What's new

Erdogan says Saudi 'put pressure' on Pakistan to withdraw from Malaysia summit: Turkish media

Is Imran Khan required to take nation into confidence as to why he quit the KL Summit?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 94.1%
  • No

    Votes: 2 5.9%

  • Total voters
    34
Status
Not open for further replies.
Arabic influence needs to be removed.

1. I speak from first hand experience when I say Arabs of gulf countries are racist towards other arabs. If there was so much love, Saudi Arabia would've taken the >3 million arabs, not Turkey.

2. You state Arab history with such nationalistic pride, it almost makes me want to puke.

Bottom line is I don't care about history, or influence. It is no secret that Saudi Arabia pressured Pakistan, and that we will never be happy with. Now bark all you want.

It won't ever be removed. You remove it and there will be no Muslim world or Islamic civilization. Sorry to say it.

1) You keep parroting your nonsense. KSA hosts 6 million Arabs. 2 million Yemeni refugees. Almost 2 million Egyptians and over 1 million Syrians. Many Sudanese, Jordanians, Lebanese. In fact every Arab nationality is present in KSA/GCC in large numbers. From Morocco to migrants from within the GCC.

Also stop bootlicking Turkey, just because you are apparently based there, Syria is next door to Turkey and Turkey is the gateway to Europe, only therefore. There are more Syrians in tiny Lebanon and Jordan combined and last time I checked they are Arabs. Turkey is also the state that meddled the most in Syria and help fuel the flames and to this day it is in a tiny part of Syria illegally.

2) No nationalistic pride but patriotic pride and what I write are historical facts and I know that this hurts anti-Arabs like you. I love doing it against anti-Arabs as you guys are left without a reply as you are a good example of.

Sure, expect that there is no reason to pressure anyone about anything and obviously I don't expect you to sit in Turkey and not defend the populist Erdogan and his empty rhetoric.

BTW I have a heard time taking such trolls seriously, when there is no more diverse region in the Muslim world than the GCC, and no other region that hosts Muslims of every ethnicity, race etc. Even naturalized citizens as KSA and Oman is a good example. I wrote about this in detail in this thread already with many of your compatriots thanking my factual posts, but it seems that you have already made your ignorant/not-knowledgeable mind up and the anti-Arab in you is not easy to remove, I see. Same old.

Not true, and any Arab from the Gulf states that is racist towards other Arabs will require Arabization as he/she will not represent Arabism. Same vice-versa.

The same nonsense parroted by non-Arabs who have no clue about what they are talking about. The GCC hates fellow Arabs and non-Arabs, this is why the GCC is flooded with foreigners and intermarriages occur in the 10.000's each year if not more. The logic of some anti-Arab PDF members.:lol:
 
.
I wish more Pakistani's go to Turkey for work like they go in ME

A big LOL...

One of the reason that Turks still respect Pakistanis is because we don't go there to work en masse like GCC.

Plus, one of the reason that few Turks have distaste about us is because of our illegals there(which currently are 30K iirc)
 
.
It won't ever be removed. You remove it and there will be no Muslim world or Islamic civilization. Sorry to say it.

1) You keep parroting your nonsense. KSA hosts 6 million Arabs. 2 million Yemeni refugees. Almost 2 million Egyptians and over 1 million Syrians. Many Sudanese, Jordanians, Lebanese. In fact every Arab nationality is present in KSA/GCC in large numbers. From Morocco to migrants from within the GCC.

Also stop bootlicking Turkey, just because you are apparently based there, Syria is next door to Turkey and Turkey is the gateway to Europe, only therefore. There are more Syrians in tiny Lebanon and Jordan combined and last time I checked they are Arabs.

2) No nationalistic pride but patriotic pride and what I write are historical facts and I know that this hurts anti-Arabs like you. I love doing it against anti-Arabs as you guys are left without a reply as you are a good example of.

Sure, expect that there is no reason to pressure anyone about anything and obviously I don't expect you to sit in Turkey and not defend the populist Erdogan and his empty rhetoric.

BTW I have a heard time taking such trolls seriously, when there is no more diverse region in the Muslim world than the GCC, and no other region that hosts Muslims of every ethnicity, race etc. Even naturalized citizens as KSA and Oman is a good example. I wrote about this in detail in this thread already with many of your compatriots thanking my factual posts, but it seems that you have already made your ignorant/not-knowledgeable mind up and the anti-Arab in you is not easy to remove, I see. Same old.



The same nonsense parroted by non-Arabs who have no clue about what they are talking about. The GCC hates fellow Arabs and non-Arabs, this is why the GCC is flooded with foreigners. The logic of some anti-Arab PDF members.:lol:

You think Arabs God's choosen ones, or some bullshit, without Arabic influence, Islam would seize to exist. Unbelievable.

1.
main-qimg-a18dbbea6980118c3ef07a9994ffefe7.png

Number of Syrian refugees taken in. Source: UNHCR - 2015.

Take note that Syrian refugees are not the same as Syrian migrants.

2. I have Syrian friends, I don't hate Arabs, I hate retards like you who try to demean a perfectly good friend of a country.

I am not bootlicking Turkey just because I stay there you dumb ****. Why do you think we love Turkey so much, and not Saudi Arabia. If it weren't for Mecca and Medina, we would have zero compassion for Saudi Arabia.

Now I want you to put your few brain cells to work first. We don't love Turkey and hate Saudi Arabia because of propaganda.

I want to see your answers to these two questions.

Why do Pakistanis have a favorable view of Turkey?


Why do Pakistanis don't have a favorable view of Saudi Arabia outside the spectrum of Islam?
 
.
You think Arabs God's choosen ones, or some bullshit, without Arabic influence, Islam would seize to exist. Unbelievable.

1. View attachment 594737
Number of Syrian refugees taken in. Source: UNHCR - 2015.

Take note that Syrian refugees are not the same as Syrian migrants.

2. I have Syrian friends, I don't hate Arabs, I hate retards like you who try to demean a perfectly good friend of a country.

I am not bootlicking Turkey just because I stay there you dumb ****. Why do you think we love Turkey so much, and not Saudi Arabia. If it weren't for Mecca and Medina, we would have zero compassion for Saudi Arabia.

Now I want you to put your few brain cells to work first. We don't love Turkey and hate Saudi Arabia because of propaganda.

I want to see your answers to these two questions.

Why do Pakistanis have a favorable view of Turkey?


Why do Pakistanis don't have a favorable view of Saudi Arabia outside the spectrum of Islam?

Pakistanis can do as they wish
 
.
You think Arabs God's choosen ones, or some bullshit, without Arabic influence, Islam would seize to exist. Unbelievable.

1. View attachment 594737
Number of Syrian refugees taken in. Source: UNHCR - 2015.

Take note that Syrian refugees are not the same as Syrian migrants.

2. I have Syrian friends, I don't hate Arabs, I hate retards like you who try to demean a perfectly good friend of a country.

I am not bootlicking Turkey just because I stay there you dumb ****. Why do you think we love Turkey so much, and not Saudi Arabia. If it weren't for Mecca and Medina, we would have zero compassion for Saudi Arabia.

Now I want you to put your few brain cells to work first. We don't love Turkey and hate Saudi Arabia because of propaganda.

I want to see your answers to these two questions.

Why do Pakistanis have a favorable view of Turkey?


Why do Pakistanis don't have a favorable view of Saudi Arabia outside the spectrum of Islam?

Stop writing nonsense and calm down.

1) KSA does not recognize Syrian refugees as migrants and they are called "Arab brothers in distress". I will pick that nonsense of yours about within minutes once I find all the right references, sources and actual evidence.

2) Nonsense. According to every survey in Pakistan, Pakistanis consider KSA as their best ally time and time again and by a clear majority. If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle logic again.

As for the rest of your troll post, filled with insults, although I won't reply in a similar manner although I easily good, nothing more than empty statements that are contrary to ground realities.

Here to pick your fairytales apart:

Contributor
MSPPM candidate at Carnegie Mellon University, national finalist for the US Department of State’s Graduate Thomas R. Pickering Fellowship
Western Media’s Miscount of Saudi Arabia’s Syrian Refugees
09/23/2015 11:57 am ET Updated Dec 06, 2017
5cc15c1e240000350076f963.jpeg

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, left, and Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir, right, hold a joint news conference at Riyadh Air Base in Saudi Arabia, Thursday, May 7, 2015. Kerry sought to secure a pause in Yemen’s war after he arrived to Saudi Arabia to meet with the king and other top officials, citing increased shortages of food, fuel and medicine that are adding to a crisis that already has neighboring countries bracing for a mass exodus of refugees. (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik, Pool)



In the face of mounting criticism from human rights leaders like Malala Yousafzai, who have called Europe’s response to Syrian refugees “pitiful”, EU leaders have struggled to develop systems of collective responsibility for the refugees. Finger-pointing and a human rights tragedy of the commons has come to characterize tepid responses from Germany’s Angela Merkel, the UK’s David Cameron, as well as Hungary, the Czech Republic, Poland, and Slovakia.

The unease created by facts on this human rights tragedy has allowed specious analysis on Saudi Arabia’s and other Gulf States’ response to the crisis to proliferate throughout the West’s media. Thanks to a technicality in counting refugees, hundreds of outlets from Amnesty International to the Brookings Institution have claimed that Saudi Arabia has taken zero refugees—a ludicrous, but rarely fact-checked statement given the comical lack of a “Great Arabian Wall.”

Over the past several months, we have been constantly fed graphics and analysis like the one below from Luay Al-Khatteeb, a fellow of the Brookings Institution. They have indicated that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE have apparently taken zero Syrian refugees. The claim has been cited by nearly every Western publication. A cursory search returns venerable sources including Foreign Policy, the Washington Post, and CNN all falling for the myth.


The above graphic was originally posted by Luay Al-Khatteeb, a researcher associated with the Brookings Institution.

The data source of all of these publications seems to be the UN High Commission of Refugees (UNHCR) itself, which notes that over 4,000,000 refugees have been registered by the UNHCR in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey. None of these refugees are registered in any of the Gulf States, including Saudi Arabia.

However, a look at Saudi Arabia’s UNHCR page has a few curious footnotes that Western publications are conveniently omitting. The UNHCR counts refugees by noting only those “persons recognized as refugees under the 1951 UN Convention/1967 Protocol, the 1969 OAU Convention, in accordance with the UNHCR Statute, persons granted a complementary form of protection and those granted temporary protection.“ Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE are not parties to any of the UN protocols on refugees, and so through this technicality, they, along with most of their refugees, are excluded from many refugee counting mechanisms.



And as if the statement that Saudi Arabia has not taken any refugees were not preposterous enough, with the lack of a “Great Arabian Wall” of sorts, numerous commentators have conveniently overlooked the fact that the noted Gulf States are not included in maps of UNHCR progress reports like this one. One would think that such maps might raise the question, why aren’t any of the Gulf States included in the graphics? And given their exclusion from many UN refugee graphics, one might also ask, is the absence of Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia really due to an astonishingly secure border? Or just a technicality that pundits have deceitfully misinterpreted?

Somehow, even in today’s “enlightened” age where information on human rights is democratized and widely disseminated, the complete absence of Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia is more plausible than the idea of human misinterpretation of statistics. It’s an inconvenient truth that needs to be addressed.



With Saudi Arabia’s non-signatory status, the Syrians residing in Saudi Arabia are classified as “Arab brothers and sisters in distress” instead of refugees covered by UN treaties. According to Nabil Othman, the UNHCR regional representative to the Gulf region, there were 500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia at the time of his statement. The government itself of Saudi Arabia has stated that it has, over the past five years since the start of the conflict hosted 2.5 million refugees.


Because the noted treaties establish treatment standards for refugees, some might raise concerns regarding the conditions that Saudi Arabia’s refugees may be living in. However, Al-Arabiya, a news outlet based in the UAE, has noted that “Saudi authorities granted Syrians the right of residency and work, and provided them with education and health services for free.” According to the Saudi government, over 100,000 children are currently receiving education in the country’s schools. Saudi Arabia is not alone in attempts to provide education for the refugees, with Lebanon now providing schooling for another 100,000 child refugees.

The silence on this issue has redirected the conversation to an absurd idea instead of progressing towards verification of Saudi Arabia’s treatment of Syrian refugees. By focusing on a myth that could easily be debunked with even a cursory look at the UN’s procedures for publishing refugee statistics, the West’s media organizations have been too distracted to verify the Saudi government’s claims.


This entire matter has been quite illustrative of the pitiful proliferation of modern-day yellow journalism, where even the most bizarre misconceptions are palatable enough to become part of mainstream political debates. Syria’s and Europe’s human rights travesty needs no exaggeration. Merkel’s, Cameron’s, Eastern Europe’s, and the US’s pitiful responses cannot be excused by this lie. It has only served to tarnish the worldly reputation of revered organizations like the Brookings Institution and Amnesty International. The claim is the Birtherism of refugee policy, and it’s time we put at least a modicum of effort into determining the exact conditions on the ground.

This post originally appeared on AmericaBlog.com, a site dedicated to commentary on American politics.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/euro...j2X3y_BQ-NDc1EYhEeQOQmlrKnU-19g0&guccounter=2

Western media and Western academics talking about that propaganda against KSA of hosting 0 Syrian refugees.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-syrian-refugee-response-false-and-misleading

And it seems that geography is not your strongest force.

KSA does not border Syria directly. Most Syrians wish to enter Europe/West. KSA already hosts millions of non-locals, including 2 million Yemeni refugees and until recently as many as 500.000 Rohingya.

http://www.arabia-saudita.it/files/news/2018/07/rohingya_brochure_rev.pdf

So how many foreigners do we need to host to make alternative happy aside from the millions of Pakistanis we already host? How about we host everyone in the world to prove that we are not imaginary racists to an ignorant troll on PDF? Give me a rest, enough of this nonsense.
 
Last edited:
.
Arabic influence needs to be removed.

1. I speak from first hand experience when I say Arabs of gulf countries are racist towards other arabs. If there was so much love, Saudi Arabia would've taken the >3 million arabs, not Turkey.

2. You state Arab history with such nationalistic pride, it almost makes me want to puke.

Bottom line is I don't care about history, or influence. It is no secret that Saudi Arabia pressured Pakistan, and that we will never be happy with. Now bark all you want.
As bitter as it sounds to us Pakistanis,
Saudis have whole authority to stop us from attending the summit. They are giving us debts, at a time when we are already stuck in IMF. So with benefits comes conditions as well. However, had we not getting the money, it would be a total different scenerio altogether.

As for your first hand experience, i have as well. Thing is, the racist mentality you are mentioning, is a part of their gene, historically, pre islamic times. Their beef with persians is not just shia sunni or KSA iran, it was persian versus hijaz. The best thing to ignore the racism is to just stay limited and in your own lands. You expect them to give you utmost respect when you are earning in their lands ?
We Pakistanis have quite a soft hand on foreigners on our soil as they are quite similar to us, in this case afghanis. We have privileged them more than they must get. Arabs have better control on expats which in some ways is necessary!!!

Pakistanis can do as they wish
How is your country lately ? And what are the future prospects and development plannings as well as government stability ? Once, Iraq was a Mighty country, in terms of military, similar to us, but the fort was weak !!!
 
.
A big LOL...

One of the reason that Turks still respect Pakistanis is because we don't go there to work en masse like GCC.

Plus, one of the reason that few Turks have distaste about us is because of our illegals there(which currently are 30K iirc)

Not all workers are bad or illegal, and mass working labor sure brings some negativity but overall its beneficial for both countries . If proper Rules set by Govts are followed there wont be a problem, the only problem i see is that Many of the Pakistani's might try to to enter EU , via Turkish border which wont be good .
 
.
Stop writing nonsense and calm down.

1) KSA does not recognize Syrian refugees as migrants and they are called "Arab brothers in distress". I will pick that nonsense of yours about within minutes once I find all the right references, sources and actual evidence.

2) Nonsense. According to every survey in Pakistan, Pakistanis consider KSA as their best ally time and time again and by a clear majority. If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle logic again.

As for the rest of your troll post, filled with insults, although I won't reply in a similar manner although I easily good, nothing more than empty statements that are contrary to ground realities.

I want to poke some reality into your head. The only fucking reason Pakistanis preferred Saudi Arabia was because it is home to Makkah and Medina. Literally, no other reason.

You go today to even the most religiously conservative communities, they hate Saudi Arabia. Since you can't answer the questions, I will answer them for you as a reminder.

1. Saudi Arabia awarded Modi, the buther of gujarat with their highest civilian award, while he clamped down on Muslims in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

2. Not a single statement by Saudi Arabia for Kashmir, not a single statement, they sucked upto India like the money hungry Mushrikeen they are.

3. South Asian workers are treated like second class almost in Gulf countries. The low wages, the high work loads. I have engaged with taxi drivers, and workers in Gulf countries, I know their situation and how the companies are constantly trying to exploit them due to them not having any other option!

4. There is an open, clear discrimination against Muslims from South Asia, for whites from Europe or America in Gulf countries, when it comes to trust and jobs.

5. You speak of diversity so proudly yet you know that no Muslim from South Asia is ever or can ever be granted citizenship in these countires. Ever.

6. We see what's happening in Yemen, Libya. How Saudi Arabia and UAE are funding the destruction of thede countries and creating divide.

7. How OIC, under UAE, invited Indian foreign minister as chief guest while Pakistan was in armed conflict, and then even wants India to join OIC.

The list continues. You can put up any survey you like. I have seen even the most conservative channels and forums, trust me, after Kashmir issue and after this blackmailing by Saudi Arabia, Pakistanis don't even have an ounce of respect left for Saudi Arabia and UAE.

That's all I will say. You can say what you want, know that though, we have had ENOUGH.

As bitter as it sounds to us Pakistanis,
Saudis have whole authority to stop us from attending the summit. They are giving us debts, at a time when we are already stuck in IMF. So with benefits comes conditions as well. However, had we not getting the money, it would be a total different scenerio altogether.

As for your first hand experience, i have as well. Thing is, the racist mentality you are mentioning, is a part of their gene, historically, pre islamic times. Their beef with persians is not just shia sunni or KSA iran, it was persian versus hijaz. The best thing to ignore the racism is to just stay limited and in your own lands. You expect them to give you utmost respect when you are earning in their lands ?
We Pakistanis have quite a soft hand on foreigners on our soil as they are quite similar to us, in this case afghanis. We have privileged them more than they must get. Arabs have better control on expats which in some ways is necessary!!!


How is your country lately ? And what are the future prospects and development plannings as well as government stability ? Once, Iraq was a Mighty country, in terms of military, similar to us, but the fort was weak !!!

True. I hope that we will come out of our financial crisis soon. Needless to say, Pakistan will never look back after Saudi and UAE stance on Kashmir issue, and KL summit, two things of most importance to us.
 
.
I want to poke some reality into your head. The only fucking reason Pakistanis preferred Saudi Arabia was because it is home to Makkah and Medina. Literally, no other reason.

You go today to even the most religiously conservative communities, they hate Saudi Arabia. Since you can't answer the questions, I will answer them for you as a reminder.

1. Saudi Arabia awarded Modi, the buther of gujarat with their highest civilian award, while he clamped down on Muslims in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

2. Not a single statement by Saudi Arabia for Kashmir, not a single statement, they sucked upto India like the money hungry Mushrikeen they are.

3. South Asian workers are treated like second class almost in Gulf countries. The low wages, the high work loads. I have engaged with taxi drivers, and workers in Gulf countries, I know their situation and how the companies are constantly trying to exploit them due to them not having any other option!

4. There is an open, clear discrimination against Muslims from South Asia, for whites from Europe or America in Gulf countries, when it comes to trust and jobs.

5. You speak of diversity so proudly yet you know that no Muslim from South Asia is ever or can ever be granted citizenship in these countires. Ever.

6. We see what's happening in Yemen, Libya. How Saudi Arabia and UAE are funding the destruction of thede countries and creating divide.

7. How OIC, under UAE, invited Indian foreign minister as chief guest while Pakistan was in armed conflict, and then even wants India to join OIC.

The list continues. You can put up any survey you like. I have seen even the most conservative channels and forums, trust me, after Kashmir issue and after this blackmailing by Saudi Arabia, Pakistanis don't even have an ounce of respect left for Saudi Arabia and UAE.

That's all I will say. You can say what you want, know that though, we have had ENOUGH.



True. I hope that we will come out of our financial crisis soon. Needless to say, Pakistan will never look back after Saudi and UAE stance on Kashmir issue, and KL summit, two things of most importance to us.
I see this KL summit eventually turn out to be a bigger flop than OIC,
BUT,
From the ashes of OIC and KLS, will born a new one, one that will be demanded by the need of time. I see 2 thrones on top of it.
 
. . .
I want to poke some reality into your head. The only fucking reason Pakistanis preferred Saudi Arabia was because it is home to Makkah and Medina. Literally, no other reason.

You go today to even the most religiously conservative communities, they hate Saudi Arabia. Since you can't answer the questions, I will answer them for you as a reminder.

1. Saudi Arabia awarded Modi, the buther of gujarat with their highest civilian award, while he clamped down on Muslims in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

2. Not a single statement by Saudi Arabia for Kashmir, not a single statement, they sucked upto India like the money hungry Mushrikeen they are.

3. South Asian workers are treated like second class almost in Gulf countries. The low wages, the high work loads. I have engaged with taxi drivers, and workers in Gulf countries, I know their situation and how the companies are constantly trying to exploit them due to them not having any other option!

4. There is an open, clear discrimination against Muslims from South Asia, for whites from Europe or America in Gulf countries, when it comes to trust and jobs.

5. You speak of diversity so proudly yet you know that no Muslim from South Asia is ever or can ever be granted citizenship in these countires. Ever.

6. We see what's happening in Yemen, Libya. How Saudi Arabia and UAE are funding the destruction of thede countries and creating divide.

7. How OIC, under UAE, invited Indian foreign minister as chief guest while Pakistan was in armed conflict, and then even wants India to join OIC.

The list continues. You can put up any survey you like. I have seen even the most conservative channels and forums, trust me, after Kashmir issue and after this blackmailing by Saudi Arabia, Pakistanis don't even have an ounce of respect left for Saudi Arabia and UAE.

That's all I will say. You can say what you want, know that though, we have had ENOUGH.



True. I hope that we will come out of our financial crisis soon. Needless to say, Pakistan will never look back after Saudi and UAE stance on Kashmir issue, and KL summit, two things of most importance to us.
I have seen so many videos of the way South Asians treated in Saudi and UAE is sickening. How can humans treat that to others?
And it's also surprising how South Asian can take this?? I see so many pro-Arab from Pakistanis its a joke.
 
.
So, it seems like Prime Minister Imran Khan took President Erdogan into confidence during recent meeting, and well, Mr. President said it openly. We might be looking at a diplomatic storm now.
Well, may be or may be not. IK already has lots of storms at home. Let Suadi and Turkey get even in this storm. Pakistan is weak and unstable to qualify for any statement in this regard.
 
.
I have seen so many videos of the way South Asians treated in Saudi and UAE is sickening. How can humans treat that to others?
And it's also surprising how South Asian can take this?? I see so many pro-Arab from Pakistanis its a joke.
It is not pro-Arab.

Let me give you an example.

Here is a thing, you meet a guy with “down’s syndrome”, what you expect to talk to the guy ? Business ? Nope. You just don’t have much to talk to and if anything more, basic hi and hello.

Same is the case, you know, that they have a history. But, they can’t be changed. So better you stay reserved.

I have seen some arabs, far from anything called racist, very good hosts to guests of any origin. So, good and bad everywhere.
 
.
It is not pro-Arab.

Let me give you an example.

Here is a thing, you meet a guy with “down’s syndrome”, what you expect to talk to the guy ? Business ? Nope. You just don’t have much to talk to and if anything more, basic hi and hello.

Same is the case, you know, that they have a history. But, they can’t be changed. So better you stay reserved.

I have seen some arabs, far from anything called racist, very good hosts to guests of any origin. So, good and bad everywhere.
You ignore the treatment they give to your countrymen and women. This is sickening. Unless you raise your voice, they will forever treat you like slaves.
There're what 80 million Arabs in the gulf? of course not all are bad. I am only speaking of the bad that treat fellow humans like garbage and the government not doing anything about it.
And look at you here almost trying to defend them. laughable.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom