Erieye escort options for Pakistan Air Force

[Manticore]

1]At the moment what are our escort option? f7pg plus f16? both dont have bvr nor air refeulling capabilities.Can Erieye carry missiles themselves?

2]We should clearly define one western 4.5++ / 5th gen. and induct them for long range bombing/airsuperiority/deterent/protection of Erieyes etc... rather than to wait for chinese 5th gen or thinking/daydreaming that j10 could be Quickly beafed upto the specs of 4.5++ etc..----- as no chinese 5th gen fighter has come out , no j10b has surfaced as yet and we have no bvr capability --Even after ordering certain fighters, it would take years to see an actual operational squadron

I am thinking of 'immediate action'' not what we will order in next five-ten years

Once indians make there mmrca order , get pakfa , 200 su30.. than perhaps other companies would like to sell their hightech jets to us.....

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Probably JF-17...

 

[PAFAce]

Probably JF-17...

Agreed. Why not the JF-17. It is an MRCA afterall.

 

[Muradk]

1]1]At the moment what are our escort option? f7pg plus f16? both dont have bvr nor air refeulling capabilities.Can Erieye carry missiles themselves?

2]We should clearly define one western 4.5++ / 5th gen. and induct them for long range bombing/airsuperiority/deterent/protection of Erieyes etc... rather than to wait for chinese 5th gen or thinking/daydreaming that j10 could be Quickly beafed upto the specs of 4.5++ etc..----- as no chinese 5th gen fighter has come out , no j10b has surfaced as yet and we have no bvr capability --Even after ordering certain fighters, it would take years to see an actual operational squadron

I am thinking of 'immediate action'' not what we will order in next five-ten years

Once indians make there mmrca order , get pakfa , 200 su30.. than perhaps other companies would like to sell their hightech jets to us.....

Who gave you the above info?

 

[zavis2003]

JF 17s are the only choice with full fuel tanks and only two air to air missiles as a standard. and PAF will solutionized the problem by doing A2A refuilling of JF17 thunders.
Thats the solution of your ans
J10s wont be coz they will be in limited in number and for fronine puposia not as back line erriye defenders.
J11s these birds may be inducted later and 4 similar designation of j10s
If currently F7s are 4 this then they will create a lot of problems

1 NO BVR or limited BVR so cant stops the intruders or even cant make them runawayy.

2 Intruders like SU MKIs will do there job better if escorties were F7s.

3NO a2a refuilling so one batch will go down 4 fuel and second will take the duty as by dis double the burden

 

[Manticore]

nobody gave me the info sir... its purely my speculation

 

[hj786]

Will you guys please stop shouting about PAF buying J-11s. PAF does not need J-11s. NOBODY with any real knowledge of how the PAF works has talked about PAF buying J-11s as far as I know. Why would PAF need J-11s when they will very soon have J-10Bs and aerial refuellers? PAF has never in it's history bought such a large twin-engined platform for use as a fighter aircraft.

As for Erieye escorts, I thought it would make most sense to use F-16s. They can datalink with the Erieye system using Link-16 and rain AMRAAMs at the IAF without even switching on their own radars. As long as there are Erieyes and F-16s in the sky with AMRAAMs on their hardpoints, IAF doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Always Neutral]

Who gave you the above info?

Dear MuradK,

What are your views for the Eyries, F16 and Mirages for the below

1. Given PAF's doctrine do these aircrafts require IFR ?

2. If yes my understanding is that the Ukranian IFRs will be unable to do the job. Is that correct ?

3. Would then the new Airbus IFR be the solution ?

Regards

 

[Manticore]

my point was that at the moment we dont have any functional squadrons of j10s[4.5 +gen] with greater fuel capacity and relative equivalance to su30--

.. so waiting and using f7pg plus f16s for radar escort without the capability of bvr and aerial refeulling is daydreaming .




its always better to be critical / worried rather than to praise yourself all the time...it brings better results from all of us -- its MY country , MY airforce -- so ive an inherent right to ask these questions.
[i would never dream of talking rubbish.. rather i try to sit with these guys whenever possible.. its always an honour]
regards

 

[blain2]

Dear MuradK,

What are your views for the Eyries, F16 and Mirages for the below

1. Given PAF's doctrine do these aircrafts require IFR ?

2. If yes my understanding is that the Ukranian IFRs will be unable to do the job. Is that correct ?

3. Would then the new Airbus IFR be the solution ?

Regards

While your query is specifically for Muradk, just for the sake of discussion, I wanted to add to the discussion.

1. Given PAF's doctrine do these aircrafts require IFR ?

We require IFR not because we have force-projection goals, rather to increase the endurance of our standing CAPs and training sorties.

2. If yes my understanding is that the Ukranian IFRs will be unable to do the job. Is that correct ?

F-16s are the exception to the Ukrainian IFR solution. Erieye can sustain a long sortie without refueling for upwards of 8-10 hours.

3. Would then the new Airbus IFR be the solution ?

It would be a good solution as a MRTT but again the cost could be great. I think we will go the path of surplus KC-10s for the F-16s. By the way, the IL-78s that PAF has acquired are Multirole Tanker, Transport platforms and not dedicated refuellers only. So we have some flexibility there.

 

[TOPGUN]

I just dont understand when we made the deal with US for the mlu and for the new block f-16's why didnt PAF think or request for some tankers for the f-16's??

 

[blain2]

I just dont understand when we made the deal with US for the mlu and for the new block f-16's why didnt PAF think or request for some tankers for the f-16's??

They did and we are awaiting clearance on KC-10s.

 

[Always Neutral]

It would be a good solution as a MRTT but again the cost could be great. I think we will go the path of surplus KC-10s for the F-16s. By the way, the IL-78s that PAF has acquired are Multirole Tanker, Transport platforms and not dedicated refuellers only. So we have some flexibility there.

Thanks for the info. Would the KC 10 be on the market for PAF given the close ties of India and US ?

I would think two Airbuses's would be an easier buy.

Regards

 

[blain2]

a question

does the eyrie have full 360 degree coverage?

or is it 240 degrees?

because the phalcon's radar is mounted in a triangular format inside the rotodome while the eyrie's is just 1 rod


also is the eyrie an AEW or AEWACS?

because compared to the eyrie, the phalcon is a monster, so i believe that the eyrie must be connected to a ground center to process all of that information.

last but not least, the phalcon has around 100 antennas other than its radar for other uses (ELINT intel or w.e.) does the eyrie also have that?

Erieye's coverage is very close to 360 degrees. There were some challenges with the rear hemisphere coverage with the original Swedish and Greek systems which were optimized on the Pakistani solution. Having stated that, folks should realize that in the scheme of things, all AEW platforms have blind spots. This goes for E-3, Phalcon, Wedgetail and Erieye. There are ways to get around these issues which could mean that we fly the platforms in certain patterns that ensure that we are not flying blind.

 

[blain2]

Thanks for the info. Would the KC 10 be on the market for PAF given the close ties of India and US ?

I would think two Airbuses's would be an easier buy.

Regards

Not sure what US-India ties have anything to do with Pakistan? Along with de-hyphenation, comes the opportunity to do business with both. I do not foresee a problem with Pakistan acquiring the KC-10.

KC-135s could be obtained via the EDA, no such luck trying this with Airbus conglomerate.