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Feminism - Equality when it suits "her"

Based on the information given in this article, do you think that ..

  • Feminism should not be encouraged as it only takes women's issues in to account

    Votes: 7 14.6%
  • Feminists need to broaden the scope of their movement to include men's issues

    Votes: 3 6.3%
  • Men's rights movements should bring more attantion to the that issues men face

    Votes: 5 10.4%
  • A gender role framework should be adopted as it is based on compromise and not competetion

    Votes: 8 16.7%
  • A movement such as "equalism" should cater to both men's and women's rights

    Votes: 25 52.1%

  • Total voters
    48
As far as your "argument" goes .. that most LAWS still favor men (ironically in your reply you didn't cite one SINGLE law as an example for that), but since you say that, lemme take the example of US, a state with large influence of feminism.
1) Do I need to give an example? It is a fact not something rare..I will assume your ignorance is high on the matter (I give you benefit of doubt)

2) As for high feminism I suggest you take a look at Scandinavia or Canada as a better example. Pou par khulhara matt maro!

It is generally assumed women in America are better off than women in other countries.

In some respects, that is true, but there is still quite a bit of gender inequality in this country, as a UN delegation discovered this month.

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2015/12/five_reasons_why_gender_inequa.html

For 2015:

The findings? Although we have indeed experienced progress toward gender equity, it’s likely that we won’t see equal pay for American women within our lifetime.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ariel...en-inequality-takes-many-forms_b_7064348.html

Equality in pay has improved in the US since 1979 when women earned about 62 percent as much as men. In 2010, American women on average earned 81 percent of what their male counterparts earned.

Women’s participation in the U.S. labor force climbed during the 1970s and 1980s, reaching 60 percent in 2000. However, in 2010 this figure has declined to 46.7 percent and is not expected to increase by 2018

http://www.ilo.org/washington/areas/gender-equality-in-the-workplace/WCMS_159496/lang--en/index.htm


I will reply rest next time ...Need to go to the lab...
 
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The feminists - the ones with any sort of influence and power - do not want equality.
I already stated the obvious in the 1st sentence of the very post you quoted ;)
And please, most laws are not male friendly. In fact, it's starting to look more and more like they are female friendly.
You from Canada stating that is interesting!

Yes they want to make laws and statistics known that show that men face just as much if not more oppression. But their stats are coming from well known sources such as US department of labour, department of justice, etc.
Yes but if you have a look their stat is also coming from poorly read articles which have both sides of the story but they choose a side to share!

In the US, more than 10% of combat roles are occupied by women.
And that 10% is supposed to somehow out number the 90% who get mentally traumatized?

There are MORE women employed in the US than men. One statistic that OP didn't mention, 90%+ of workplace fatalities are men. Again, MORE women than men are employed in the US.
May we see you statistics for this claim?

I think the point is if 90% of suicides were committed by women then we would have had a crisis on our hands that we needed to solve yesterday, and would have have been a symbol of male oppression.
Well, the fact still remains if 90% were women that would be the future of the whole nation at stake since men cant carry a baby to term! And that is a fact that even ALLAH acknowledged (as a Muslim) by calling the womb the same derivative as his name RAHIM! So be thankful it isnt 90% for women!

As for a symbol of male oppression or not that is up to the men killing themselves to decide many do it due to job stress rather than anything to blame a woman or a law about!

Was there a point you are trying to prove? Just because women have a greater chance of being killed by a spouse or intimate partner, should we overlook the fact that vast majority of homicide victims are men?
Well, the chance of being killed by someone you know is higher than being killed by a random stranger....

Well the opposite was what OP was pointing out, wasnt it?
Just concentrate on men and overlook the fact that a woman also faces her own set of problems...
OR
Just highlight men face problems without showing the other side of the coin which is women also face problems which even in the 1st world country are not acknowledged best case would be the recent release of a rapist in USA despite having proof and witness! The humiliation of a woman when she is denied justice even WITH PROOF!

Btw, this number is not that different today tha it was in 87.
I think the article would have pointed the latest number if it was favouring men ;)

There was not much feminism in 87? You are clearly clueless about feminism if you think there was not much feminism in 1987. Second, this data still holds true today.
What you call "rise of feminism in the early 70s" is not the same as today! Back then it was still screaming and fighting and now it is more established!

So things got slightly better for men. Good news. OTOH, feminists don't seem to care unless women are far better than men in every way.
Honestly speaking, you just demonstrated that men don't seem to care unless men are far better than women in every way...Doesnt that kind of show psychological projection at play?

Yet this has been observed in every crime out there, and it's always against men. If it was random, then in some cases, it should have gone against women, and the difference should have not been as stark as 63%.
So she claiming her own data not sufficient to prove much yet you insist you know better about her research than her? interesting!

1) You are using a single teacher's opinion to disprove a study
You think only 1 teacher thinks that way?

That because middle school or high school girls MAY be pregnant, (probably a very remote chance at a given time), let's give them lesser punishment.
Like I said it is psychology and one's right not to feel extreme hate (like you) and feel empathy.

Women are physiologically difference so let's punish them less.
And that is a fact of science which you cant change!

if 75% of homeless were women, regardless of being veterans, we'd have had a crisis on our hands that needed to be resolved yesterday.
I am pointing out facts learn to understand them first!


Yup, this is everything that feminists do. Play whatever card that's necessary to instill more privilege for women.
And the article in OP did the same for men but I dont see you going crazy about it. Maybe you need to understand equality before pointing fingers at 1 end of the spectrum and accepting the other end of the spectrum blindly!

I analyzed the article critically. The fact that this article was chosen over many others put it in the lime light to be critically reviewed. The fact that I had to counter some points with an eye opener was because the article was put forward but because I am countering some points doesnt mean that is my view but those are just counter arguments you going crazy about them shows you are channeled by extreme thoughts!

The only thing you appear to be good at is playing mental and word gymnastics and making men's issues seem trivial but if women had the same issue it would have been all about male oppression and stuff.

To do what,dissect a man?:sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:
lolz...I am not a human geneticist :p:
 
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It's bit stupid post and with bit graphic content, but it make a lot of sense. How modern Feminism is spoiling Women and forcing them to become which they cannot/should not become.

13512173_1854768334750854_7927753467853176939_n.jpg


1stly,
I do agree feminism has taken a different direction but just like most of the laws were/ are male friendly...the feminists show that other laws need to be added coz the "current" ones arent covering everyone (female are human too). However, what feminists do want is equal treatment ....they would like to be taken seriously or at least for the sake that they are still human beings! There is no doubt that they cant be equal in EVERY aspect but in terms of respect they shouldnt need to demand it!

Just because there are some feminist groups that demand rights (respect) it doesnt mean that the old laws are overlooked or rewritten....they still are available to whoever wants to search and use them. By adding laws old ones dont get overwritten!

Lastly, about the stats..

You do know that the groups where you got your stats from such as "http://www.avoiceformen.com/

"/ http://thedisabilityguys.com/ ( where your stats came from) is also not about gender equality and ONLY cries for men? So how can you use them as a statistic "proof" when you are claiming feminism doing the same thing is fraud?

Yet the article does exactly that by leaving the stats hanging like that!

And then lets look at the stats present:

- counted from Gulf war when women werent popular at such posts to get killed in the first place! The first 2-3 decades in the count already spiked the stats enough to show it skewed and not a good representation of a case!

Do you know the % of men to women in American combat? Lets say there are 20 ducks and 2 sparrows flying when xyz is shooting, the chance that a duck gets shot would be higher - common sense nothing to be surprised about! REALLY!



So lets take a look at the stats:
According to the website In 2008, 94% of workplace suicides were committed by men. In the year 2008, what was thre ratio of men to women working? If the women were/are not at employed at the same rate then how can they do suicide at the same rate? Not sure how that was to help your case?

And the explanation on the same website states that :




This one I clearly object to as well....There is no equality in this obscure law and I had posted and article here regarding it and was ridiculed but yes I agree this law is very skewed!


In 2011, middle-aged adults accounted for the largest proportion of suicides (56%), and from 1999-2010, the suicide rate among this group increased by nearly 30%.5

As for women most of the time they prob end up in honor killings (Asian families and some wild villagers) or angry ex (not unheard off - as some psychologists say that itself is done for some mental honor that doesnt get the title honor killing)

It would be useful to have a look at what is causing it- almost all leads to mental instability...not sure if women scare themselves to seek help or the ego of men dont allow them to seek help
Risk factors for suicide include:
• Previous suicide attempt(s) • History of depression or other mental illness • Alcohol or drug abuse • Family history of suicide or violence • Physical illness • Feeling alone

Again I am not sure how one's mental health can be brought into the equation....In the west there is a concept of personal space so unless you talk about your depression people arent going to hand you free help!

Overall, suicide rates varied by the level of educational attainment. Persons with the highest educational attainment had the lowest rates, those with the lowest educational attainment had intermediate rates, and those who had completed only the equivalent of high school (or 12 years of education) had the highest rates.



From the abstract of the study itself you can stop wallowing in self pity :)

we analyzed Federal Bureau of Investigation Uniform Crime Reports data on homicides that occurred in the United States between 1976 and 1987. Only cases that involved victims aged 15 years or older were included. Persons killed during law enforcement activity and cases in which the victim's gender was not recorded were excluded. A total of 215,273 homicides were studied, 77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims. Although the overall risk of homicide for women was substantially lower than that of men (rate ratio [RR] = 0.27), their risk of being killed by a spouse or intimate acquaintance was higher (RR = 1.23).

What is data from 1987 trying to proof? There was not much feminism then....


Very misleading indeed...This is what the link suggests which was somehow overlooked by OP :

In 2010, males experienced violent victimizations by strangers at nearly twice the rate of females (figure 2). The rate of violence against males by strangers was 9.5 victimizations per 1,000 males in 2010 compared to 4.7 victimizations per 1,000 females. In 1993, the rate for males (56.9 violent victimizations per 1,000 males age 12 or older) was nearly three times the rate for females (19.6 per 1,000 females). From 1993 to 2010, males experienced a larger decline (83%) than females (76%) in the rate of violence committed by strangers.



Study clearly states this:

Prof. Starr emphasized that it is not possible to "prove" gender discrimination with data like hers, because it is always possible that two seemingly similar cases could differ in ways not captured by the data. Given the size of the apparent gender gap and the richness of the dataset (which allowed many alternative explanations to be explored), however, Starr believes that there is "pretty good reason to suspect that disparate treatment may be one of the causes of this gap."

So bringing such a study in is actually going raise more questions then acceptance of the theory being presented here!


Ok this is also sort of explained in the article itself:

One high school teacher suggested one possible reason for the gender disparity in paddling, noting that at her school it was common practice to “stay away from hitting the girls. I guess they’re more fragile, and a lot of them could be pregnant and we wouldn’t know it.”
-Physiologically women are different from men.



Interesting enough the article states:
The US Interagency Council on Homelessness estimates that of the chronically homeless 75% are male. One third of those are veterans. In case you are wondering 97% of the homeless vets are male.

Well, veterans - esp more than 3-4 decades ago- not many female were in that field so I am sorry if women who didnt get a chance to work in the army didnt end up homeless or mentally ill and thrown out of their homes....

Seriously, this comparison is really desperate issue...Have you checked the % of desperation ratio...I am almost certain it is higher in men than women! ;)
@Akheilos !!! -- Nice to see you again .. and I hope your doing fine ...

As far as your "argument" goes .. that most LAWS still favor men (ironically in your reply you didn't cite one SINGLE law as an example for that), but since you say that, lemme take the example of US, a state with large influence of feminism. You'd expect since there is a feminist influence, hence there should be equality ... atleast in the legal framework of things ... but .. NOT REALLY! .... However ...unlike you .. I'll give you examples..
Women in the US, by LAW have the choice in parenthood. They can abort a fetus, they can surrender the child for adoption, or they can surrender an infant under safe haven laws and walk away with no responsibility whatsoever. What about men .. No choice for them now is there ? They have to pay child support for 18 years otherwise bye bye freedom .. your going to jail .. There even have been cases where men, who aren't biologically related with a child were forced to pay child support and landed in jail because they couldn't. Heck I'll tell you about an even more interesting case. A case where a woman literally raped a kid (14 years at the time) and then sued him for child support. You want to talk about women being human beings which NO ONE in their right mind would EVER deny yet you want to put a tape on your eyes when there is discrimination against the opposite sex no matter what is the price they end up paying ... because god forbid .. men are human beings as well.... Modern feminism ... and it's version of equality at display ... But then again, it's hard to expect fair treatment from a movement whose icons like Emmeline Pankhurst during the suffrage movement were busy handing out white feathers to young kids so that they can go to war and die ..
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/
http://lawnewz.com/video/man-legall...pport-even-after-dna-test-proves-hes-not-dad/
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/man-faces-jail-paying-child-support-child/


Hmm .. interesting point. I would take you on your word for it but then again I know better then to take a feminist of all people on their word. The article quoted a total of 16 links and a video. So that's 17 links in totality ... Out of those 17 links .. 4 are from "http://www.avoiceformen.com" ... One was from http://thedisabilityguys.com.
I quoted a master link from the "realseximproject" which had a collection of all such statistics.

Now my dear friend, Out of the 17 links of this thread ... you've literally accounted for 5 of them from these alleged "biased websites" ... which on a good day is just a little over 29%. The rest of the links involve "human rights watch", "University of Michigan", "US department of Justice, bureau of justice statistics", a research document from "NCBI", "the telegraph", the website of "CNBC", "NYtimes", "Forbes", and the "International Business times". All of them "MRA advocates" I assume ..
What's even more funny is that, the links given in the articles by the likes of these "biased MRA websites" come from "United states inter agency council on homelessness" which further quote " The U.S Dept. of Housing and Urban development". Other stats come from the CDC and other reputable institutes ... which basically makes your point of "bias-ness" moot.

Coming to your argument about how men's rights are

How many times have you seen MRA's saying that "MRM is for women as well" .. I've not ... Why ? because it's a reactionary movement which is literally about men's rights". Michael A. Messner writes in his book "Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements" that
" Early men's rights texts were similar to early men's liberationist texts in that they tended to argue that both men and women have been hurt by sexism, but men's rights differed in the fact that they tended to place much great emphasis on the costs of masculinity then on the problems faced by women. By the late 1970's and early 1980's men's rights discourse had all but eliminated the gender symmetry of men's liberation in favor of a more overt and angry anti-feminist backlash" ...
In essence, Men's rights movement is a backlash movement to feminism, (whose second and third wave promised equality for all, yet failed to deliver in the case of men) unlike feminism whose literature is about "how feminism can help men" yet in practice it's the complete opposite ...

Feminism is a fraud because it claimed one thing yet did another, the MRA's did not ..


Except the sparrows in this case had a movement which said every sparrow is equal to a duck. The sparrows advocated for and in most cases got laws that were more equal in nature. Except the sparrows were a cunning bunch, they never touched the law which only forced the ducks to sign up to go in to areas. which had hunters in them ..
Look up the selective service and you'll get what I'm talking about. It's 2016, more then half a century with the second and third wave ... yet it's only now that we see a bill that also requires women to sign up for the draft, except whether it becomes a law and is activated in 2018, is still to be seen.


Actually the data does exist, according to the World bank statistics, -- the ratio of female to male workers in the U.S in 08 was 81.6% which basically means for every thousand male workers there were 816 female workers. Now lets say a 100 workers committed suicide ... out of these 100, 94 happened to be men ...A good indicator of equality right ?
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FM.ZS


Good to know...

I find it very amusing, that even in a statistic, which speaks of the fact that an OVERWHELMING majority of suicide victims are men. A statistic used to prove in this thread that feminists who claim to be for equality, who say that men can benefit from feminism as well. These same feminists don't do jack for male issues, in fact in your case ... outright go out trying to deny their severity.
Thank you for practically proving that point for me, by bringing up another issue (honor killing) ... as a response to a statistic that shows the suicides victims are 80% of the time, men.
According to the CDC"Males take their own lives at nearly four times the rate of females and represent 77.9% of all suicides."
http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/suicide-datasheet-a.PDF
Heck a similar percentage is observed in Australlia ..
https://www.psychology.org.au/inpsych/2012/august/beaton/


Great going, except you forgot to bold one sentence from the same abstract ... Here lemme show you ..
"A total of 215,273 homicides were studied, 77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims"
I don't know if I find it amusing or not ... but the fact that out of a 100 homicide victims, an overwhelming majority of them being men i.e. 77, and Feminists like yourself are more concerned with the likelihood that for the 23 female victims, the people committing the homicides were more likely intimate partners ... Are you even serious ? Or is that male victims of a crime don't qualify as victims because equality can go to hell when its men facing the short end of the stick ...


Pfft .. seriously ? women's suffrage movements had started in different parts of Europe in the early 1900's. The second wave of feminism had emerged from the 60's to the 80's and yet there was "not much feminism around" ..:crazy:


You forgot to bold this little sentence ..
"In 2010, males experienced violent victimizations by strangers at nearly twice the rate of females"
Let's put this in clear terms ... you think that a slightly larger decline for men as being the victims of violence committed by strangers, is much more favorable to men --- even when the statistics explicitly show that men are STILL twice as likely to be the victims compared to women ...


Again, bolding out statements which you think support you while blatantly ignoring the very next sentence.. i.e.
"Given the size of the apparent gender gap and the richness of the dataset (which allowed many alternative explanations to be explored), however, Starr believes that there is "pretty good reason to suspect that disparate treatment may be one of the causes of this gap."
But then again, this isn't the only study proving a bias in criminal courts .. there have been others as well .. like the following ..
http://journalistsresource.org/stud...-justice/courts-lenient-sentencing-bond-women
https://works.bepress.com/gang_lee/5/


Does this explanation change the fact that most kids receiving corporal punishment are male? and here I thought that treating women different from men because of physiology was termed sexist ... Wasn't gender a "social construct" -- atleast thats what I heard from feminists ..


It's funny how equality is such a subjective term for feminists like yourself. When its the top 10% of the men, Board of directors, CEO's, positions of political power ... feminists are quick to call out ... "look at the discrimination" ... "There is sexism, glass ceiling etc." ... yet when the reverse is in position where the positions require you to actually do the dirty work ... Well don't want that part of equality now do we ...

You have as always PROVEN NOTHING, your rebuttal is you picking and choosing statements which you think discredit a point ... yet they don't ...
The point of this whole thread was to expose how feminists especially go about talking for equality, yet when its men who are suffering ... they DO NOTHING ... You hiding behind your baseless "arguments" PROVES my point .. Thank you and have a nice day! ...
I am impressed to see patience which you people have with typing so lengthy arguments .... :D
 
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I think you have to distinguish between different kinds of feminism. Early twentieth century feminism was about creating opportunities for women: the right to vote, the right to have control over your own property, the right to be educated etc. Modern feminism pretends that there are no innate differences between men and women and that there should be equality in absolutely everything which is impossible. Putting women on the front line in war is the latest stupid idea which is going to get a lot of men killed.
 
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I am impressed to see patience which you people have with typing so lengthy arguments .... :D
I remember @Akheilos telling that she held a research position and I've been in to research since my Bachelors ... so .. it's more or less a habit .. shouldn't really come as a surprise ...
1) Do I need to give an example? It is a fact not something rare..I will assume your ignorance is high on the matter (I give you benefit of doubt)
Yeah I know there might be some laws that are sexist against women .. I was just saying that while examples have been included in the first post and after that .. an example by you would've been appreciated instead of writing a sentence which is backed up by no example and is presented as a universal fact ..
2) As for high feminism I suggest you take a look at Scandinavia or Canada as a better example. Pou par khulhara matt maro!
Actually the video that was included in the Opening post, which showed feminist protestors cursing people and derailing an event that simply wanted to discuss men's issues ... that video is from Canada ...

It is generally assumed women in America are better off than women in other countries.

In some respects, that is true, but there is still quite a bit of gender inequality in this country, as a UN delegation discovered this month.

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2015/12/five_reasons_why_gender_inequa.html

For 2015:

The findings? Although we have indeed experienced progress toward gender equity, it’s likely that we won’t see equal pay for American women within our lifetime.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ariel...en-inequality-takes-many-forms_b_7064348.html

Equality in pay has improved in the US since 1979 when women earned about 62 percent as much as men. In 2010, American women on average earned 81 percent of what their male counterparts earned.

Women’s participation in the U.S. labor force climbed during the 1970s and 1980s, reaching 60 percent in 2000. However, in 2010 this figure has declined to 46.7 percent and is not expected to increase by 2018

http://www.ilo.org/washington/areas/gender-equality-in-the-workplace/WCMS_159496/lang--en/index.htm


I will reply rest next time ...Need to go to the lab...

@Akheilos -- Your missing the point ... I won't go out and say there is no biases towards women. I certainly as hell won't claim that there is complete equality for everyone.

What I would like for you to address is the most BASIC point I tried to make through this thread -- and I would like your opinion on as a feminist, who claims that she is for equality. How is it that when females face a problem where statistics show a certain condition of affairs e.g. more men in STEM subjects compared to women. The feminist claim that the outcome dictates that this is an inequality and needs to be remedied, however the same feminists go into stealth mode when the issue of MORE girls and LESS boys graduating in the U.S is brought up ... No inequality there ? It's almost as if outcomes are only valid and usable when they are showing that they aren't in women's favor ... as soon as the reverse is in order ... everyone is quiet .. and some (like the one in the opening post) even call it a "positive exception" ..

The biggest PROOF against feminism is the fact that when talking about things like the ones you pointed out or the glass ceiling more feminists are quick to call out "Inequality!!", yet I have yet to seen " There is no Equality in coal mining" convention by modern feminists... that convention simply doesn't happen ... because feminism especially modern feminism is for "selective equality" ...
 
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I think you have to distinguish between different kinds of feminism. Early twentieth century feminism was about creating opportunities for women: the right to vote, the right to have control over your own property, the right to be educated etc. Modern feminism pretends that there are no innate differences between men and women and that there should be equality in absolutely everything which is impossible. Putting women on the front line in war is the latest stupid idea which is going to get a lot of men killed.
That is exactly what I was trying to point out in my 1st post but I got stuck in showing the flaws of the article itself :(
I do agree feminism has taken a different direction
 
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I was just saying that while examples have been included in the first post and after that .. an example by you would've been appreciated instead of writing a sentence which is backed up by no example and is presented as a universal fact ..
An example is needed when something is rare to not when it is common knowledge
Actually the video that was included in the Opening post, which showed feminist protestors cursing people and derailing an event that simply wanted to discuss men's issues ... that video is from Canada ...
I have addressed this with the 1st few words of my reply....

@Akheilos -- Your missing the point ... I won't go out and say there is no biases towards women. I certainly as hell won't claim that there is complete equality for everyone.
You are the one who is missing the point....

When you want to put forth an argument that the feminists are not seeking equality but highlighting things that happen to women which also happen to men ....You seemed to bring it about using a men's right group which is doing the same for men and no there is no equality there....

I already stated that the modern or current group isnt doing what it was made of...yet you want to drag the discussion?!
 
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An example is needed when something is rare to not when it is common knowledge

I have addressed this with the 1st few words of my reply....


You are the one who is missing the point....

When you want to put forth an argument that the feminists are not seeking equality but highlighting things that happen to women which also happen to men ....You seemed to bring it about using a men's right group which is doing the same for men and no there is no equality there....

I already stated that the modern or current group isnt doing what it was made of...yet you want to drag the discussion?!

Your argument would hold a bit of water if feminism and MRM were actually comparable in terms of the movement. Newsflash .. they are not.

-Feminism wants to be the "theekedar" of equality, and through it's literature it claims that it's for BOTH MEN and WOMEN. Which should translate in to action that benefits BOTH MEN and WOMEN. The reality is on display, where men have the short end of the stick, it's a "positive exception" ...

-MRM was a reactionary movement whose purpose is to identify areas in which males are facing the short end of the equality stick. The relevant literature usually doesn't even cover issues regarding women, because that is not their purpose to begin with.


Can't make it any clearer then that. Anyways have a nice day @Akheilos .. and I've a question for you though, I'm a bit curious as to what you think about ... which version of feminism is the "true feminism" ..?
 
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And that is also how Feminism started :tup:

Glad to see your blind spot!

Yes thats how feminism started, yet like I've said -- the feminism of today is the "thekeedar" of equality and claims to be for both men and women.

MRM (of the past and present) does not ... It's "men only" ... when it becomes a movement that claims its for both men and women -- and yet only caters to men, you can come back and complain ... because I'd support your narrative in such a condition.

Till that happens though, the point your trying to make doesn't really hold any water. The only egalitarian movement that has some sort of an influence, is feminism, it claims to be for both men and women but only caters to women and actively tries to shutdown seminars etc. where men want to talk about men's issues. Heck when WOMEN try to speak up against this double standard, even they end up facing reactions of the worst kind. Case & point ...Erin Pizzey (the woman who should be a hero among feminists as she was the one who opened among the first DV shelters in the UK .. but lets just see what she says about the movement)

Those are the facts whether you like em or not. and lastly I'd appreciate the answer to the question I asked regarding which version of feminism do you support or think of as the "true feminism" ..
 
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