Featured Ex Air Chief Sohail Aman interview with Qalam Camera

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

(AN EXTREMELY LOW IQ OFFICER)

First of all most of us consider you a very intelligent and highly distinguished officer. Your posts are always a delight to read and are full of facts. The nation salutes the great hard work and duties conducted by our armed forces as you mentioned and more. The country will always be grateful for their sacrifices and the tasks they are ASKED to perform.

 

[Yasser76]

I think you are spot on with regards to point 2. I also believe that PAF is now seemingly overconfident in their EW capacity. While it is true that because of the limited variations of platforms PAF is using, it enables them to act as a very highly network centralised AF. It is also a weakness. If any one of your key assets is lost you are now no longer a highly networked AF but a sitting duck.

Countering Rafael should be a two pronged strategy, PAF needs to use its seemingly current upperhand in EW and develop it further. They should also actively look to improve on current shortcomings in radar detection and missile ranges vs Rafel/Meteor combination.

This will ensure that in a scenario where you might lose your network centralisation (AWACS and other EW platforms) is rendered useless your fighters alone can fight to an extent.

IAF's shortcomings in network centralisation and cross communication between platforms is nothing new, however their fighting philosophy mirrors that as well. Which is the only reason they have so many different platforms etc. This is not ideal but so far they are managing and haven't been called out.

Unlike IAF, PAF cannot afford to be caught with its pants down, if that were to happen the ramifications would be dire - all bets are off. For this reason alone I am not comfortable with this current emphasis on tactics, tactics alone will not guarantee air supremacy.

I do not think they are "managing" that well with different platforms. You will note that servicability rate in IAF is shockingly low, especially within SU-30 fleet. Also very hard to get a set up like CCS where everyone basically learns and fights and develops tactics on 3 platforms. They do not even have dedicated squadrons for their fighter weapons schools, as when you only have 3-4 squadrons of each type you cannot afford to send 1 sqd to a tactics school. Same for weapons now, mix of UK, US, French, Russian, Israeli and Indian missiles and bombs. Hard to get economies of scale and hence price per weapon and platform is high. Much of this will not make the news as firstly it is not very glamerous, secondly IAF will never want to admit it

 

[Invicta]

I do not think they are "managing" that well with different platforms. You will note that servicability rate in IAF is shockingly low, especially within SU-30 fleet. Also very hard to get a set up like CCS where everyone basically learns and fights and develops tactics on 3 platforms. They do not even have dedicated squadrons for their fighter weapons schools, as when you only have 3-4 squadrons of each type you cannot afford to send 1 sqd to a tactics school. Same for weapons now, mix of UK, US, French, Russian, Israeli and Indian missiles and bombs. Hard to get economies of scale and hence price per weapon and platform is high. Much of this will not make the news as firstly it is not very glamerous, secondly IAF will never want to admit it

Well to clarify by my reference to "managing" i should have clarified the perception they are trying to portray. You are right their setup is not glamorous, but they market it as glamorous, ironically the majority falls for it.
In any decent organisation they would have admitted it. In light of recent events and their seniors mouthing off at every media opportunity they look anything but decent.

 

[Goenitz]

@RAMPAGE @PanzerKiel

but yes we need familiarisation with new tools and best way is to do exercise with developed armed forces. This will quickly/urgently make armed forces realise than merely studying others.

I am just happy on ACM thoughts and determination. That type of spine we needed for Jf-17. Totally trusting yourself. Bearing pressure and then finding solutions bcz you have already decided.

 

[ps3linux]

You made good points and so did @Dil Pakistan however we must not forget why we suffered in the past and it’s not due to education by itself. While we were a new nation and had to rebuild ourselves ground up, but we also brought the Yes Sir culture of the British along with us. In the US Military while their is a strict protocol to follow orders often times younger officers are put to the challenge to question their officers and both would then learn the short comings of each other’s plans. We’ve in the education system and public domain are hampered from questioning superiors and this can demoralize the officer corps as well; hopefully this is changing and @PanzerKiel can fill us on this.

I do not recall the name of the officer but he also went as far as having his soldiers question his tactics and how they would counter him.

An officer should encompass all opinions.

@RAMPAGE @SQ8 @PanzerKiel @jaibi

Valid points but every decision has its pros and cons, US army I know I have attended few courses along some of the US forces people physically and training wise they are tough. No doubt about it.

I hope you know pak forces well enough, in the states and even Pak forces it is a well established fact that forces are not run by the officers but the JCOs. Weaker the officer stronger the JCO or any other combination, senior JCO is always involved in company level decisions, good officers listen to their JCO. The reason Yes sir culture is necessary is not due to British DNA, but the necessity that if the ranks develop the habit of questioning their officer this could lead to serious problem in engagements. Any input if required from JCO is most of the time at the planning stage after that its execution. Those who know Pak forces culture they know all too well that all field officer are very independent when it comes to tactical decision necessitated by circumstances when compared to our eastern people.

Now I started with comparison with US forces no doubt their physical training and weapons training, equipment is much better than us but indoctrination of Pak forces is way ahead of many many many forces. There are multiple reasons one being religion and its beliefs. may be having flag officers in the immediate family gives me a slightly better view point of assessing the improvements needed.

And that is elevation to flag rank, forces know each and every thing about their officers so how come people like Zia, beg, musharraf and kiani and many other made it to flag rank that is something which requires serious rework. US forces utilize the services of subject matter experts extensively from the civilian side and they are given utmost respect, however here the officers consider themselves all knowing and thus fail to learn from civilian subject matter experts and are never trained to extend respect to anyone other than a senior or uniformed person, there is another but this is not the forum so in my opinion these things need rework along some fresh perspectives. Otherwise we have a pretty robust and talented pool in our forces both at officers and JCOs level.

If people continue to discuss IQ matter then I'll give a practical example of how much forces in Pakistan value their talented officer they may not rise to flag rank but they are highly valued and as I say they are the beast, the real decision makers.

 

[SQ8]

Higher IQ individuals are always in short quantity....

No one would like higher IQ individuals to get blown on roads.... Trying to capture a random peak against an entrenched enemy which facing a hail of bullets or missiles.....
... Manning CPs at busy roads in cities where anyone can bump into them....
... Cleaning sewerage etc like it is being done in Karachi....
... Mounting hostage rescue operations which can mean certain death for the first officer who enters that deadly room...... If I remember correctly, Capt Salman Farooq, SSG, Lal Masjid op... His body had more than 30 bullet entry points.....

.... Ground forces is an entirely different league altogether. Here, an officer may not have to handle multi million dollar equipment for which a very high IQ and knowledge is required.....
Here what matters is self example, leading from the front, sharing all hardships with your troops, sleeping under open sky, motivating your troops and then joining them in the march towards death....

Then, due to obvious reasons, ground forces also suffer large casualties, officers included, then other forces. It's nothing special, it's just their job and duty....

Whereas in Air force.... The equipment, aircraft, the demands on a fighter pilot to make quick calculations, OODA loop, survival in the air, all of this requires a person of a much higher IQ.... That's why induction in PAF is much more difficult than army....

Simple question.... Would you like your higher quality stuff to be risked everyday..... Or maybe a 27FebEvent once a year......?

As far as your comments are concerned, regarding the embarrassing IQ of an average army officer.... Well... These average IQ army officers and their achievements.....must be no less than miracles, isn't it.......

I mean average IQ officers mounted innumerable hostage rescue Ops...

average IQ officers also fought against highly trained terrorists for decades, and brought peace to our country....

average IQ officers are also called in aid to civil governments... From elections to floods and city cleaning....

average IQ officers also form part of organizations like ISI etc who are wreaking havoc in enemy ranks in multi ways...

average IQ officers saved innumerable lives by their daring actions....

... In a nutshell..... Whether it a natural disaster, enemy ground forces ingressing along thousands of kilometers of our borders, internal security,..... These average IQ officers are always found at the forefront.

I wonder what makes them do all this.

From
(AN EXTREMELY LOW IQ OFFICER)

Before we derail the thread too much, I think the biggest misconception that has been and will remain for a time is the “chasm” between civil and military which is really more narrative based than anything else.

An example that I give is to take two identical male twins from the same genetic background until they are 14- then send one to study in a grammar school and one to live in a boarding school: both will have different outcomes with their respective advantages/disadvantages because of their environment. But both also came from the same place and will have the same initial characteristics.

The same applies here, those High IQ officers are the same folks that would be sitting at Foriegn office, Telenor PK or Engro .. or heading abroad.

The mid IQs also get into these places and make it up the ladders using relationships or hard work and so on.

The crop is still the same for the most part , maybe why it is skewed for “better” exposure and education is the greater input of rural population in the intake of the military versus urban due to both high support and availability of opportunities - this is AS true for Pakistan as it is for the United States.

 

[Nomad40]

1. Rafale is not a game-changer in India - Pakistan scenario
2. Pakistani Pilots Capability is way ahead than Indians and if they want to match current fighter pilot skills they need at least 10 years.
3. Pakistan will keep its first shoot capability in the future as well.
4. S400 is definitely a capability, but it is something like not that it will dominate Pakistani skies
5. PAF is studying Rafale and S400 for many years.
6. Pakistan has worked a lot on indigenization
7. Azm Project design is almost finalized in 3 years. Azm will be in light in a few years and some countries want to JV or collaborate
8. PAF wants to use homemade electronic warfare
9. EW played an important role on 27th feb incident

By far the most mannered and intellectually gathered person I have come across.

 

[alibaz]

Nice interview, very calculated and measured response by Ex ACM. Full marks for anchor for being well prepared and aware about what she is asking.

 

[syedmunib]

1. Rafale is not a game-changer in India - Pakistan scenario
2. Pakistani Pilots Capability is way ahead than Indians and if they want to match current fighter pilot skills they need at least 10 years.
3. Pakistan will keep its first shoot capability in the future as well.
4. S400 is definitely a capability, but it is something like not that it will dominate Pakistani skies
5. PAF is studying Rafale and S400 for many years.
6. Pakistan has worked a lot on indigenization
7. Azm Project design is almost finalized in 3 years. Azm will be in light in a few years and some countries want to JV or collaborate
8. PAF wants to use homemade electronic warfare
9. EW played an important role on 27th feb incident

Indeginous EW systems played a key role on 27th Feb. Makes my day. Always wondered how an old platform like Falcon 20 mess with Israeli EW system on. oard the Migs, Su 30 and Mirage 2000. Looks like an indeginous system at play here.

 

[nomi007]

Ex ACM excellently exposed the Endian's hype.
The only thing which is missing is future procurement for PAF & F-16 block V up-gradation.

 

[Sidacca]

Anyone have any idea which indeginous EW he is talking about and how it did perform..? Never heard about this before

 

[CodeforFood]

During my dad's tenure in PAF I interacted with different officers on different bases some of the memorable names are:

1. Validslav Turowicz (never met him, met his daughters, wife and I was always impressed)
2. The "M.M.Alam"
3. Asghar Khan
4. Nur Khan
5. Mushaf Ali Mir (in his honor our elder son too is nicknamed by his grandad as Mashoo)
6. Sohail Aman
7. My class fellow hopefully going to make flag rank soon

PAF of today is due to 1-4 gentlemen their contributions are just too much, Sohail sb worked with my dad perhaps ADC or something he is one sharp person used to be an excellent sportsman, upright and extremely perceptive. Normally this is what you expect from PAF flag rank GDP.

One of the best thing Pakistan armed forces have developed as a culture is that they are really tight lipped about their capabilities. Some of the previous lessons have driven so deep that it has become a rule, a belief that there will never be a 71, we will never be caught with our pants down, civilian rulers no matter how good will never be allowed to cause another Indus water or Kargil, Shareef Family will never again be allowed to oust any COAS even if it means to have Musharraf as COAS.

Not even Americans know what we have been upto and which red line we crossed when, even if it means home grown ECM/EW. His interview hints in the same direction. As for Rafael and S400 as they say we'll cross that bridge...... every platform has its strength and its weaknesses, strengths could be turned into weaknesses and weaknesses can be exploited all that is required is commitment, resolve and perseverance.

Now for the IQ thing we the class fellows/batch mates have discussed this matter for over a decade, one of us was at a key position in ISSB and we discussed why average intelligence of Officers is dropping and he was pretty opinionated about his statement "officers are a product of our educational system if you see a deterioration in the intelligence this means your education system is deteriorating"

The main culprit behind deterioration of officer intelligence was Zia, whose minion started a cult where people with certain religious traits were promoted and then the dominos effect, thank goodness that era of horror is over.

For the difference in IQ here is a practical example many of us (the class fellows) came from the same school, and many from the same college. Our college section after FSc result was one of the best ever in terms if positions in the board. It was a fiercely competitive section with some of the best teachers of twin cities as lecturers. The difference between various positions in exams was no more than 2-3. Most of us applied for commission in various forces only 1 of us made it to PAF GDP hopefully will make flag rank this year, 4 of us went to PN (including me) to date 2 have made it to flag rank, and I think 10 odd went to PA three have made to flag rank rest have retired. If memory serves me right Army batch was 4 times that of NAVY, Airforce two times. Preliminary entrance test in PN was a b**ch, those who made it to PA mentioned upon sharing that theirs was the easiest of the three and PAF was the toughest.

But one should do an analysis how many appear in ISSB every year, how many qualify and out of each batch how many make it to the flag rank.

The physical requirements for a GDP brings it down to fractions of population size, then comes intelligence so you have may be less than actually 100 per batch. PN being smaller member yet have the same challenges less physical (may be lower than PA debatable) yet higher on the IQ chart because X officer even the engineering corps are commanding/leading/managing multi million dollars weapons platform.

However, the type of course forces are introducing and putting the young officer through them has started to raise the bar, and those who are unable to cope with the war of today well you see them retiring even at captain level. Not all of them are due to medical reason.



My dear sir I have yet to meet an officer with this type of traits, even if he is a retired captain, and not even an honorary captain.

BTW what these low IQed officers did to the plans aimed at disintegration of Pakistan and, the new great games are now being analyzed at micro level by many think tank across the globe. Strange many people in the west and arab states have started calling us "Markhor"

Bhayon,
stop too many compliments that you later get disappointed. We are dealing with humans and human factors. Our enemies are also humans and have the potential to come good. Lets keep our heads down and don't take our enemies lightly.

 

[CodeforFood]

First of all most of us consider you a very intelligent and highly distinguished officer. Your posts are always a delight to read and are full of facts. The nation salutes the great hard work and duties conducted by our armed forces as you mentioned and more. The country will always be grateful for their sacrifices and the tasks they are ASKED to perform.

The good things about forces is that in most times it is the entire force working in unison not an individual. You take 10 people from a group, each will have different level of intellects and strength/weaknesses. I don't believe in one force being more intelligent than the other. As long as they are performing in their arena that's Good enough for me!. I am proud of each and every one of the individual in our forces who stand in front of an advancing enemy to defend its country. He/she is definitely a bigger person than I could ever dream to be.

 

[Super Falcon]

Good but paf should focus on EW suit and radar and avionics in indigenous will sharpeen teetch of our future technologies

 

[Trango Towers]

I think you are spot on with regards to point 2. I also believe that PAF is now seemingly overconfident in their EW capacity. While it is true that because of the limited variations of platforms PAF is using, it enables them to act as a very highly network centralised AF. It is also a weakness. If any one of your key assets is lost you are now no longer a highly networked AF but a sitting duck.

Countering Rafael should be a two pronged strategy, PAF needs to use its seemingly current upperhand in EW and develop it further. They should also actively look to improve on current shortcomings in radar detection and missile ranges vs Rafel/Meteor combination.

This will ensure that in a scenario where you might lose your network centralisation (AWACS and other EW platforms) is rendered useless your fighters alone can fight to an extent.

IAF's shortcomings in network centralisation and cross communication between platforms is nothing new, however their fighting philosophy mirrors that as well. Which is the only reason they have so many different platforms etc. This is not ideal but so far they are managing and haven't been called out.

Unlike IAF, PAF cannot afford to be caught with its pants down, if that were to happen the ramifications would be dire - all bets are off. For this reason alone I am not comfortable with this current emphasis on tactics, tactics alone will not guarantee air supremacy.

It's amazing...guys who put their life on the line. Stay awake at night so we sleep. Choose the best weapons at their disposal and design and develop strategy know nothing?????