FATA Situation

[IceCold]

Armed tribesmen assemble to hunt down killers of eight peace committee elders ​

WANA, Pakistan, Jan 9 (AFP) - Thousands of armed tribesmen met at Wana in Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal area bordering Afghanistan Wednesday vowing to organise a lashkar (legion) to hunt down Al-Qaeda-linked militants blamed for killing eight of their elder kinsmen. The tribal jirga (council) came three days after militants stormed two offices and killed eight tribal elders of a government-sponsored peace committee. “One man from each house should come to Wana with a gun at 10:00 am (0500 GMT) on Thursday to plan our defence and act against those who are responsible for disorder,” tribal chief Malik Ghaffar told the gathering. Wazir tribe chief Maulvi Nazir, who earned fame after he drove out hundreds of Uzbeks from the region last year in bloody clashes, is expected to address the lashkar on Thursday. He did not turn up at Wednesday's meeting but had earlier blamed Baitullah Mehsud, a top Al-Qaeda commander and leader of the rival Mehsud tribe, for the killing of the peace committee members. Residents have reported that announcements have been made on public address system asking Mehsud tribesmen to “leave Wana to avoid losses.” Baitullah is accused by the government of masterminding a spate of suicide attacks in the country, including the December 27 assassination of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto in a gun and suicide bomb attack in Rawalpindi. Local sources told AFP his tribe was preparing a jirga to negotiate with the Wazir tribe to avoid confrontation. (Posted @ 15:55 PST)
- DAWN - Latest Stories; January 09, 2008

PA should assist them with their superior fire power. Or perhaps PAF should and let the remaining be cleared out by the Lashkar it self.

 

[roadrunner]

PA should not do anything. Just sit and watch.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Salim:

I believe there are two main Tribes in SW - The Mehsud and the Ahmedzai Wazirs, approximately equal in number (also see the thread on the GoP bifurcating SW). I believe within the Wazirs at least there are other sub tribes (Zalikhel tribe making up half of the Ahmedzai Wazirs.).

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...iristan.html?highlight=bifurcating+waziristan

RR, Jana
Would that be correct? And do you have a breakup of the other tribes that make up the Mehsud and Ahmedzai Wazirs?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

PA should not do anything. Just sit and watch.

This effort will carry more legitimacy if the Tribes see the threat and act on it themselves, but what if help is requested, like the last time Mullah Nazir went after the Uzbeks supported by Mehsud? I doubt that operation would have been over as quickly as it was without PA help (artillery primarily, and low key). Are you suggesting that if this gets to that point the PA should not help this time?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Agnostic.

Thanks.

I was just seeing a TV channel where President Musharraf has taken a very strong stand over the US cross border actions and has even dared the US so to say. It was expected since he was under tremendous pressure from the West.

Given this new stance, the reactions in the Pashtun areas take a new meaning and one wonders what their reactions will be and will the whole issue pan out.

 

[IceCold]

PA should not do anything. Just sit and watch.

Why shouldnt PA not do anything? There are fighting for a common cause, and i'm only saying the PA should assist them with superior fire power at their disposal while the rest should be taken care of by the tribals themselves. We shouldnt forget that these militants are equipped with more modern weapons as compared to the tribals and so PA should assist them. There wouldnt be any use if the tribal lashkar suffers heavy casualties.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan paramilitary troops defeat militant attack in tribal region​

WANA, Pakistan, Jan 11 (AFP) Troops defeated an attack by hundreds of militants in a tribal region this week, inflicting heavy casualties, officials said Friday. The attack came hours after thousands of armed tribesmen met at Wana in South Waziristan Wednesday, vowing to organise a lashkar (legion) to hunt down Al-Qaeda-linked militants blamed for killing eight of their kinsmen. “Around 250-300 miscreants concentrated and attempted to attack Ladha Fort and Ladha Check Post on the night of January 9 to 10,” chief military spokesman Major General Waheed Arshad told AFP. He said the security forces retaliated with artillery and small-arms fire. “The miscreants were forced to retreat and reportedly suffered heavy casualties,” Arshad added without giving specific details. The tribal jirga or council at Wana came after militants killed eight tribal elders who were part of a government-sponsored peace committee. (Posted @ 13:10 PST)

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Good to see the FC having some success as well.

 

[roadrunner]

This effort will carry more legitimacy if the Tribes see the threat and act on it themselves, but what if help is requested, like the last time Mullah Nazir went after the Uzbeks supported by Mehsud? I doubt that operation would have been over as quickly as it was without PA help (artillery primarily, and low key). Are you suggesting that if this gets to that point the PA should not help this time?

Well that's what I meant. Assist them only if asked. Else just sit and watch, but not take the lead.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

Well that's what I meant. Assist them only if asked. Else just sit and watch, but not take the lead.

AM and RR just for you ....

And Blain ... Its not that i am sunni and i am pissed out at Shias ... I have no hatered for other sects but what you see here is shameful!

This is no way you kill people in a fight ... This is pure hatered and brutality!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Those are horrific pictures P2BP - but what do you expect in a fight where BOTH sides are using HMG's, rockets, mortars, RPG's etc.? Are you deliberately ignoring that, or are you just not considering the damage to the human body those weapons could cause?

What do you think the conditions of the bodies of Taliban militants are when they are hit by PA artillery shells or Cobra rockets? Please think a little about the weaponry that exists in the Tribal areas (with both Shia and Sunni) before getting emotional over images such as these.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

AM, the person who is living there and brought the videos is not Sunni, but of Shia sect but its ironical that since these people have been living their for decades they have very close bonds and this area has not witnessed this type of sectarian violence before. Consider people burning the bodies after they are shot dead with 30 bullets. People putting the Bodies in Wheat Grinders ........... This is only done when their is pure hatered and brutality in mind ........ No muslim, can do such an act to other muslim.

AM, what weapons they use in tribal areas are well known to me... But its not that they have been hit with mortars or RPGs... They have been brutally murdered.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM, the person who is living there and brought the videos is not Sunni, but of Shia sect but its ironical that since these people have been living their for decades they have very close bonds and this area has not witnessed this type of sectarian violence before. Consider people burning the bodies after they are shot dead with 30 bullets. People putting the Bodies in Wheat Grinders ........... This is only done when their is pure hatered and brutality in mind ........ No muslim, can do such an act to other muslim.

AM, what weapons they use in tribal areas are well known to me... But its not that they have been hit with mortars or RPGs... They have been brutally murdered.

This is done when there is mob violence, and once conflict erupts people lose the ability to reason. How many people may have seen a body burnt after being hit witha mortar or a rocket and thought that the other side burnt that person? And then they do the same in revenge, and the cycle continues.

What was the rationale behind someone dousing the little Iraqi child with gasoline and setting him on fire? That the culprits who did this should be punished (on both sides) there is no doubt, but you have not argued for that. You have argued against all Shia in the area, against engineering demographic changes against the Shia to "teach them a lesson". With those views you are no better than the monsters who committed the heinous acts you are outraged at. You are contributing nothing to a process that would bring about reconciliation and peace between the two communities, only sowing more seeds of hatred, both towards the Sunni and our nation and its military.

The worst thing about what you have advocated is that you have lumped every Shia, innocent men, women and children, into your group, that must pay for these crimes by a few so that your "justice" is served. That kind of attitude is what started the Iraq mess, and is what will destroy Pakistan.

If you can establish the guilt of the specific individuals that committed these acts, and punish them through whatever justice system exists in the area, I support you. If you want to advocate punishing an entire community for the actions of a few, beyond what the local justice system recommends, then you are part of the problem.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

AM, this is what i meant with punishment that only who are involved with these acts should pay with their lives ........... Its not that any Shia who is sitting besides me right now and watching the same video of violence should be killed in their instead ...

Try to understand that its not hatered for the whole sect but only for the people who do such act of brutalities. Donot judge my comments with sheer passion and emotion.

Its not that this can provoke sectarian violence in whole country because since long Sunni and shia sects are at peace and it is the way it should be all around the world.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM, this is what i meant with punishment that only who are involved with these acts should pay with their lives ........... Its not that any Shia who is sitting besides me right now and watching the same video of violence should be killed in their instead ...

Try to understand that its not hatered for the whole sect but only for the people who do such act of brutalities. Donot judge my comments with sheer passion and emotion.

Its not that this can provoke sectarian violence in whole country because since long Sunni and shia sects are at peace and it is the way it should be all around the world.

If I misunderstood your comments I apologize. But when you stated that the "Shia will pay" and that the demographics will be changed, it doesn't sound like you are arguing against specific individuals. Demographic changes, such as what you described, would impact the entire community, and until RR pointed out that the families fleeing were Sunni, you seemed quite happy with the thought that Shia families were refugees, since that would create a "demographic balance". I am going by what you posted. If you feel that you misstated something, you can clarify that now.

Read Jana's post as well, where her source from Parachinar describes the events. It seems that someone instigated both sides, and then hot heads from both sides got involved and this happened.

There is secterian violence to some extend as RR said but what exactly is the sitution we need to understand the culture there.

Parachinar is no doubt dominated by Shias and Sunnis are in minority there.

The two community mostly live in harmony the problem starts when some outside force and hidden hands ignite an incident that is followed by violence indeed getting a secterian color no doubt.

NOw what exactly is puting fuel to fire is not Only the Secterian factor

Its rather an Intra-Tribal clash
There are mainly two Tirbes
1. Turi (Toori) Tribe
they are Sunnis

2. Bangash Tribe
they are Shias.

Now its more of a clash between tribes both are pashto speaking the Shias are with Pashto accent that of Afghanistan or to resemble with that of Pashto spoken in Balochistan.
While Tooris though too have some flavour of the same accent but mainly its more close to that spoken in most of the tribal agencies of NWFP but slightly different.

Now if you had closley followed such intra-tribal clashes are always harsh even if the tribes are from same sect. that is the intensity of tribal rivalries.

Now the clash started much before Eid

It was Thursday evening when a person from Sunni Side was found dead (killed by some unknown person)

The very next day i.e Friday a Grenad was exploded in Parachinar Bazaar that led to killing of more Sunnis and guess what ??

After that blast some unknown people (they were even reproted by the shias as non-residents) stopped public transport vans and after drawing out the passangers killed them.

Now all this is very planned if you try to understand that.
Both the sides were blaming each other for getting support from their supporters.
The shias claimed the rival tribe is being supported by elements from other agencies

while the Sunnis claimed that the rival tribe is getting support from elements from Afghanistan.

Another intresting thing which came to surface was the FC officer, deployed in Parachinar ( he is a Shia) and most of the killing of Sunnis were due to his support to his shia tribe as per sunnis.

The sunni representatives while addressing press conference at Peshawar Press Club several times Demanded deployment of regular army to halt the clashes.
After that when regualr army took control of the area, killings witnessed a sharp decrease.

Now the sunni side just yeasterday in a press conference has demanded perminent deployment of Regular Army in the area.

And i think its time we should delpoy the Regular army there on perminent basis not for this clash but for countering and kulling all those Anti-Pakistan elements and our enemy from exploiting this situation anymore.

 

[Proud to be Pakistani]

I agree with Jana Je and you also AM.......

Their should be no difference of opinion on such issues as we are Muslims and should respect sects and should not let hate manupilate us... If you think that my words were wrong i will edit them and i apologize for that.

May Allah guide us and make our hearts merciful for all, as Allah likes forgiveness.

But in a society, people doing such acts should be punished so that the law is abided by the others.