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Hajj stampede beyond human control, 'destiny is inevitable', says top Saudi cleric

Every one of you had to be there to understand whose responsibility it was. Anyone who was there knows that it was because of some people being hasty that caused the incident. To all the stupid haters, you should go get a life and then blame it on saudia coz your life sucks. Enough of your hypocrisy when you havent got a clue how things work at the time of hajj and how these incidents happen. The most important thing i witnessed was most of the problems there are in hajj are caused by shias, pakistanis, afghanis, bangalis. And believe me i have witnessed them all.
 
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Every one of you had to be there to understand whose responsibility it was. Anyone who was there knows that it was because of some people being hasty that caused the incident. To all the stupid haters, you should go get a life and then blame it on saudia coz your life sucks. Enough of your hypocrisy when you havent got a clue how things work at the time of hajj and how these incidents happen. The most important thing i witnessed was most of the problems there are in hajj are caused by shias, pakistanis, afghanis, bangalis. And believe me i have witnessed them all.
And a bahreini re-invented the wheel..It's the Shia, how in hell we missed that? Boy I love smart people in pdf, and all a long I thought we had only tipana boy beating the wahabi tam tam..
 
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It was planned by KSA ...

just look at some of IRan causalities ...

-- IRGC General Moshaf'feq ( is missing -- some sources are saying that KSA kidnapped him in middle of chaos )

-- IRGC General Fooladgar

-- IRan former ambassador in Lebanon , Mister Rokn Abadi ( he survived some terrorist attack in past years )

-- A High ranked Scientist in Aerospace and Missile Program ....

-- and several more Officials who are missing ...


and now KSA doesn't want to give back bodies to Iran and want to bury then in mass graves ...... why !? to cover everything up ....


we knew what they are but doing this in middle of Haj is was above our exception ...
 
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It was planned by KSA ...

just look at some of IRan causalities ...

-- IRGC General Moshaf'feq ( is missing -- some sources are saying that KSA kidnapped him in middle of chaos )

-- IRGC General Fooladgar

-- IRan former ambassador in Lebanon , Mister Rokn Abadi ( he survived some terrorist attack in past years )

-- A High ranked Scientist in Aerospace and Missile Program ....

-- and several more Officials who are missing ...


and now KSA doesn't want to give back bodies to Iran and want to bury then in mass graves ...... why !? to cover everything up ....


we knew what they are but doing this in middle of Haj is was above our exception ...

I doubt it. When has KSA ever planned anything? Did KSA plan before attacking Yemen or did Prince Mohammad put as much thought into it as pressing "Start New Game" in 'Call of Duty'?
 
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I doubt it. When has KSA ever planned anything? Did KSA plan before attacking Yemen or did Prince Mohammad put as much thought into it as pressing "Start New Game" in 'Call of Duty'?

don't be ridiculous ... its not just a keyboard fight between some people in web ...
some of our highest Security Official are missing and you want to play "hate game" with some arabs ...
 
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don't be ridiculous ... its not just a keyboard fight between some people in web ...
some of our highest Security Official are missing and you want to play "hate game" with some arabs ...

Well that's just fantastic! The Iranian government sends its top scientists and military brass unprotected to Saudi Arabia, where they can be kidnapped, made to talk under torture and then buried somewhere, all under the pretext of being killed in an accident, and we're not even in a position to ask for their bodies back.

Imagine if American military commanders and scientists with highest security clearances had to go on pilgrimage to the Soviet Union every year!!! We are the source of our own difficulties...
 
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don't be ridiculous ... its not just a keyboard fight between some people in web ...
some of our highest Security Official are missing and you want to play "hate game" with some arabs ...

I am against the government of KSA but I don't think they have enough planning abilities to suddenly close of gates and hope for a stampede so that maybe a few officials die. Wouldn't it have been easier to assassinate them in their hotels and blame ISIS? And why would they do something like that and get hit by the negative publicity just so they can kill the former ambassador of Lebanon?

Let's not go overboard. This was due to arrogance and incompetence, and our anger is aimed at that plus their lack of humility, they refusal to take any responsibility or give any apology. There is no evidence that it was deliberate.
 
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The former Iranian ambassador in Lebanon from 2010-2014 was one of the Iranian people who entered to Saudi fro Hajj this year. However, Saudi authorities didn't find his (real name) on the data base of Hajj visitors. He fabricated his name and I believe many other Iranians did. So how can we trust them? if an ambassador of their country broke the law then what can we expect from the rest of them?
 
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The former Iranian ambassador in Lebanon from 2010-2014 was one of the Iranian people who entered to Saudi fro Hajj this year. However, Saudi authorities didn't find his (real name) on the data base of Hajj visitors. He fabricated his name and I believe many other Iranians did. So how can we trust them? if an ambassador of their country broke the law then what can we expect from the rest of them?

Habibi noor al-ayn, that's because you're just so happy to grab your ankles in front of the Americans and the British, that's just abnormal for Iranians. So they just don't trust you. I hope you can understand.... but I don't count on it.
 
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Well that's just fantastic! The Iranian government sends its top scientists and military brass unprotected to Saudi Arabia, where they can be kidnapped, made to talk under torture and then buried somewhere, all under the pretext of being killed in an accident, and we're not even in a position to ask for their bodies back.

Imagine if American military commanders and scientists with highest security clearances had to go on pilgrimage to the Soviet Union every year!!! We are the source of our own difficulties...

If this is true that senior Iranian officials holding classified information went to SA and are now victims of this accident then I am afraid if I was Iranian I would want "regime change" inside Iran. You need fresh blood taking over in Tehran.
 
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If this is true that senior Iranian officials holding classified information went to SA and are now victims of this accident then I am afraid if I was Iranian I would want "regime change" inside Iran. You need fresh blood taking over in Tehran.
Buddy I don't know how much you really know about Iran. But I can personally tell you, that during the time of the Shah, we had an excellent relationship. We could count on them with our eyes closed. BUT ever since the mullahs came to power.............
 
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If this is true that senior Iranian officials holding classified information went to SA and are now victims of this accident then I am afraid if I was Iranian I would want "regime change" inside Iran. You need fresh blood taking over in Tehran.

As they say, we are our own biggest obstacle! Hopefully after Khamenei dies, we'll start a slow and orderly reform process.... well a man can dream at least...

Buddy I don't know how much you really know about Iran. But I can personally tell you, that during the time of the Shah, we had an excellent relationship. We could count on them with our eyes closed. BUT ever since the mullahs came to power.............

What's that got to do with the price of camel milk?
 
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What's that got to do with the price of camel milk?
The answer to your question:
If this is true that senior Iranian officials holding classified information went to SA and are now victims of this accident then I am afraid if I was Iranian I would want "regime change" inside Iran. You need fresh blood taking over in Tehran.
 
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Buddy I don't know how much you really know about Iran. But I can personally tell you, that during the time of the Shah, we had an excellent relationship. We could count on them with our eyes closed. BUT ever since the mullahs came to power.............

I know. Iran was probably our closest ally back then. They even allowed our fighters to cross over into Iran during the 1965 war. Iran gave us full logistic support even giving us spare parts for fighters and aviation fuel. Iranian nurses came to Pakistan to look after our war injured soldiers. In fact did more than what one can expect from a ally. Then disaster 1979. Although things had been tapering off sometime bore that but 1979 was the rupture. They went all revolutionery with "Margeh Amerika" and we jumped in bed with the Americans. However I believe we are now on path to reorientation and in time will align again. Of course it is going to take time and we have to get past the 30 odd years of cold relationship but the future looks positive.

Fact is Iran is Isreal and America nemesis. As we inch away from America toward Russia/China India moves closer to USA. This will result in the gap between us and Iran getting less and less. We also have to calm down on the sectarian rhetoric. Firsr because of our stability. We have 10-15% Shia and we don't want to have internal problems and second it would help in our relationship with Iran. We must stress "Muslim" not Shia/Sunni.

@bozorgmehr I think your future is bright. What you said about the Iranian Mullah regime being the best adverisement of secularism is true. Your younger populace appears to be very secular so that looks promising.
 
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I know. Iran was probably our closest ally back then. They even allowed our fighters to cross over into Iran during the 1965 war. Iran gave us full logistic support even giving us spare parts for fighters and aviation fuel. Iranian nurses came to Pakistan to look after our war injured soldiers. In fact did more than what one can expect from a ally. Then disaster 1979. Although things had been tapering off sometime bore that but 1979 was the rupture. They went all revolutionery with "Margeh Amerika" and we jumped in bed with the Americans. However I believe we are now on path to reorientation and in time will align again. Of course it is going to take time and we have to get past the 30 odd years of cold relationship but the future looks positive.

Fact is Iran is Isreal and America nemesis. As we inch away from America toward Russia/China India moves closer to USA. This will result in the gap between us and Iran getting less and less. We also have to calm down on the sectarian rhetoric. Firsr because of our stability. We have 10-15% Shia and we don't want to have internal problems and second it would help in our relationship with Iran. We must stress "Muslim" not Shia/Sunni.

@bozorgmehr I think your future is bright. What you said about the Iranian Mullah regime being the best adverisement of secularism is true. Your younger populace appears to be very secular so that looks promising.

Well Iran was a client state of the US before the revolution. You have to know a little bit of the contemporary Iranian history to put that into context and understand the struggles of the Iranian people to ensure their independence at their weakest moment, against the colonizing powers and corrupt Kings who were selling off the country little by little.

Just to give you a an idea, there was a popular revolution in very early 1900s, culminating in the Shah signing a constitution curtailing his powers to rule. Following that two rounds of parliamentary elections were held in 1906 and 1909. Unfortunately, the Russians invaded in 1911 to put an end to this episode. And the people of Iran were unable to stop them because they were materially and culturally poor at that point. But it doesn't mean they didn't know what the wanted. They just didn't know how to get there.

So against that backdrop and other more painful episodes, the fact that the Shah was close to the US and therefore a close ally of US co-clients is no feather in our cap.
 
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