be fired as a short range missile fro very short range without creating any problem for the launch platform.
  
• Derby ER is coming with greater range and widening no escape zone.
• ELTA 2032 & 2052 or even DRDO AESA integration will be easy.
• Lock on before and after launch.

Good attempt

• What is the cost of the MICA IR/RF and the I-Derby-ER and Python-5 ? Don't mix the upgradation package of the Mirrage 2000 H of IAF, because that involved a lot, and many tech. from the Rafale like MDPU.
• Derby wt is 120 KG, where as MICA wt 110 kg. And for the Range do you really believe Range Matters, and not PK, NEZ, Proximity Fuse, Top attack profile, Resistance to high electronic jamming profile.
• MICA could be used for very short range, high bore angle, and long range fire and forget mode.
• For greater range R-77 PD is there, which is heavy, but cheaper.
• Integration do not need to have the whole source code, rather the part of the code.
• LOBL, LOAL is also with MICA

You have to ask permission from another country to integrate a missile on your 'indigenous' plane? Seriously....

Yes, but when you have 120 Radar order confirm for LCA mk-1, 40 for MK-2, Jaguar, Early warning systems, MF Stars, AEW EC, Barak, Spyder, Spike, Spice order in large qty, dosen't it qualify for just a small request as token.

 

[kaykay]

@zebra7 check out this thread by @DrSomnath999 for more info...I am sure you'll find it interesting. Also before comparison, just remember that Tejas has an Israeli radar and many other subsystems. Also one Mica cost us 2.7-2.8 million dollar a unit, clearly very expensive.

https://defence.pk/threads/french-mica-em-ir-missile-vs-israeli-derby-em-python-5-ir-missile.180044/