General Niazi: Traitor or Hero?

[Bratva]

Then how on earth did Gen.Tikka Khan get elevated to Generalship? And did he not also become COAS?
That apart, Tikka Khan was the man who let loose the "reign of terror" in East Pakistan and also earned the title of "Butcher of Balochistan". On whose orders did he do all of that?

The one officer who came out creditably in East Pakistan at the levels of Higher Command was Lt.Gen.Sahibzada Yakub Khan; who went to make a sterling career as a diplomat. Even Adm.S.M.Ahsan comes off well out of that episode in History.

Brigadier Tajammul Hussain Malik

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Brigadier Tajammul Hussain Malik

There is no doubt about Brig.Malik at all. Though I meant at the levels of "Higher Command" in my post.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe, if you read about Tikka Khan from his contemporaries.. the man was a complete "Jeeves". He was a good tactician.. but also an order follower.. who gave the orders?

Truthfully speaking, no, I had not got this side of Tikka Khan at all. That is a very interesting input, albeit, in the light of your further remarks, a blood-curdling one. Who gave the orders? Was it the clique at Dhaka, Rao Farman Ali and others? Or was it direct from West Pakistan, from Yahya himself. Strangely, most accounts of Yahya before he became CMLA talk of him as a soldiers' soldier, although a self-indulgent one. I find it hard to believe that he would give such brutal orders. But then, on the other hand, he was desperate.

What do you think happened? Someone panicked, and ordered this frightfulness, but who was it? Or was it a committee decision? All I know for sure is that a general who later became an extremely successful diplomat withdrew from the situation as soon as he was able to.

I have to confess that I know little about the Pakistani side of things, for several reasons.

For one, it was too close a thing for me to read about in an objective way; all of us were in tears of frustration and anger at Mrs. G. having betrayed the Bengalis and the Bangladeshis. We really hated her for a few months. The preparations were kept very quiet.

For another, after the surrender at Dhaka, there was total disbelief. Thirteen days! That was wizard. The swiftness and completeness was overwhelming. This, against an enemy that had fought hard and very well in 65.

For a third, my uncle the DNI opened up, and gave us snippets of information when he came home (he was operating out of Delhi, but camped frequently in Calcutta, where he had nothing to do with the family). It was hair-raising stuff, and kept us from asking other questions.

Did I mention the celebrations? There is a picture which I have kept away from PDF, because it would be irritating for some to see, a picture of the dinner guests some time in December 71, with the Aroras, Col. Osmani, Jake, Siddhartha Ray, the chief of the refugee camps, and three of us children, posing with my parents, the hosts.

All said and done, it was only Z. A. Khan's The Way It Was which first gave me a flavour of the Pakistani side of the whole thing. Fortunately, it was a brilliant book, written in a laconic, disillusioned style which is quite inimitable. Deadpan, if words can be deadpan, also unsparing.

I said this at length because your comment was quite startling, and completely contrary to impressions one had of Tikka Khan. There is so much to learn.

As I said.. "Jeeves". Dont rock the boat.. help out.

Oh my God. I get it now. Of course.

Then how on earth did Gen.Tikka Khan get elevated to Generalship? And did he not also become COAS?
That apart, Tikka Khan was the man who let loose the "reign of terror" in East Pakistan and also earned the title of "Butcher of Balochistan". On whose orders did he do all of that?

The one officer who came out creditably in East Pakistan at the levels of Higher Command was Lt.Gen.Sahibzada Yakub Khan; who went to make a sterling career as a diplomat. Even Adm.S.M.Ahsan comes off well out of that episode in History.

I was referring to Sahibzada Yaqub Khan too, in the mention I made in my post.

 

[American Pakistani]

Niazi was like a dog who was leading Pak-Army soldiers(Lions) & so it happened.

He must not have surrender at any cost, he should've fought till his last man standing.

Overall Pakistan Army fought very bravely even when they were clearly out numbered(46,000 Pak Army troops VS 250,000+ mutki terrorists + 200,000+ indian army), also Pak Army was fighting a war 1600km away from mainland & surrounded by hostile country all sides not to mention the local population which was supporting & helping indian army.

 

[GoodBoy]

please elaborate what happened after the surrender.
--were they forced to dance as nautch girls ????
--were they given to the mukti bahinis for sureshot lynching n murder???

abey sanki paagal, post karne se pehle soch to liya kar.

Abey.... he is @RazPak... you are expecting toooo much from him.

On topic... if he was so called "Tiger" then SHOULD have fought.... 100,000 men are enough to fight but he surrendered to mere 25,000 Indian Army men.

Now he is in history as "Chooha Niazi".

 

[livingdead]

Niazi was like a dog who was leading Pak-Army soldiers(Lions) & so it happened.

He must not have surrender at any cost, he should've fought till his last man standing.

Overall Pakistan Army fought very bravely even when they were clearly out numbered(46,000 Pak Army troops VS 250,000+ mutki terrorists + 200,000+ indian army), also Pak Army was fighting a war 1600km away from mainland & surrounded by hostile country all sides not to mention the local population which was supporting & helping indian army.

who was heading army in west pakistan, he deserves bigger punishment for failure to reduce pressure on eastern front. As majority of forces ammased on west, he failed to deliver and allowed east to be overrun.

Why blame niazi then.

BTW, if pakistani army had lions so did we, so that cancels out... both country has volunteer army so what is so special about pakistani lions..

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Truthfully speaking, no, I had not got this side of Tikka Khan at all. That is a very interesting input, albeit, in the light of your further remarks, a blood-curdling one. Who gave the orders? Was it the clique at Dhaka, Rao Farman Ali and others? Or was it direct from West Pakistan, from Yahya himself. Strangely, most accounts of Yahya before he became CMLA talk of him as a soldiers' soldier, although a self-indulgent one. I find it hard to believe that he would give such brutal orders. But then, on the other hand, he was desperate.

What do you think happened? Someone panicked, and ordered this frightfulness, but who was it? Or was it a committee decision? All I know for sure is that a general who later became an extremely successful diplomat withdrew from the situation as soon as he was able to.

I have to confess that I know little about the Pakistani side of things, for several reasons.

For one, it was too close a thing for me to read about in an objective way; all of us were in tears of frustration and anger at Mrs. G. having betrayed the Bengalis and the Bangladeshis. We really hated her for a few months. The preparations were kept very quiet.

For another, after the surrender at Dhaka, there was total disbelief. Thirteen days! That was wizard. The swiftness and completeness was overwhelming. This, against an enemy that had fought hard and very well in 65.

For a third, my uncle the DNI opened up, and gave us snippets of information when he came home (he was operating out of Delhi, but camped frequently in Calcutta, where he had nothing to do with the family). It was hair-raising stuff, and kept us from asking other questions.

Did I mention the celebrations? There is a picture which I have kept away from PDF, because it would be irritating for some to see, a picture of the dinner guests some time in December 71, with the Aroras, Col. Osmani, Jake, Siddhartha Ray, the chief of the refugee camps, and three of us children, posing with my parents, the hosts.

All said and done, it was only Z. A. Khan's The Way It Was which first gave me a flavour of the Pakistani side of the whole thing. Fortunately, it was a brilliant book, written in a laconic, disillusioned style which is quite inimitable. Deadpan, if words can be deadpan, also unsparing.

I said this at length because your comment was quite startling, and completely contrary to impressions one had of Tikka Khan. There is so much to learn.



Oh my God. I get it now. Of course.

Joe that is an interesting input. I saw that war from a more distant part of the country. Though I read more about the proceedings and heard a little about it. One of them was a certain Naval Officer known as "Ganooda" among Bengali Officers in the IN (whose family ancestors lived in 1, Lovelock Place) who (if I remember correctly) came back from from superannuation to help organise the Naval wing of the Mukti Bahini. Then as you have mentioned elsewhere (and as Adm.Roy has written about) there was Capt.M.N.Samant who trained and led the frogmen of the MB who used rudimentary things like reeds as breathing tubes to stealthily sabotage river shipping. There was also Cdr.H.K.Mukherjee (who incidentally washed out of the first batch of 13 volunteers to sign up for the Fleet Air Arm) who was with the River Wing of the BSF who set up the River Forces. Interesting times indeed.

About Gen.Tikka Khan and his "bloody reputation", did I miss something? Gen. Yahya Khan somehow never came away with any of that. Though his decadent ways are the stuff of legend, he never displayed the single-mindedness of purpose that a "Butcher" needs to have.
Interestingly, years ago I met a man who was supposed to be a son of "General Rani" in Port Rashid; he happened to be a Dock Supervisor for a Stevedoring Company.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No. 1, Lovelock Place? The Mitters? I never knew that they had a relative in the Navy. Must find out more. Something for you on PM, related to Oscar being obscure.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

No. 1, Lovelock Place? The Mitters? I never knew that they had a relative in the Navy. Must find out more. Something for you on PM, related to Oscar being obscure.

1.Lovelock Place. Residence of the Chatterjees who ran India Steam Laundry. Cdr.G.C.Chatterjee was from that family.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Of course, Ganesh Chandra, quite a senior guy, actually. Ganoo Da, obviously; never thought of him. Thanks. Fascinating snippet. I am just a few minutes walk away from there as I type this in.

PS: Did you get the PM?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Of course, Ganesh Chandra, quite a senior guy, actually. Ganoo Da, obviously; never thought of him. Thanks. Fascinating snippet. I am just a few minutes walk away from there as I type this in.

PS: Did you get the PM?

Joe; I did. But its about Ahoms and Dravidian History. Not my strong point, really.

 

[SQ8]

Truthfully speaking, no, I had not got this side of Tikka Khan at all. That is a very interesting input, albeit, in the light of your further remarks, a blood-curdling one. Who gave the orders? Was it the clique at Dhaka, Rao Farman Ali and others? Or was it direct from West Pakistan, from Yahya himself. Strangely, most accounts of Yahya before he became CMLA talk of him as a soldiers' soldier, although a self-indulgent one. I find it hard to believe that he would give such brutal orders. But then, on the other hand, he was desperate.

What do you think happened? Someone panicked, and ordered this frightfulness, but who was it? Or was it a committee decision? All I know for sure is that a general who later became an extremely successful diplomat withdrew from the situation as soon as he was able to.

I have to confess that I know little about the Pakistani side of things, for several reasons.

For one, it was too close a thing for me to read about in an objective way; all of us were in tears of frustration and anger at Mrs. G. having betrayed the Bengalis and the Bangladeshis. We really hated her for a few months. The preparations were kept very quiet.

For another, after the surrender at Dhaka, there was total disbelief. Thirteen days! That was wizard. The swiftness and completeness was overwhelming. This, against an enemy that had fought hard and very well in 65.

For a third, my uncle the DNI opened up, and gave us snippets of information when he came home (he was operating out of Delhi, but camped frequently in Calcutta, where he had nothing to do with the family). It was hair-raising stuff, and kept us from asking other questions.

Did I mention the celebrations? There is a picture which I have kept away from PDF, because it would be irritating for some to see, a picture of the dinner guests some time in December 71, with the Aroras, Col. Osmani, Jake, Siddhartha Ray, the chief of the refugee camps, and three of us children, posing with my parents, the hosts.

All said and done, it was only Z. A. Khan's The Way It Was which first gave me a flavour of the Pakistani side of the whole thing. Fortunately, it was a brilliant book, written in a laconic, disillusioned style which is quite inimitable. Deadpan, if words can be deadpan, also unsparing.

I said this at length because your comment was quite startling, and completely contrary to impressions one had of Tikka Khan. There is so much to learn.



Oh my God. I get it now. Of course.



I was referring to Sahibzada Yaqub Khan too, in the mention I made in my post.

Joe that is an interesting input. I saw that war from a more distant part of the country. Though I read more about the proceedings and heard a little about it. One of them was a certain Naval Officer known as "Ganooda" among Bengali Officers in the IN (whose family ancestors lived in 1, Lovelock Place) who (if I remember correctly) came back from from superannuation to help organise the Naval wing of the Mukti Bahini. Then as you have mentioned elsewhere (and as Adm.Roy has written about) there was Capt.M.N.Samant who trained and led the frogmen of the MB who used rudimentary things like reeds as breathing tubes to stealthily sabotage river shipping. There was also Cdr.H.K.Mukherjee (who incidentally washed out of the first batch of 13 volunteers to sign up for the Fleet Air Arm) who was with the River Wing of the BSF who set up the River Forces. Interesting times indeed.

About Gen.Tikka Khan and his "bloody reputation", did I miss something? Gen. Yahya Khan somehow never came away with any of that. Though his decadent ways are the stuff of legend, he never displayed the single-mindedness of purpose that a "Butcher" needs to have.
Interestingly, years ago I met a man who was supposed to be a son of "General Rani" in Port Rashid; he happened to be a Dock Supervisor for a Stevedoring Company.

Well, from what I heard of old hands.. The "orders" as they were .. were mixed with the "Sahib" mentality.
Ill recount a story that I have posted here twice before.
A family member of mine who is about three times my age recounts his days as a shipping man in Dhaka in late early/mid 71
He was required to meet a certain Major(or colonel) in the dhaka area but apparently near the river..
Upon his arriving there, the gentlemen(whose picture he painted of typical "Company Raj major" type).. discussed various things related to the shipping business.. And then proceeded to joke around... asking him(my relative).. "kamal sahab.. kabhi bandar ka tamasha dekha hai?".. and then looked outside the compound.. and pointed to a poor bengali guy walking past and asked his soldiers "Isko pakro.. ye kya kar raha hai idhar?"..
Promptly the man was brought in.. and the Officer pelted him with questions(and I am trying to be as verbatim of the account as I can).

"Oye, tu idhar jasoosi karte ho? India ke liye kaam karte ho?"

The Bengali man on his knees joined his hands together..
"Nahin Sahab.. Nahin Sahab... Mein ...xyz hoon .. etc".

"Jhoot bolte ho tum, Jasoos ho tum.. "..

"Nahin sahab".. (now weeping)

"Acha theek hai... Woh darakht dekh rahey ho(referring to a Palm tree).. jao naryal(coconut) tor ke lao".

The Bengali guy (Dhoti and all).. runs to the tree.. climbs it and gets to the top..and is twisting the coconut when this Major pulls out a revolver.. aims.. and shoots. . The man falls flat to the ground..his body is picked up by the soldiers..and thrown into the river.


Now, after hearing other accounts like that.. would you still consider Tikka Khan the center of all evil?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Very sorry. My mistake. I obviously didn't scrub the previous PM clean. Repeating it, cleaned up this time. Give me five minutes, please.

Well, from what I heard of old hands.. The "orders" as they were .. were mixed with the "Sahib" mentality.
Ill recount a story that I have posted here twice before.
A family member of mine who is about three times my age recounts his days as a shipping man in Dhaka in late early/mid 71
He was required to meet a certain Major(or colonel) in the dhaka area but apparently near the river..
Upon his arriving there, the gentlemen(whose picture he painted of typical "Company Raj major" type).. discussed various things related to the shipping business.. And then proceeded to joke around... asking him(my relative).. "kamal sahab.. kabhi bandar ka tamasha dekha hai?".. and then looked outside the compound.. and pointed to a poor bengali guy walking past and asked his soldiers "Isko pakro.. ye kya kar raha hai idhar?"..
Promptly the man was brought in.. and the Officer pelted him with questions(and I am trying to be as verbatim of the account as I can).

"Oye, tu idhar jasoosi karte ho? India ke liye kaam karte ho?"

The Bengali man on his knees joined his hands together..
"Nahin Sahab.. Nahin Sahab... Mein ...xyz hoon .. etc".

"Jhoot bolte ho tum, Jasoos ho tum.. "..

"Nahin sahab".. (now weeping)

"Acha theek hai... Woh darakht dekh rahey ho(referring to a Palm tree).. jao naryal(coconut) tor ke lao".

The Bengali guy (Dhoti and all).. runs to the tree.. climbs it and gets to the top..and is twisting the coconut when this Major pulls out a revolver.. aims.. and shoots. . The man falls flat to the ground..his body is picked up by the soldiers..and thrown into the river.


Now, after hearing other accounts like that.. would you still consider Tikka Khan the center of all evil?

I am stunned. And deeply disturbed.

 

[420canada]

Moderators,

Can you please educate this kid??

you probably dont know of the back lash that happened to the Pakistani troops. if i am not wrong some where beaten to a pulp if i recall so. it was done by Bangladeshis themselves.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Well, from what I heard of old hands.. The "orders" as they were .. were mixed with the "Sahib" mentality.
Ill recount a story that I have posted here twice before.
A family member of mine who is about three times my age recounts his days as a shipping man in Dhaka in late early/mid 71
He was required to meet a certain Major(or colonel) in the dhaka area but apparently near the river..
Upon his arriving there, the gentlemen(whose picture he painted of typical "Company Raj major" type).. discussed various things related to the shipping business.. And then proceeded to joke around... asking him(my relative).. "kamal sahab.. kabhi bandar ka tamasha dekha hai?".. and then looked outside the compound.. and pointed to a poor bengali guy walking past and asked his soldiers "Isko pakro.. ye kya kar raha hai idhar?"..
Promptly the man was brought in.. and the Officer pelted him with questions(and I am trying to be as verbatim of the account as I can).

"Oye, tu idhar jasoosi karte ho? India ke liye kaam karte ho?"

The Bengali man on his knees joined his hands together..
"Nahin Sahab.. Nahin Sahab... Mein ...xyz hoon .. etc".

"Jhoot bolte ho tum, Jasoos ho tum.. "..

"Nahin sahab".. (now weeping)

"Acha theek hai... Woh darakht dekh rahey ho(referring to a Palm tree).. jao naryal(coconut) tor ke lao".

The Bengali guy (Dhoti and all).. runs to the tree.. climbs it and gets to the top..and is twisting the coconut when this Major pulls out a revolver.. aims.. and shoots. . The man falls flat to the ground..his body is picked up by the soldiers..and thrown into the river.


Now, after hearing other accounts like that.. would you still consider Tikka Khan the center of all evil?

@Oscar;
That account is plausible. I've heard some first hand accounts in BD. There is (was) a group of veterans in Chittagong who used to meet in a sweet shop called "Fullkolli" (part of a chain) that I got to meet with who told me similar stories over hot cups of tea and 'Shingaras' (samosas) which were spine-chilling. Just as my encounters with paraplegic (and some quadriplegic) Mukti Bahini youth just after the war who were rendered into that state largely due to 'claymore mines'.

However the question is; at lower levels Officers would have found it hard to indulge if the Higher Command did not sanction if not order such acts. So it is a Command and Control thing. However, there were officers who did not succumb to such desire also; which is a matter of fact.

But finally: War is Hell. And Human Beings have demonstrated that they can be the most blood-thirsty species on the Planet.