Elective Quran course approved for military schools

[TheCommander]

And I'm saying it's pure BS. Sinking of HMS Ocean was indeed important I won't argue with that. But we've had faith we have fought with it for centuries. You can't explain to me Ottoman defeats from the treaty of Karlowitz to the treaty of Sevres. This religious bs brought the mighty Ottoman Empire to it's knees. We won't make the same mistake again.

Heroism comes from defending our homes. And the bravery of our officers inspire our troops. I don't know about you but I'd want my son to serve under better tacticians not better muslims.

Last but not least, I am not the one who manipulate. It's you who's trying to underestimate Ataturk's role in our history.

What tactics he says, Lt. Colonel Kemal has predicted three landing points Brits was going to use in Gallipoli out of six possible landing sites. Through his extraordinary military understanding and intelligence. Without his brilliant and inspirational leadership we'd be doomed.

First of all, you are confused. There were two main wars in the Dardanelles: naval war and ground war. During the naval war, French and British navies were defeated which I gave Seyit Onbasi as most important example of naval war. In the ground war, there were different battlegrounds. One of them was Aribunu. In April 25th 1915, Britisth troops were stopped in Ariburnu by 19th Division under command of Mustafa Kemal. After this success he was promoted to Colonel. British troops, restarted attacking in Ariburnu in August 6-7th 1915 and they were defeated by turkish troops under the command of Lt. Colonel Mustafa Kemal. Likewise, they were defeated in Kirectepe and Anafartalar which Lt. Colonel Mustafa Kemal was named as "hero of Anafarta". I must say noone can underestimate Mustafa Kemal and I never do such a thing. I appreciate his leadership, military skill, knowledge and success. However, besides these battlegrounds, there were other battlegrounds that were led by different commanders (Seddulbahir, 2nd and 3rd Kirte, Zigindere battlegrounds). We must give credits to those as well.

Again you are talking about an era which more than 200 years and as I said you must consider the situation and condition of that era. There were many things affected those defeats (economical, social, technological, political problems) and you are relating all defeats to religion. This is the exact BS. If it is related to religion, then tell me how ottoman empire 200-300 years ruled the five continents?

Let me tell you the differences between you and me:

I say: I prefer my son to serve under a commander who is a highly skilled, knowledgeable, intelligent, and faithful.
You say: I'd want my son to serve under better tacticians not better muslims.

I say (like our leader and many other good examples. Also look at the US army, Israel army (Israeli soldiers recite Torah whereever they find to recite)): Faith can give determination, strength, and courage to soldiers.
You say: Faith brings almighty soldiers to their knees.

I also say: 98% of this country is muslim. It is so normal a student to learn his/her religion. In my perspective it is a matter of freedom of religion which a secular state must assure.

I also say: The army is our army and its not a monopoly of any group. Hence, our army must open eveyone

I also say: Noone should be fired from the army because of his/her faith.

 

[TurAr]

Okay, few questions...

I say: I prefer my son to serve under a commander who is a highly skilled, knowledgeable, intelligent, and faithful.

What makes a man with faith better than those who have not?

I also say: 98% of this country is muslim. It is so normal a student to learn his/her religion. In my perspective it is a matter of freedom of religion which a secular state must assure.

Do you really think the purpose of this regulation is to expand freedoms? Is 'assuring secularism' our government's intention here?

 

[Azadkashmir]

What will happen to those who don't believe your God or your religion?

Edit:

???

that picture is fake look at it I have been a on another forum and this pictures said to be fake.
look in the background those guys dont even look pak and are looking another direction while the one at the front are scarfed up all boards same hand writing.

 

[TurAr]

that picture is fake look at it I have been a on another forum and this pictures said to be fake.
look in the background those guys dont even look pak and are looking another direction while the one at the front are scarfed up all boards same hand writing.

Could be... That wasn't my point. I wanted to show there are people who think like that and if it is what Killuminati wants.

Btw, there are many pictures with the same slogan in google, i'm sure some of them are real.

 

[Azadkashmir]

Could be... That wasn't my point. I wanted to show there are people who think like that and if it is what Killuminati wants.

Btw, there are many pictures with the same slogan in google, i'm sure some of them are real.

brother is it so obvious pic is fake the characters are not even looking in the same direction why guys at the front covered not the back ones is it cos they dont want us to reconise them. about 10 to 20 boards same handwriting come on who they kidding. You do know you can hire black brown guys that will just take money and do acting. Indians do it all the time on film programs pretending to be pakistanis on British television lolz.

 

[TheCommander]

What makes a man with faith better than those who have not?

As I explained, faith can grant "determination, strength, and courage" to a soldier. What our soldier say is ''If I die, I will go to the paradise; If I get wounded, I will be Ghazi". For a faithful soldier martyrdom is the highest rank/degree for a dead person, that is why faith can play an important role.

Do you really think the purpose of this regulation is to expand freedoms? Is 'assuring secularism' our government's intention here?

I first should say, I do not like AKP at all. I do not know what the purpose of this regulation for me it should be as freedom of religion. our government might seek different agenda. But TurAr, if you look at the our army, there were many discriminations against to religious people. As if those people are not the citizens of this country and as if majority of this country is not muslim. I do not wanna repeat myself, for me it is good to see such improvement to expand freedoms.

 

[TurAr]

I first should say, I do not like AKP at all. I do not know what the purpose of this regulation for me it should be as freedom of religion. our government might seek different agenda. But TurAr, if you look at the our army, there were many discriminations against to religious people. As if those people are not the citizens of this country and as if majority of this country is not muslim. I do not wanna repeat myself, for me it is good to see such improvement to expand freedoms.

That is why i asked that question, because for me, they aren't trying to maintain the balance by this regulation but trying to shift it to the other side. That's why i'm saying this has nothing to do with expanding freedoms.

As I explained, faith can grand "determination, strength, and courage" to a soldier. What our soldier say is ''If I die, I will go to the paradise; If I get wounded, I will be Ghazi". For a faithful soldier martyrdom is the highest rank/degree for a dead person, that is why faith can play an important role.

If so, why our overly religious politicians are doing everything they can in order to prevent their sons going to southeast to do their military servings. Why are they taking the chance from them of being marty, the highest degree for a dead, absolute enterence to the heaven?

brother is so obvious pic is fake the characters are not even looking in the same direction why guys at the front covered not the back ones is it cos they dont want us to reconise them. about 10 to 20 boards same handwriting come on who they kidding.

As i said it could be fake... But that doesn't change the fact that there are people who thinks like that.

 

[Azadkashmir]

That is why i asked that question, because for me, they aren't trying to maintain the balance by this regulation but trying to shift it to the other side. That's why i'm saying this has nothing to do with expanding freedoms.



If so, why our overly religious politicians are doing everything they can in order to prevent their sons going to southeast to do their military servings. Why are they taking the chance from them of being marty, the highest degree for a dead, absolute enterence to the heaven?



As i said it could be fake... But that doesn't change the fact that there are people who thinks like that.

take a good look at the southern Texas areas not much different. it not just muslims.

 

[TheCommander]

@TurAr

You are 100% right about the politicians. Unfortunately, hypocrisy is everywhere. Noone wants his beloved son to die even it means martyrdom. If they are hypocrite, it is their fault and they will pay for it. But, it is not related to faith at all.

About the balance we must learn to do it sooner or later. If we try to understand each others; if we can learn to tolerate others, if we can learn to live together without discriminating. Then we will be the united secular state

 

[LegionnairE]

I say (like our leader and many other good examples. Also look at the US army, Israel army (Israeli soldiers recite Torah whereever they find to recite)): Faith can give determination, strength, and courage to soldiers.
You say: Faith brings almighty soldiers to their knees.

I also say: 98% of this country is muslim. It is so normal a student to learn his/her religion. In my perspective it is a matter of freedom of religion which a secular state must assure.

I also say: The army is our army and its not a monopoly of any group. Hence, our army must open eveyone

I also say: Noone should be fired from the army because of his/her faith.

It was okay untill here. Underlined sentence, total BS. I've never said such a thing. Faith has brought down Ottoman Empire to it's knees by making it snob and overconfident. The empire never questioned itself, never thought clearly, stood indifferent to French Revolution, Renassaince and Reform. They stood indifferent to the advancements in military technology and doctrine. Just embraced religion more and more. Even the fvcking Egyptians defeated our pious guys with decent military understanding.

I say it is the Army's duty to serve and protect this country and it's foundations. It isn't obliged to serve anyone's political interests unless it's threatened politically. Than it's okay to hang some corrupt politicians.

Nothing has ever changed in Islam, certainly not in a positive way. Military is about adaptation, change. What does not change gets weaker and eventually destroyed.

Also I don't give a sh*t what israeli soldiers do, US army is fully professional and religion has little to no effect in pretty much anything.

 

[somebozo]

It was okay untill here. Underlined sentence, total BS. I've never said such a thing. Faith has brought down Ottoman Empire to it's knees by making it snob and overconfident. The empire never questioned itself, never thought clearly, stood indifferent to French Revolution, Renassaince and Reform. They stood indifferent to the advancements in military technology and doctrine. Just embraced religion more and more. Even the fvcking Egyptians defeated our pious guys with decent military understanding.

I say it is the Army's duty to serve and protect this country and it's foundations. It isn't obliged to serve anyone's political interests unless it's threatened politically. Than it's okay to hang some corrupt politicians.

Nothing has ever changed in Islam, certainly not in a positive way. Military is about adaptation, change. What does not change gets weaker and eventually destroyed.

Also I don't give a sh*t what israeli soldiers do, US army is fully professional and religion has little to no effect in pretty much anything.

Islam as a political doctrine is a failed experiment which has not resulted in any kind of advancements or achievement in the past or present. Political Islam is also a strong polarization magnate which breeds black and white "we against them" mentality from a relatively young age. So the society fragments over a period of time into Muslims vs non-muslims, shia vs sunni, believer vs dhimmi etc...Pakistan is a good example of why religion should be kept out of politics. The place of religion is masjid, not parliament.

 

[LegionnairE]

Islam as a political doctrine is a failed experiment which has not resulted in any kind of advancements or achievement in the past or present. Political Islam is also a strong polarization magnate which breeds black and white "we against them" mentality from a relatively young age. So the society fragments over a period of time into Muslims vs non-muslims, shia vs sunni, believer vs dhimmi etc...Pakistan is a good example of why religion should be kept out of politics. The place of religion is masjid, not parliament.

Couldn't put it better myself. Turkey is trying to un-learn what was learned in 1920s. It's all doing of Neo-Ottomanist scum.

There was a misattributed quote allegedly from Vladimir Putin it said: "Whoever doesn't miss the Soviet Union has no heart, whoever wants it back has no brain"

Same goes with Ottoman Empire and any country with an imperial history.

 

[somebozo]

Couldn't put it better myself. Turkey is trying to un-learn what was learned in 1920s. It's all doing of Neo-Ottomanist scum.

There was a misattributed quote allegedly from Vladimir Putin it said: "Whoever doesn't miss the Soviet Union has no heart, whoever wants it back has no brain"

Same goes with Ottoman Empire and any country with an imperial history.

Lying, Deception and hypocrisy has become a norm of Islamic culture and the precise reason lies in the polarization factor of political islam. The entire concept is based on imposing superior morals on supposedly deviant people. So the Muslim caliphs must be portrayed as untouchable divine and pure being. Which means the history being taught today is overly bloated and glorified which fills the the mind of a young person with utter rubbish of supremacy and purity - sort of like Nazi doctrine.

So for example, the typical Islamic history of Conquest of Syria paint a rosy picture of oppressed being liberated, slaved being freed and the deviant being blessed with Islam, the independent sources paint a completely different picture - that of massacre and savagery by people of medieval mindset. However, if the correct history is taught to the student of Islam then it will have a profound disillusionment effect and will weaken the kind of grip and fervor corrupt rulers are trying to establish on their subject in order to expand their own empire and wealth. So mullahs on royal payroll spend day and night perfecting forged history and education materials for the young minds.

 

[TheCommander]

It was okay untill here. Underlined sentence, total BS. I've never said such a thing. Faith has brought down Ottoman Empire to it's knees by making it snob and overconfident. The empire never questioned itself, never thought clearly, stood indifferent to French Revolution, Renassaince and Reform. They stood indifferent to the advancements in military technology and doctrine. Just embraced religion more and more. Even the fvcking Egyptians defeated our pious guys with decent military understanding.

I say it is the Army's duty to serve and protect this country and it's foundations. It isn't obliged to serve anyone's political interests unless it's threatened politically. Than it's okay to hang some corrupt politicians.

Nothing has ever changed in Islam, certainly not in a positive way. Military is about adaptation, change. What does not change gets weaker and eventually destroyed.

Also I don't give a sh*t what israeli soldiers do, US army is fully professional and religion has little to no effect in pretty much anything.

The original discussion was "what does faith contribute a soldier", right? I tried to explain what faith can provide for soldiers. You bought up ottoman empire and her failure. And you are saying its is because of the faith. You are totally wrong. Put this in your mind, it was not because of the faith but because of the many other things. I agree with you that ottoman empire did not renew herself, did not follow the science and technology. They underestimated west (especially after those dominance years) and even some religious leaders contribute those wrong policies. BUT, it was not because of the faith but their personality, characters, and social cultures. How a religion whom first verse of Quran say "Read" and its prophet (pbuh) said "ilim (science) is the missing property of muslims, therefore, go to China if it is there" could cuase such a thing? Islam encourages "ilim" science, technology. There are many examples. If the faith was the problem, then there would be no scientific revolution (there are many muslim scientists who invented many things). Therefore, noone can say the failure was because of the faith. You have bias and antipathy to faith. It is your choice and your problem. But do not expect us to believe same things as you do.

Anyway, I think I made my points and there is no need to discuss further, otherwise it will be waste of my time.

 

[Killuminati]

Yup, for me this is my religion, and for you that that is yours.

You can not expect me to behave according to your religion. You can not expect from every woman to wear burqas just because it is against your belief, because seeing the skin of a woman is enough to give you a boner. You can not expect from government to ban those "immoral" tv shows, you have no right to intervine in my life.

I have no intention to give lectures about Islam, i'm just talking about your sick mentality.

Indeed there is the door. Why are you still in Netherlands?

Do you get error codes in your programmed brain while you try to understand my words or am i the one that just cant
explain some simple facts? I think tts hard for you to look outside your small box i know but again we talking about a law system.. You dont have to believe in Islam but you are obliged to follow the law system of that country. So you have a shariah but also a law under shariah that counts for the non-muslim population. You get it now?

I am obliged to follow the laws of this non-muslim country as well so whats the point? I am getting tired of your retard situation. You repeating only the same bs over and over again.