Florida Pulse gay club attacked in Orlando - 50 dead and 53 injured

[Viper0011.]

When "Christians" kill it's a nutjob's work. When a "muslim" kills it must be due to his faith he did it. Explain the logic, this exact mentality feeds well into the fundamentalist in both extremes

Is that right? Tell me why this guy killed so many innocents? Tell me what the Fu** ISIS is doing all across? Tell me what the hell California shooters did before the killing spree began? That couple left their little child in the world and abandoned her, for the rest of her life, that child will hear what? Your parents abandoned you to commit terrorism????

And is this the first time a "Muslim" has killed in America?? How many other incidents do we see where callers either openly declare links to other terrorist organizations (like this bast*ard did to 911 officers) or tell them that they are mentally retarded to go kill??

This is ALL due to funding provided by the KSA. Wahabi version of Islam funded in billions has resulted in this. It started from Afghanistan, destroyed Pakistan for decades and is now in Syria and other places and now US has become a target too. Show me in the course of the past year, other religions doing so much mass murder in the name of another religion??

By the way, you never know, I may be a Muslim from African descent......so you aren't talking to a typical American white guy who doesn't know how the globe works........I know it all.... how the religious killing machines have worked from Afghanistan to Africa to Middle East.

But they don't need to come to America if they hate us so much. In fact, these 50 or 100 people, are making life difficult for the American Muslim population who have lived here since early 1900!!!!. We welcomed Muslim refugees in recent times, and gave all of them a path to success and this is what is returned back to the same system who cared and provided these people with opportunity that they could never have in the hell hole they came from (Afghanistan, ME, etc)??

 

[Zulkarneyn]

This is ALL due to funding provided by the KSA. Wahabi version of Islam funded in billions has resulted in this. It started from Afghanistan, destroyed Pakistan for decades and is now in Syria and other places and now US has become a target too. Show me in the course of the past year, other religions doing so much mass murder in the name of another religion?

Yeah you answered your own question. Religion can not on its own animate atrocities, how these religions are interpreted by interested parties lead people to do these atrocities. And YES it is WAHABISM funded by KSA that feeds into feeble minds everywhere. American invasion into Iraq and ruining that country, creating a vacuum for these extreme ideologies led us to where we are today buddy. If you truly want to end this virus, start by recognizing your own mistakes and then proceed from thence. Perhaps if the USA stops its relations with the KSA we could've seen some changes.

 

[Manticore]

RIP to the dead.

 

[livingdead]

RIP to the dead,

come on.. dont leave us with a cliffhanger ...

 

[Clutch]

Actually, the Jewish religion doesn't consider ANY religion to be an abrahamic religion.

The Jewish religion simply doesn't recoginize the term 'abrahamic religion'.

Exactly my point. Any preceding religion will never recognize the proceeding religion... especially if the proceeding come under the pretext of reforming the former.

I've never heard of conservatives killing gays.

gay bashing is pretty much a myth.

Hitler did it in mass

 

[Viper0011.]

Yeah you answered your own question. Religion can not on its own animate atrocities, how these religions are interpreted by interested parties lead people to do these atrocities. And YES it is WAHABISM funded by KSA that feeds into feeble minds everywhere. American invasion into Iraq and ruining that country, creating a vacuum for these extreme ideologies led us to where we are today buddy. If you truly want to end this virus, start by recognizing your own mistakes and then proceed from thence. Perhaps if the USA stops its relations with the KSA we could've seen some changes.

Yup, all this is coming. Let Trump come and this will happen. I'd expect Muslims will be much less in numbers when he comes. And I think this incident further strengthened his position on this issue. Can you blame him or the Americans for feeling this way?? No, you can't. When they allowed these people in, this is the payback of providing care and a future to these people??

American isn't next to Iraq or Afghanistan. These effing people came here, went through the process and were given opportunity at life that they otherwise wouldn't have in their own hell-like country. And this is the pay back? This isn't about wars. This is about people who CAME to the US for an opportunity and the USA gave it to them. Allowed these displaced people to use the system, welfare, benefits, etc, etc. And this is the payoff we get!!

 

[Clutch]

Is that right? Tell me why this guy killed so many innocents? Tell me what the Fu** ISIS is doing all across? Tell me what the hell California shooters did before the killing spree began? That couple left their little child in the world and abandoned her, for the rest of her life, that child will hear what? Your parents abandoned you to commit terrorism????

And is this the first time a "Muslim" has killed in America?? How many other incidents do we see where callers either openly declare links to other terrorist organizations (like this bast*ard did to 911 officers) or tell them that they are mentally retarded to go kill??

This is ALL due to funding provided by the KSA. Wahabi version of Islam funded in billions has resulted in this. It started from Afghanistan, destroyed Pakistan for decades and is now in Syria and other places and now US has become a target too. Show me in the course of the past year, other religions doing so much mass murder in the name of another religion??

By the way, you never know, I may be a Muslim from African descent......so you aren't talking to a typical American white guy who doesn't know how the globe works........I know it all.... how the religious killing machines have worked from Afghanistan to Africa to Middle East.

But they don't need to come to America if they hate us so much. In fact, these 50 or 100 people, are making life difficult for the American Muslim population who have lived here since early 1900!!!!. We welcomed Muslim refugees in recent times, and gave all of them a path to success and this is what is returned back to the same system who cared and provided these people with opportunity that they could never have in the hell hole they came from (Afghanistan, ME, etc)??

Well if you for decades drop bombs on people, or don't value lives of others as highly as some others, or use covert measures to overthrow governments, or support oppressive governments... expect s backlash or just stop acting like a 5 year old.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Yup, all this is coming. Let Trump come and this will happen. I'd expect Muslims will be much less in numbers when he comes. And I think this incident further strengthened his position on this issue. Can you blame him or the Americans for feeling this way?? No, you can't. When they allowed these people in, this is the payback of providing care and a future to these people??

American isn't next to Iraq or Afghanistan. These effing people came here, went through the process and were given opportunity at life that they otherwise wouldn't have in their own hell-like country. And this is the pay back? This isn't about wars. This is about people who CAME to the US for an opportunity and the USA gave it to them. Allowed these displaced people to use the system, welfare, benefits, etc, etc. And this is the payoff we get!!

I've lived most of my life in Denmark. I can't be politically correct forever so im gonna say it. Turks are Sunni Muslims as well, but i've never seen a Turk who baosted with the benefits he/she got from the system and they were grateful for the oppurtunities. This is due to Turkey being somewhat developed compared to the rest of the Middle East, and i remind you Turkey is 99% Muslim as well.

I don't think this has much to do with the religion Islam. This is mostly due to the backwardness of these countries from Middle East. Islam feeds into the grievances of these people who were brought up under the worst circumstances, and the availability of Wahabism and its extremity is easily indoctrinated in these areas where the youth got no job, no education and fed with anti-West ideas 24/7. You don't solve this problem by bombing these countries back to the stone age, these are human beings, they recreate and they remember. You solve it by cutting the head of the snake, Wahabism. Trace it, fight it with every means. Support the countries most influential and powerful in the region = Turkey.

 

[Clutch]

Yup, all this is coming. Let Trump come and this will happen. I'd expect Muslims will be much less in numbers when he comes. And I think this incident further strengthened his position on this issue. Can you blame him or the Americans for feeling this way?? No, you can't. When they allowed these people in, this is the payback of providing care and a future to these people??

American isn't next to Iraq or Afghanistan. These effing people came here, went through the process and were given opportunity at life that they otherwise wouldn't have in their own hell-like country. And this is the pay back? This isn't about wars. This is about people who CAME to the US for an opportunity and the USA gave it to them. Allowed these displaced people to use the system, welfare, benefits, etc, etc. And this is the payoff we get!!

I think the shooter was born in the usa... now what generous immigration officer?

 

[SQ8]

How about we just agree to disagree, I made my points, you disputed them, but at same time won't allow to respond as you're threatening to remove my posts if I do respond. And now that you allowed to me put forth some sources, from a mainstream site(which I chose thinking that will be all you accept), you now dismiss the site and the sources. And express dismay with 'copy paste' the evidence, as if there is any other way to reference the Hadith or Quran verses.



God destroyed the tribe of Lot and his community for the 'lustful desires' or the gay ones. I'm not sure what's confusing about the story.



No that is not what happened, Lot was commanded by God to give his people an ultimatum. He warned them and what not, then they threatened to drive him out, but didn't, and rather mocked him. So God destroyed them:

“Bring God’s torment upon us if you are one of the truthful.” (Quran 29:29)
“And when Our messengers [i.e., angels] came to Abraham with the good tidings, they said, “Indeed, we will destroy the people of that [i.e., Lot’s] city. Indeed, its people have been wrongdoers.” (Quran 29:31)




Tirmidi is not weak or poorly based Hadith, it is actually one of six 'Saheeh' books Sunni's use. Sunan Abu Dawood is also one of those six, authentic hadith, and here is that ruling:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: If you find anyone doing as Lot’s people did, kill the one who does it, and the one to whom it is done.
Sunan of Abu-Dawood – Book 38 Hadith 4447

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.
Sunan of Abu-Dawood – Book 38 Hadith 4448
....

Take hadith out, Islam no longer becomes a way of life and just becomes a collection of stories to ponder upon. So your approach makes no sense if you genuinely believe there is more to your supposedly divine religion than just some stories. If you believe religion is man made and should have no influence on state, lifestyle, personal choices, etc....then I don't get the point of pretending to be a Muslim.



You would not know anything about the lifestyle of the Prophet had it not been for Hadith. So I'm dismissing your Quran only approach. Hadith is very essential to Islam, without it, 50% if not more of the religion would be missing.

And I'm not trying to convince non-Muslims of anything. My initial argument was actually intended to defend Muslims from attacks on their religion by people adhering to other Abrahamic faiths, that attacks Islam for 'backwards' lifestyle, 'barbaric laws', etc....When their own religions actually command putting to death gays for one example.

Now I'm just proving the hypocrisy of Muslims, Jews and Christians, all that use the same scripture, that are in denial about their religions. And they do a lot of cutting/pasting, to form new books, to give them moral high ground against other people(in this case Islam), to claim Islam is a Satanic religion and the rest are the true religions brought down by God. Like I said, 90% of you don't even know your religions, the ones that do don't bother following them. It's hypocrisy at it's best. Nobody like that impresses me, they can reap token points all they want, I'm straightforward and honest, which is why I don't use religion for personal benefit, and thereby declared myself agnostic-atheist.

Again, someone who spent his time actually reading rather than trying to just get as much writing in the post would realise that I only disputed the sources of that particular hadiath.. and nowhere mentioned to reject them outright or otherwise. But again, that is the mark of someone actually here for debate and not someone out there to spew out as much rhetoric as they can within a short timeframe, and hardly of anyone claiming to be "straightforward" and "honest".

The rest of your post is all tangential and semantics in repetition without even addressing what I put forward. The fact that you confirmed that it was god who took it upon himself to take care of sodom instead of the prophet only reinforces my point.

So I can only conclude that you are no different than the supposed bigotry you are being self righteous in defending and instead are also here to just spew nonsense without understanding; no different than any trump supporter.

 

[VCheng]

even if its a Muslim then what? or a Pakistani then so what? do I need to stand trial ?
do we need to apologise for him? I dont feel compelled to have to explain myself. a Saudi never feels ashamed or compelled to explain himself for Daesh mass beheading or bombings in the world.

the law US enforcement agencies failed to prevent the incident and failed to stop him before the slaughter


you need to wait until @Syed.Ali.Haider brings us more information

Let the rhetoric and panic die down first. A rational analysis of the profiles involved will reveal much to LEOs to further improve detection and prevention of future attacks. That is the way the process works. The political hysteria in an election year will go on as before, but that is only superficial.

 

[Zibago]

Let the rhetoric and panic die down first. A rational analysis of the profiles involved will reveal much to LEOs to further improve detection and prevention of future attacks. That is the way the process works. The political hysteria in an election year will go on as before, but that is only superficial.

May this be the incident which results in Americans finally start implementing tougher gun laws and outlaw auto rifles for civis cuz thats the only way to prevent future incidents like this
This incident was a lone wolf type attack gun control is the only way to minimize future incidents like this

 

[Hyperion]

RIP. This will give Donald Trump extra firepower for the office of POTUS. Get ready for Pakistan to be blamed, one way or the other.

 

[Falcon29]

@waz do you think we could get the thread cleaned up or closed? It's gone waaaaaayyyyy off topic and devolved into a religious discussion.

Thanks.

It evolved into a discussion regarding the motive/public aftermath relating to the incident, which is totally on topic. I'm not sure what it is you didn't like about my posts, can you clarify clearly? @Kaptaan seemed to understand the point I was getting across, and also another think tank.

As for the specific motives, nobody here pinned it on religion. We may not know exactly what feelings the guy had or if we had a mental breakdown or what. All we know is he did it in the name of ISIS, appearing politically motivated, maybe due to ISIS's recent decline. However, we don't know if he was that way for awhile or just had a moment to lash out for whatever reasons. So we are not speculating, but the rest was relevant discussion.

Again, someone who spent his time actually reading rather than trying to just get as much writing in the post would realise that I only disputed the sources of that particular hadiath.. and nowhere mentioned to reject them outright or otherwise. But again, that is the mark of someone actually here for debate and not someone out there to spew out as much rhetoric as they can within a short timeframe, and hardly of anyone claiming to be "straightforward" and "honest".

Before I had a discussion with you about Hadith, and now you made it clear you'd prefer Quranic sources, which made me assume you only consider those legitimate, so my mistake if I made an unfair assumption. Regarding the Hadith, I did give you the sources. One was Sunan Tirhmidi, the other Sunan Abu Dawood, one of the 6 most reliable books as far as Sunni's goes. The two most authentic are Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim obviously, that doesn't mean the rest aren't. Each play their own role.

My rhetoric regarding Hadith was fair, because as I said it appeared you reject Hadith. At this point though, I'm not sure what else you're asking me for?

 

[Viper0011.]

RIP. This will give Donald Trump extra firepower for the office of POTUS. Get ready for Pakistan to be blamed, one way or the other.

Absolutely. In fact, I think this sad and tragic incident just gave Donald Trump edge over everyone else. He may have already won. This will create much more distance between Muslims and the remainder of America. I've seen analyses that a huge Muslim migration is expected. Sad part is, only due to a few fu**ing mofo retards actions against humanity, millions other from the same faith will suffer in some way, whether its social isolation, job discrimination, etc, etc. Very sad.

Muslim leaders around the world need to take tougher actions on these crazy fu**ing mullahs who teach this nonsense, radical and inhumane version of Islam. While we hear the slogan "Islam is a peaceful religion"...does it feel so??