Elective Quran course approved for military schools

[TheCommander]

And i agree with you too mate, people must left alone with their faith but unfortunately AKP is not doing that.

Yes, there are extreme secularist people just like there are extreme islamists, extreme nationalists etc...

Even if it is elective, what is the point of this? I don't think encouragement of religion by state in the army, especially in Turkish army, is a good idea. As Saithan said, many people still considering it as the guarentor of Turkish Secularism. Leaving people with their faith alone should also cover the soldiers, but i can't see what good teaching a particular religion would bring to them. There are many Quran courses for that purpose...

And as Norboo said:



But it will be the opposite in short term, those who choose to learn Quran may face with 'mockery'. Then here we go, another wave of "Dinci ağlaklığı"...

And it might cause two different groups in the army which is, again, not good.

I got you my friend and understand your concern. However, in my opinion, allowing citizens (either in the military or police academy or somewhere else) is not encouragement of religion. I think it is the nature of secular state. Well you might say how secular state we are, it is true although in the constitution we are a secular state in the reality we are not a real secular state. This is another subject to discuss. My perspective for his as freedom of religion. And I do not agree that the army is the guarantor of secularism. We, as citizens, are the guarantor of our regime. Look at the world, sooner or later any regime that does not have public support collapse(d). As long as we support our regime, no politicians can change it. My friend, you also mention there are some Qur`an courses for the teach religion, but tell me please have you ever seen any students from military collage attending those courses? Until recently, our army unfortunately used to close to religious people. But, the army is our army and it must be open for every citizen regardless of their faith. If I am wrong, please correct me.

About the mockery, it is up to administration to prevent such a thing. We must learn to respect each other. I have been in the US for and believe me my friend, no one cares what you believe or what you do not believe. In this university, you can see very different people, but I have never seen any conflict among them. This should be our goal to reach. We cannot give up our right because of this kind of problem.

Right, let's say you are right and we won in the battle of dardanelles and the war of independence out of god's grace. So the god was hating us since the treaty of karlowitz? So Mustafa Kemal takes command and all miracles come together, suddenly we are more faithful? According to this logic we've been kafirs for more than a fvcking century so that's why we've lost Balkan wars.

Pull your heads out of your azzes men, it doesn't matter if Cpl. Seyit lifted that bullet or not we've won through superior tactics, morale and determination.

You are manipulating and taking out of contents what I said. The question was what will this course add to our soldiers? and you were saying our soldier can fight with the power of faith (iman). I showed what the faith added (can add) our soldier and people. I am not saying we won the battle of Dardanelles only because of our faithful soldier, but as Ataturk said, the faith (iman) played an important role to win the war. In my opinion, in order to win a war, a country must have a good military technology, but at the same time faithful soldiers. The era you talked about was totally different subject and it must be counted based on the conditions and situations at that time. You might disagree that faith is not important and then tell me how you can explain our leaders words and other examples I gave?

Besides, you said

it doesn't matter if Cpl. Seyit lifted that bullet or not we've won through superior tactics, morale and determination

. I think you need a serious lesson about the battle of Dardanelles. Why do you think Seyit Onbasi is a legend? What happened after he hit the British Ocean battleship? In addition, could you elaborate because of what superior tactics we won the battle?

Last word, when you talk to me DO NOT USE INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE please.

 

[TurAr]

About the mockery, it is up to administration to prevent such a thing. We must learn to respect each other. I have been in the US for and believe me my friend, no one cares what you believe or what you do not believe. In this university, you can see very different people, but I have never seen any conflict among them. This should be our goal to reach. We cannot give up our right because of this kind of problem.

100% Agreed.

I will give more detailed answer when i come back, but i have to go now.

Have a nice day.

 

[LegionnairE]

You are manipulating and taking out of contents what I said. The question was what will this course add to our soldiers? and you were saying our soldier can fight with the power of faith (iman). I showed what the faith added (can add) our soldier and people. I am not saying we won the battle of Dardanelles only because of our faithful soldier, but as Ataturk said, the faith (iman) played an important role to win the war. In my opinion, in order to win a war, a country must have a good military technology, but at the same time faithful soldiers. The era you talked about was totally different subject and it must be counted based on the conditions and situations at that time. You might disagree that faith is not important and then tell me how you can explain our leaders words and other examples I gave?

Besides, you said . I think you need a serious lesson about the battle of Dardanelles. Why do you think Seyit Onbasi is a legend? What happened after he hit the British Ocean battleship? In addition, could you elaborate because of what superior tactics we won the battle?

Last word, when you talk to me DO NOT USE INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE please.

And I'm saying it's pure BS. Sinking of HMS Ocean was indeed important I won't argue with that. But we've had faith we have fought with it for centuries. You can't explain to me Ottoman defeats from the treaty of Karlowitz to the treaty of Sevres. This religious bs brought the mighty Ottoman Empire to it's knees. We won't make the same mistake again.

Heroism comes from defending our homes. And the bravery of our officers inspire our troops. I don't know about you but I'd want my son to serve under better tacticians not better muslims.

Last but not least, I am not the one who manipulate. It's you who's trying to underestimate Ataturk's role in our history.

What tactics he says, Lt. Colonel Kemal has predicted three landing points Brits was going to use in Gallipoli out of six possible landing sites. Through his extraordinary military understanding and intelligence. Without his brilliant and inspirational leadership we'd be doomed.

 

[Killuminati]

News articles like this are nothing but a good proof in what kind of retard situation the Ummah is. In this case, whats the point of teaching people that already reached their adulty and even passed it? Its the job of parents to start teaching their sons and daughters when they are kids.

But yeah, we live in times when tv series, women programs, diet programs, iphones, samsung galaxies etc. are more important than religion. So nothing amazing if we see news articles like this.

 

[TurAr]

News articles like this are nothing but a good proof in what kind of retard situation the Ummah is. In this case, whats the point of teaching people that already reached their adulty and even passed it? Its the job of parents to start teaching their sons and daughters when they are kids.

Wow dude, i see an improvement. Few months ago, you were saying listening to music is a sin. Look at you now.

 

[Killuminati]

Wow dude, i see an improvement. Few months ago, you were saying listening to music is a sin. Look at you now.

I am nog a zigzag guy like you or like the politics thats going on. What i said then, counts for now, tomorow and for ever. If you look at my comment, you can understand clearly that i pointed to the hypocrisy of politics. At one side you have all the media power and showing immoral tv series etc. and on other side you building mosques, putting elective Quran courses while meantime deviding the whole country for benefits of kafeers.

So try to figure out a persons comment before talking about improvements.

 

[BronzePlaque]

Islam hating Turks?


Wtf?

RazPak, dear brother, if you read the discussions going on carefully, you will see that no one is talking with anti-Islam sentiment here..We are just talking about the necessity of religious classes in military schools..If you have an opinion about it please share, if not please just dont label us here as Islam hating Turks..Thanks

 

[TurAr]

I am nog a zigzag guy like you or like the politics thats going on. What i said then, counts for now, tomorow and for ever. If you look at my comment, you can understand clearly that i pointed to the hypocrisy of politics. At one side you have all the media power and showing immoral tv series etc. and on other side you building mosques, putting elective Quran courses while meantime deviding the whole country for benefits of kafeers.

So try to figure out a persons comment before talking about improvements.

Well, that's is the job of politics/democracy, seeking the balance between different people. You see, there are people who likes to watch those "immoral" tv series. Just because you can not hold your boner doesn't mean they should ban it. And there are people who are more interested with Quran and mosques aka religion. Again, just because there are anti-religion people doesn't mean they should ban practicing it.

Btw, i'm taking my word back about how you improved yourself... Because you apparently not.

 

[RazPaK]

You guys do realize the only reason your troops never get attacked in Afghanistan is because the Afghans consider you army as Muslim.

 

[TurAr]

You guys do realize the only reason your troops never get attacked in Afghanistan is because the Afghans consider you army as Muslim.

And your point is...? Should we give up from our secularism in order to impress Afghans?

Afghans should decide who to attack by looking their intentions, not their religions. That is one of the reasons why Afghanistan is a shthole right now.

 

[BronzePlaque]

You guys do realize the only reason your troops never get attacked in Afghanistan is because the Afghans consider you army as Muslim.

and what has this to do anything with the topic mate? Taliban nutheads attack Pakistan army constantly, are you implying that Taliban sees Pakistani army as non-Muslim army? Thats completely illogical

 

[RazPaK]

and what has this to do anything with the topic mate? Taliban nutheads attack Pakistan army constantly, are you implying that Taliban sees Pakistani army as non-Muslim army? Thats completely illogical

My point is even non muslim Turks learning Islam is beneficial to the army. Knowledge is power.

 

[TurAr]

My point is even non muslim Turks learning Islam is beneficial to the army. Knowledge is power.

Instead of giving advices to Turks about how to survive in Afghanistan go and complain to those "muslims" who are beheading people just because they were dancing.

Indeed knowledge is power, you should have some...

 

[JonAsad]

Its the equivalent of Talibans electively following the teachings of the Holy Quran for their cause-

 

[BronzePlaque]

My point is even non muslim Turks learning Islam is beneficial to the army. Knowledge is power.

Mate i respect your opinion..But imo, military schools have one and only purpose; to give students a regimented education while trying to instill the qualities of leadership, responsibility and respect for the armed forces. There is no place for religious classes in military schools..They can learn it in their social lives..No one is opposing that