Falcon V Fulcrum Turkey Shoot

[Windjammer]

Yaar - You can take a horse to water but you cant force it to drink it. In the same way nowadays we have all the ability to google and find out for ourselves. If there is any doubt in the likes of people such as INDTAM i am sure if he tries he will see what you are trying to justify.

Personally I don't see a big deal in MKI being painted and captured in a HUD shot, in fact i would have preferred seeing it going down in flames, but then we could have done same with their Chopper yesterday.

 

[INDTAM]

Su-30MKI compared with the F-16C and F-18E/F

this is all i got apart from blogs which is not that valid here i suppose.

searched.... nothing on su 30 and roe!!!!!

 

[regular]

I don't know but is it possible to lock down MKI flanker with F-16 without BVR??

 

[INDTAM]

The point is not the horse having to drink the water..
The horse does not have to drink the water.. the horse can walk away.. it can say its not thirsty, the water is too cold or warm, it tastes bad..

But when horses go out to the water.. and tell you that since you haven't had the water you cannot be sure of its being the water and you too should not drink it.. and that not everybody will taste the water the same.. and therefore nobody can be trusted on their perception of water .. even those who drink it everyday... and only when it comes out as urine and you analyze the chemical composition of urine can you tell if water made it or not..
So.. I as a horse will not consider this water, and encourage others not to drink it.. and you arent even qualified to talk about the water.. even though you cant be sure that whether I am a horse as I claim to be or a goat.. or if you are a man as you claim to be or a unicorn..

AIMED AT NO-ONE SPECIFIC.. but a particular class of users from multiple countries here.

There is doubting sources..
There is critiquing sources..

You may critique a certain down under self proclaimed think tank founder because clearly his qualifications dont match his perceived area of interest, his reputation too is dubious as his peer's find him a joke. And his views are motivated personally.
That is three strikes.. and you are out.

But Id be a complete nincompoop to think I am smarter in my opinions of doubting a career combat pilot who has flown both aircraft in tours.

I trust those people as a source for my opinions.
not one.. but many.. and form my opinions based on that.

wow you got loads of time!!
I Give up not because you proved your point but this discussion is taking a different approach and who knows you end up banning me

To the other post about the German's experience as I said its subjective because an Indian may not have that opinion because of the vast presence of Russian Birds in IAF inventory.
To him MIG29 will be a piece of cake compared to MIG21!!!!!!!

Please reply with smaller posts!!!

 

[fd24]

wow you got loads of time!!
I Give up not because you proved your point but this discussion is taking a different approach and who knows you end up banning me

To the other post about the German's experience as I said its subjective because an Indian may not have that opinion because of the vast presence of Russian Birds in IAF inventory.
To him MIG29 will be a piece of cake compared to MIG21!!!!!!!

Please reply with smaller posts!!!

Their you go - my point proven. Well done INDTAM.

 

[Drawn_Sword_of_God]

There is always a reason

yes because IAF mig29s were armed with BVR and our f16s werent armed with BVR at that time.
BVR = BEYOND VISUAL RANGE missiles

 

[INDTAM]

Taking the above..
My talks with F-16 flyers.. and a certain pilot who did a evaluation study of the mig-29 for the PAF back in the 90's.
I decided to form my opinion.. I am not shoving it down your throat.. but please do not tell me I am not able to form an opinion.

I agree with the F16 case because of your claim My talks with F-16 flyers.

but an evaluation and hardcore flying hours are different to form a total opinion of the feel of the fighter.

Your right to form an opinion but all i am asking is whether you are right with your opinion because we take opinions from people like you to be true and solid.

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------

Their you go - my point proven. Well done INDTAM.

which point so that i can explain?

 

[Chogy]

First of all, "locking someone up" is about as hard as clicking an icon with a mouse pointer... There's nothing interesting or praiseworthy about it.

The MiG-29 has some very good aerodynamic features, but user-friendliness and above all avionics and sensor/weapon integration is a generation behind. High AOA maneuvering doesn't score kills nearly as well as a fast detect-shoot-splash at 10 nm using advanced systems.

Fuel is a HUGE issue and almost always overlooked in these "versus" threads. The MiG-29 is emergency fuel on takeoff. Add enough fuel to it to match even a clean F-16 in terms of endurance, and you lose much of its maneuverability. Fuel weighs a lot, often up to 1/3 or more of the entire combat weight.

Many kills are made because one or more players approaches "bingo fuel" and has to extract himself from a hot area.

 

[danger007]

Ah...John Doe....I was wondering where have you got to.....we were missing the amusement.
First, as the story goes, a certain shop specialises in selling brains, a potential buyer walks in to look at the goods on offer, he notices an American brain in a jar for $2.00, next is a Japanese for $5.00 and a Chinese for $8.00 and so on, at the end of the line is an Indian brain for $100.00...the shopper is bemused at the price discrepancy since the likes of American, Japanese and Chinese are way ahead in technology, yet their brains are all under $10.00, and Indians.....however his inquiry is promptly answered by the assistant who discloses that the Indian brain belongs to a certain John Doe, while all other brains have been used that's why they are so cheap but the Indian brain has never been used and it's still in original packing , hence the price difference, however the assistant also warns albeit brand new but there is no guarantee it will ever activate. !!!
Now to the highlighted part, according to you, all F-16s were grounded due to lack of spares !!??.... yet some frivolous Indian warlords awarded a MiG-29 pilot for painting an F-16 !!! now did he supposedly achieve this while the F-16 was sitting in the hangaror did that F-16 belonged to Somalian Air Force..... BUSTED.
Let me try and enlighten you, the PAF was very much deployed on FOB including the F-16s, I have a video to that effect (VHS).
Characters like you just want to believe what your heart tells you, apart from the Falcons giving a surprise to a flight of Fulcrums, I bet your self centred media never ever disclosed the incident involving your then energy minister's Helicopter or how an inauguration flight involving an Indian transport aircraft met with fire from both sides of the border.....you know if you are desperate to seek attention, there are better ways than wasting band width and peoples time and making a spectacle of your self.
Damn, I don't need to answer to any of your cheap banter, however since this is an open forum, I challenge you on the MKI incident to prove me otherwise. Here is the works, Santro is a highly credible and respected MOD, and by your own admission, your favourite, whatever method suits you, you can inquire from him regarding the MKI getting locked on by an F-16, which incidentaly happened over Murid k, near Lahore.

Windjammer you are not jamming wind but mind. when did MKI locked by F-16.i think Indian ministry of defence sended our MKI for your target practice right. So what your Radars doing When MKI is flying over Lahore sky.

 

[fd24]

First of all, "locking someone up" is about as hard as clicking an icon with a mouse pointer... There's nothing interesting or praiseworthy about it.

The MiG-29 has some very good aerodynamic features, but user-friendliness and above all avionics and sensor/weapon integration is a generation behind. High AOA maneuvering doesn't score kills nearly as well as a fast detect-shoot-splash at 10 nm using advanced systems.

Fuel is a HUGE issue and almost always overlooked in these "versus" threads. The MiG-29 is emergency fuel on takeoff. Add enough fuel to it to match even a clean F-16 in terms of endurance, and you lose much of its maneuverability. Fuel weighs a lot, often up to 1/3 or more of the entire combat weight.

Many kills are made because one or more players approaches "bingo fuel" and has to extract himself from a hot area.

Thanks Chogy. Which one would you rather fly?

 

[danger007]

Personally I don't see a big deal in MKI being painted and captured in a HUD shot, in fact i would have preferred seeing it going down in flames, but then we could have done same with their Chopper yesterday.

have you seen MKI anytime. i wish you won't get that chance bro. please give some credit to MKI.

 

[nForce]

Thanks Chogy. Which one would you rather fly?

asking an American ex-pilot which one he would rather fly?

 

[fd24]

asking an American ex-pilot which one he would rather fly?

why not? I would respect his opinion wouldnt you?

 

[SQ8]

wow you got loads of time!!
I Give up not because you proved your point but this discussion is taking a different approach and who knows you end up banning me

To the other post about the German's experience as I said its subjective because an Indian may not have that opinion because of the vast presence of Russian Birds in IAF inventory.
To him MIG29 will be a piece of cake compared to MIG21!!!!!!!

Please reply with smaller posts!!!

Many Luftwaffe mig-29 pilots were ex East German AF.. with time on the Mig-23 and Mig-21. They too found the Mig-29 a piece of cake.. but had similar opinions about the ease of flying and fighting in a western jet.

Ill try to write as much as the average poster can absorb and has absorbed in the past, if you cannot read it and understand it in one go, I suggest you break it down into a paragraph at a time and do it. Helps when reading a large article.

And I do take my time in posts such as these as it is better to think and formulate before posting rather than just finding loose bullets and firing away.

 

[danger007]

If an ordinary chopper flown accidentally In *** it became a huge news, But when an Attacking machine SU-30mki flown in Lahore air space why F-16 didn't forced it to ground. How PAF allowed combat jet into an MAJOR city air space.