Gen Petraeus Debunks Allegations of Duplicity Against Pakistan

[The Sandman]

@LeGenD Thanks. Find it distressing when Pakistani's who appear to be educated say thngs that turn reason on it's gead. Talking of that I just googled @Tiger Genie signature. You know the -

"Nixon: I want the Indians blamed for this, We can't let these goddamn, sanctimonious Indians get away with this. They've pissed on us on Vietnam for 5 years, Henry.Kissinger: Well, we don't know the facts yet. But I'm sure they're not as stupid as the West Pakistanis"

Which he has extracted from this > https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e7/48542.htm but he has conveniently overlooked other comments there. Some gems are -

"Nixon: But these Indians are cowards. Right?


Kissinger: Right. But with Russian backing. You see, the Russians have sent notes to Iran, Turkey, to a lot of countries threatening them. The Russians have played a miserable game."

And

"Nixon: And what do we do? Here they are raping and murdering, and they talk about West Pakistan, these Indians are pretty vicious in there, aren’t they?
Kissinger: Absolutely.


Nixon: Aren’t they killing a lot of these people?

Kissinger: Well, we don’t know the facts yet. But I’m sure [unclear] that they’re not as stupid as the West Pakistanis—they don’t let the press in. The idiot Paks have the press all over their place.

Nixon: Well, the Indians did, oh yes. They brought them in, had pictures of spare tanks and all the rest. Brilliant. Brilliant public relations.

Kissinger: Yeah, but they don’t let them in where the civilians are.

Nixon: Oh, I know. But they let them in to take the good shots. The poor, damn Paks don’t let them in at all.

Kissinger: Or into the wrong places.

Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: The Paks just don’t have the subtlety of the Indians.

Nixon: Well, they don’t lie. The Indians lie. Incidentally, did Irwin carry out my order to call in the Indian Ambassador?

Kissinger: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So if @Tiger Genie believes his signature that Paks are 'stupid' then he ought to accept rest of Kissinger's rant

* Indians are cowards
*I ndian's are liars
* Indian's are rapists

What an awesome find

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Some reason that over the decades since the 1965 war Pakistan has become more and more skilled in hiding its duplicity, especially from the U.S. Naturally this is a weak argument, for even if you can point to such a process it still means you can't definitively finger Pakistan as the culprit in specific instances.

You are essentially making the same point I did - that there is no credible evidence of Pakistani duplicity/complicity.

Trying to establish guilt by claiming that the party alleged to have committed the crimes is 'extremely skilled at hiding all evidence of the crime' is ludicrous. It's no different from the claims made by some Pakistanis that the US is behind terrorism in Pakistan and 'just really skilled at hiding its involvement'.

 

[Tiger Genie]

@Kaptaan Actually I don't think Pakistanis are stupid at all. It was Kissinger's statement. And no you don't have to believe everything somebody says - you can agree on some and disagree on others.

For example, in this very case as facts proved, it was PAK military in BD that was killing and raping their own (then) fellow Pakistanis. So obviously Kissinger had it right about how stupid PAK were and wrong about the Indians.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"During the course of reporting for my book I spoke on the record to, among others, John Brennan, now the CIA director and then President Obama's top counterterrorism adviser; then CIA Director Leon Panetta and his chief of staff, Jeremy Bash; then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton; then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Adm. Mike Mullen; then Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Gen. James Cartwright; then director of the National Counterterrorism Center, Michael Leiter; then senior director for counterterrorism at the National Security Council, Nick Rasmussen; then head of policy at the Pentagon, Michele Flournoy; Michael Vickers, who was then the civilian overseer of Special Operations at the Pentagon; Tony Blinken, who is now the deputy national security adviser; and Denis McDonough, who held that position before Blinken.

These officials have collectively spent many decades working to destroy al Qaeda, and many are deeply suspicious of Pakistan for its continuing support for elements of the Taliban. But all of them told me in one form or another that Pakistani officials had no clue that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/21/opinion/bergen-bin-laden-new-york-times/

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And no you don't have to believe everything somebody says - you can agree on some and disagree on others.

Yeh, the bit you have culled from the US Archive is the one you believe, right?

PAK military in BD that was killing and raping

The extract also shows Indian rape and killing. I don't think I need to quote it here, or do I? it's there for all to read.

So obviously Kissinger had it right about how stupid PAK

The signature you have avoids the reason why Paks are called stupid. Kissinger clearly says the Paks let the media everywhere and who get all the nasty stuff on them whereas Indian's are more subtle - they control the media and only let them see what is positive.

He then goes on to show the Indian's as liar's and cowards.

Naturally this is a weak argument, for even if you can point to such a process it still means you can't definitively finger Pakistan as the culprit in specific instances.

No. Sorry to correct you. This is not weak argument, it is a non existant argument - non sequitur. In the real world if you make a claim like 'duplicity' you have to establish that and then you finger the party concerned.

Or else it becomes la la land. "I think you stole my peanuts". "No I did not and what makes you think I did?". "I know you stole them because I think you did therefore you did and therefore your a liar!


Ahh?

 

[H!TchHiker]

@LeGenD Thanks. Find it distressing when Pakistani's who appear to be educated say thngs that turn reason on it's gead. Talking of that I just googled @Tiger Genie signature. You know the -

"Nixon: I want the Indians blamed for this, We can't let these goddamn, sanctimonious Indians get away with this. They've pissed on us on Vietnam for 5 years, Henry.Kissinger: Well, we don't know the facts yet. But I'm sure they're not as stupid as the West Pakistanis"

Which he has extracted from this > https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/e7/48542.htm but he has conveniently overlooked other comments there. Some gems are -

"Nixon: But these Indians are cowards. Right?


Kissinger: Right. But with Russian backing. You see, the Russians have sent notes to Iran, Turkey, to a lot of countries threatening them. The Russians have played a miserable game."

And

"Nixon: And what do we do? Here they are raping and murdering, and they talk about West Pakistan, these Indians are pretty vicious in there, aren’t they?
Kissinger: Absolutely.


Nixon: Aren’t they killing a lot of these people?

Kissinger: Well, we don’t know the facts yet. But I’m sure [unclear] that they’re not as stupid as the West Pakistanis—they don’t let the press in. The idiot Paks have the press all over their place.

Nixon: Well, the Indians did, oh yes. They brought them in, had pictures of spare tanks and all the rest. Brilliant. Brilliant public relations.

Kissinger: Yeah, but they don’t let them in where the civilians are.

Nixon: Oh, I know. But they let them in to take the good shots. The poor, damn Paks don’t let them in at all.

Kissinger: Or into the wrong places.

Nixon: Yeah.

Kissinger: The Paks just don’t have the subtlety of the Indians.

Nixon: Well, they don’t lie. The Indians lie. Incidentally, did Irwin carry out my order to call in the Indian Ambassador?

Kissinger: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So if @Tiger Genie believes his signature that Paks are 'stupid' then he ought to accept rest of Kissinger's rant

* Indians are cowards
*I ndian's are liars
* Indian's are rapists

This post made my day.....

 

[Indus Pakistan]

This post made my day.....

Can you imagine this nutnob? He has gone to the US Archives and culled one sentance from a whole page removing the context to make it look like Kissinger is calling the Pakistani's stupid and then pasted it as his signature. He overlooked the rest of the contents of the page which state clearly in unambigous terms that Indians are -

*Cowards
*liars
*Duplicitious
*Rapists

And this is from conversations betwen Kissinger and President Nixon. Then he say's believe what you want from it. Okay nutnobs I will. You call Paks 'stupid' and I will go with Indians are 'cowards, liars, rapists'.

 

[H!TchHiker]

Can you imagine this nutnob? He has gone to the US Archives and culled one sentance from a whole page removing the context to make it look like Kissinger is calling the Pakistani's stupid and then pasted it as his signature. He overlooked the rest of the contents of the page which state clearly in unambigous terms that Indians are -

*Cowards
*liars
*Duplicitious
*Rapists

And this is from conversations betwen Kissinger and President Nixon. Then he say's believe what you want from it. Okay nutnobs I will. You call Paks 'stupid' and I will go with Indians are 'cowards, liars, rapists'.

I do believe them they can assume anything.When Harvard graduate being an Indian can say that I will break Pakistan into 4 then believe what rest can imagine.Somebody was saying Pakistan begs US for aid and when it is shown they are the biggest beggar/receiver his reply was east west moon is this sun is that else than logical. Intellectual dishonesty is somehow very common

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I do believe them they can assume anything.When Harvard graduate being an Indian can say that I will break Pakistan into 4 then believe what rest can imagine.Somebody was saying Pakistan begs US for aid and when it is shown they are the biggest beggar/receiver his reply was east west moon is this sun is that else than logical. Intellectual dishonesty is somehow very common

First of all countries don't beg. Beg is very personal word conveying emotion, need and desperation all mixed together. States negotiate their interests and try to cut the best deal they can by chasing self interest. Therefore when Pakistan get's aid from another country is not like some Indian Dalit with distended stomach in Mumbai. It's a state and deals are made in air conditined offices using high powered officials over agreements prepared by high powered lawyers.

And the second thing as you point out India has recieved far more aid than Pakistan from USA - so what is it with the Indian's? Being sanctimonios I guess like Kissinger said all those years ago?

 

[H!TchHiker]

First of all countries don't beg. Beg is very personal word conveying emotion, need and desperation all mixed together. States negotiate their interests and try to cut the best deal they can by chasing self interest. Therefore when Pakistan get's aid from another country is not like some Indian Dalit with distended stomach in Mumbai. It's a state and deals are made in air conditined offices using high powered officials over agreements prepared by high powered lawyers.

And the second thing as you point out India has recieved far more aid than Pakistan from USA - so what is it with the Indian's? Being sanctimonios I guess like Kissinger said all those years ago?

Agreed.. Countries has there own interests as there is no free lunch in today's world.It's two way road..It was just a reply being in the same coin as they pretend to be churchy and self pro-claimed super power...

 

[Tiger Genie]

Yeh, the bit you have culled from the US Archive is the one you believe, right?


The extract also shows Indian rape and killing. I don't think I need to quote it here, or do I? it's there for all to read.

The signature you have avoids the reason why Paks are called stupid. Kissinger clearly says the Paks let the media everywhere and who get all the nasty stuff on them whereas Indian's are more subtle - they control the media and only let them see what is positive.

He then goes on to show the Indian's as liar's and cowards.

May be you don't get it, I will give you the benefit of doubt and try to explain one more time.

* I do not think Pakistanis are stupid because Kissinger said that.
* None of us need Kissinger or anybody to tell us how Pak army killed and raped its own citizenry in BD; BD has not forgotten this and which is why even now their PM presents the picture of Pak military surrender to Modi
* If you are one of those nutcases that claim 9/11 by obl gangsters and BD genocide by Pak military did not occur, there is no point responding to you - pls tell me if that is the case so I can stop wasting my r&r time.

So why do I have KNixon/Kissinger quote in my posts? It is simply to keep reminding a lot of posters here where they stand.

 

[RiazHaq]

#Trump to #Pakistan PM: "You're a terrific guy" "#Pakistanis are amazing, most intelligent and exceptional people” http://time.com/4586503/donald-trump-pakistan-prime-minister-readout-nawaz-sharif/
The full readout of the call, according to the Pakistani government, is below. Trump’s transition team has not released a readout.
Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz Sharif called President-elect USA Donald Trump and felicitated him on his victory. President Trump said Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif you have a very good reputation. You are a terrific guy. You are doing amazing work which is visible in every way. I am looking forward to see you soon. As I am talking to you Prime Minister, I feel I am talking to a person I have known for long. Your country is amazing with tremendous opportunities. Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people. I am ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems. It will be an honor and I will personally do it. Feel free to call me any time even before 20th January that is before I assume my office.
On being invited to visit Pakistan by the Prime Minister, Mr. Trump said that he would love to come to a fantastic country, fantastic place of fantastic people. Please convey to the Pakistani people that they are amazing and all Pakistanis I have known are exceptional people, said Mr. Donald Trump.

 

[cocomo]

May be you don't get it, I will give you the benefit of doubt and try to explain one more time.

* I do not think Pakistanis are stupid because Kissinger said that.
* None of us need Kissinger or anybody to tell us how Pak army killed and raped its own citizenry in BD; BD has not forgotten this and which is why even now their PM presents the picture of Pak military surrender to Modi
* If you are one of those nutcases that claim 9/11 by obl gangsters and BD genocide by Pak military did not occur, there is no point responding to you - pls tell me if that is the case so I can stop wasting my r&r time.

So why do I have KNixon/Kissinger quote in my posts? It is simply to keep reminding a lot of posters here where they stand.

No sane person can have honest discussion with filth like you people really. Utterly shameless. Thank God we are looking Westwards and will be dealing with reasonable people.

 

[TMA]

@LeGenD Thanks. Find it distressing when Pakistani's who appear to be educated say thngs that turn reason on it's gead. Talking of that I just googled @Tiger Genie signature. You know the -

Do not make the mistake of Iblis. He put reason above all else due to his arrogance. This is not to say reason is useless, indeed the Quran exhorts man to use this faculty however it is not the be all and end all.
Today's world is a world of deception. Appearance and reality are not necessarily the same thing. To fully penetrate this, it requires a wholistic integration of reason (the external eye so to speak) and spirituality (the internal eye).

Are you aware of the hadith that suggests that Dajjal will emerge from Khorasan?

For reference: https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/147

And Iranian Jews will be his main followers: https://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/19/5

Are you aware of methodology?
Are you aware of the ayah that implies that Iblis was/is an angel?
Surah Al Araf Verse 11.


وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَاكُمْ ثُمَّ صَوَّرْنَاكُمْ ثُمَّ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ لَمْ يَكُن مِّنَ السَّاجِدِينَ

"And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated."

 

[LeGenD]

Are you aware of methodology?
Are you aware of the ayah that implies that Iblis was/is an angel?
Surah Al Araf Verse 11.


وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَاكُمْ ثُمَّ صَوَّرْنَاكُمْ ثُمَّ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ لَمْ يَكُن مِّنَ السَّاجِدِينَ

"And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated."

I am not sure what Iblees has to do with my point.

You used the logic of Dajjal to justify lack of recognition of Israel. I pointed out to you the relevant hadith that disclose the point of origin of Dajjal and identity of his true followers. I know man, truth is often hard to digest. Good luck.