Egypt | Army Ousts Mursi govt, violence erupts | News & Discussions

[TheThreePashas]

Wrong, he is being charged with the premeditated murder of conscripts, officers and inmates while escaping Wady Alnatroon prison in cooperation with Hamas (who had multiple prisoners there).

Did this now become a crime? Where was the charge when he was running for president?

You shameless cowards. What was he jailed for again? Belonging to the MB? Hmm...

 

[Frogman]

Did this now become a crime? Where was the charge when he was running for president?

You shameless cowards. What was he jailed for again? Belonging to the MB? Hmm...

The matter was being investigated for over a year and the investigation of this matter was announced by a judge a few months before he was ousted. Are you saying the killing of guards and inmates is not a crime?

Why he was arrested and put in prison is irrelevant.

 

[TheThreePashas]

The matter was being investigated for over a year and the investigation of this matter was announced by a judge a few months before he was ousted. Are you saying the killing of guards and inmates is not a crime?

Why he was arrested and put in prison is irrelevant.

Okay well attacking the regime was completely the cool thing to do then right? So why are they picking out this incident now? How many security forces died protecting the Mubarak regime?

It's irrelevant????? It's totally relevant. The army is trying to portray this not as a coup, but as a forced early election right? So why imprison the leader you deposed then. He should be free to walk around and especially, free to run again.

Just for the record, I'm pro-liberal, not pro-Brotherhood. By the way.

 

[Algeria]

Wrong, he is being charged with the premeditated murder of conscripts, officers and inmates while escaping Wady Alnatroon prison in cooperation with Hamas (who had multiple prisoners there).

No its true.
theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/26/egypt-morsi-investigation-hamas-collusion
Stop lying he did NOT escape from prison!! There is something called internet,
he phoned authorities from the jail saying "I am staying here we don't run what should we do?".
It was aired on Al Jazeera a thousand times.
[video]youtube.com/watch?v=YuheG_0-Daw[/video]

 

[Frogman]

Okay well attacking the regime was completely the cool thing to do then right? So why are they picking out this incident now? How many security forces died protecting the Mubarak regime?

I'm not really sure what your point is about attacking the regime, could you please elaborate.

I don't know the official figures for the amount of security personnel but it wasn't an insignificant number.

We all know why these charges are put to him now, however, that doesn't change the fact that he may have been involved in criminal activity.

It's irrelevant????? It's totally relevant. The army is trying to portray this not as a coup, but as a forced early election right? So why imprison the leader you deposed then. He should be free to walk around and especially, free to run again.

Its mainly for security purposes I suspect. There's no going back, Morsi is done even the MB leadership know that. Hes being held for 15 days under investigation (which can be renewed every 15 days).

Just for the record, I'm pro-liberal, not pro-Brotherhood. By the way.

You'd get the same answers from me either way.

No its true.
theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/26/egypt-morsi-investigation-hamas-collusion
Stop lying he did NOT escape from prison!! There is something called internet,
he phoned authorities from the jail saying "I am staying here we don't run what should we do?".
It was aired on Al Jazeera a thousand times.
[video]youtube.com/watch?v=YuheG_0-Daw[/video]

Yes, collusion to what.....

Morsi is under investigation for colluding with the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, during the 2011 uprising that toppled Mubarak. The charges allege that Morsi and other senior Muslim Brothers were rescued from jail during the revolution with Hamas's assistance, and then helped Hamas to attack Egyptian police facilities and murder policemen during the ousting of Mubarak. The Muslim Brotherhood says the fugitives left with the help of locals and that Hamas had no role in the uprising.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/26/egypt-morsi-investigation-hamas-collusion

Learn to read. What he said after the escape is of no interest to me. Whether he is guilty or innocent also doesn't bother me.

Earlier Friday, judicial authorities announced prosecutors are investigating allegations that Morsi conspired with the militant Palestinian Islamist organization Hamas in a 2011 prison break that freed him and about 30 other Muslim Brotherhood members amid the chaos of the Arab Spring uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak.

The allegations also include murder and kidnapping in connection with the prison break northwest of Cairo, in which prosecutors say Hamas gunmen attacked the facility at the behest of Morsi and the Brotherhood, killing 14 guards.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-07-26/world/40864517_1_mohamed-morsi-muslim-brotherhood-cairo

 

[TheThreePashas]

(1)I'm not really sure what your point is about attacking the regime, could you please elaborate.
I don't know the official figures for the amount of security personnel but it wasn't an insignificant number.

(2) We all know why these charges are put to him now, however, that doesn't change the fact that he may have been involved in criminal activity.
(3) Its mainly for security purposes I suspect. There's no going back, Morsi is done even the MB leadership know that. Hes being held for 15 days under investigation (which can be renewed every 15 days).
(4)You'd get the same answers from me either way.

(1) My point about attacking the regime is that many protesters and revolutionaries did the same yet obviously, they were not charged. Why morsi? Especially when he was breaking out of prison for such a BS charge.

(2) It doesn't change the fact he was involved in criminal activity maybe but the fact that the army, who was in control at the time of Morsi's election, clearly had no problem with his criminal activity beforehand. So if the army wasn't considering his actions against the law then, doing it now means he's been arrested purely because of politics.

(3) Surely him being held for now is because of security reasons but I very much so doubt that he'll be free to go after the crisis is over. Yes, he's done as the MB leader. Obviously even if the MB re-emerges they will need a new, legitimate leader, not a deposed one.

(4) Good. I just want you to know I'm not saying anything out of support of the Brotherhood, more-so against the Army.

 

[Frogman]

(1) My point about attacking the regime is that many protesters and revolutionaries did the same yet obviously, they were not charged. Why morsi? Especially when he was breaking out of prison for such a BS charge

Thousands were arrested and tortured by the secuirity forces and a portion of those were put to trail in military courts and subsequently jailed. The difference is that they acted out of self defence and their actions weren't premeditated. Whether the charge is BS or not is up to the judiciary and not me. I'm just clarifying what the charges are.

(2) It doesn't change the fact he was involved in criminal activity maybe but the fact that the army, who was in control at the time of Morsi's election, clearly had no problem with his criminal activity beforehand. So if the army wasn't considering his actions against the law then, doing it now means he's been arrested purely because of politics.

Its a well known fact that he military and the MB struck a deal before presidential and parliamentary elections as the revolutionaries sought to confront them as a result of their actions and views while the MB brown nosed them.

(3) Surely him being held for now is because of security reasons but I very much so doubt that he'll be free to go after the crisis is over. Yes, he's done as the MB leader. Obviously even if the MB re-emerges they will need a new, legitimate leader, not a deposed one.

He's done for as Mubarak was. If Morsi is let go then surely Mubarak must be let go as they share similar charges. Morsi still has other charges on him which haven't been investigated yet, the same one that got Mubarak has been filed on him (negligence on the matter of killing protesters or something like that) .

(4) Good. I just want you to know I'm not saying anything out of support of the Brotherhood, more-so against the Army.

Cool.

 

[TheThreePashas]

Thousands were arrested and tortured by the secuirity forces and a portion of those were put to trail in military courts and subsequently jailed. The difference is that they acted out of self defence and their actions weren't premeditated. Whether the charge is BS or not is up to the judiciary and not me. I'm just clarifying what the charges are.



Its a well known fact that he military and the MB struck a deal before presidential and parliamentary elections as the revolutionaries sought to confront them as a result of their actions and views while the MB brown nosed them.



He's done for as Mubarak was. If Morsi is let go then surely Mubarak must be let go as they share similar charges. Morsi still has other charges on him which haven't been investigated yet, the same one that got Mubarak has been filed on him (negligence on the matter of killing protesters or something like that) .



Cool.

Eh.. Letting Mubarak go is on a waaaay different scale.

# of people Morsi Neglected < # of people Mubarak ordered dead..
Morsi also, by your argument, put the Egyptian people through one year of suffering. Mubarak, decades.

 

[Frogman]

Eh.. Letting Mubarak go is on a waaaay different scale.

I know and agree but if Morsi is released without due process (on phony charges or not) those who support the old regime will ask why Morsi received preferential treatment and that's something we don't want or need. I would much rather see him being found innocent on these charges than simply being released.

# of people Morsi Neglected < # of people Mubarak ordered dead..

Morsi's hands are not free of blood.

Morsi also, by your argument, put the Egyptian people through one year of suffering. Mubarak, decades.

Yet, he mustered a greater crowd against him in one year. Mubarak was smart enough not to try interfere in the nations religious and cultural fabric.

 

[TheThreePashas]

(1)I know and agree but if Morsi is released without due process (on phony charges or not) those who support the old regime will ask why Morsi received preferential treatment and that's something we don't want or need. I would much rather see him being found innocent on these charges than simply being released.

(2)Morsi's hands are not free of blood.

(3) Yet, he mustered a greater crowd against him in one year. Mubarak was smart enough not to try interfere in the nations religious and cultural fabric.

1. I couldn't agree more. Due process must go on but I think eventually he deserves to be released and honestly, it didn't seem like he was arrested by law enforcement like he should have but instead kidnapped by Al-Sissy.

2. ..True I guess. But to me, there's a difference between provoke the population against eachother and not being able to stop small amount of violence and directly ordering the secret police to kill people, firing at protesters, etc..

3. And this is what amazes me. I have no doubt that if you took the percentage of people against Morsi and against Mubarak during their respective downfalls, people were vastly more anti-Mubarak. People were also more afraid of Mubarak, keep that in mind. Morsi even at his height was never too powerful.

 

[Frogman]

1. I couldn't agree more. Due process must go on but I think eventually he deserves to be released and honestly, it didn't seem like he was arrested by law enforcement like he should have but instead kidnapped by Al-Sissy.

If he was truly kidnapped then the interim government/presidency wouldn't have allowed foreign delegations to visit him. I think letting him go and rearresting him wouldn't have been a bright idea since he would have joined his brothers in Rab3a and probably escelated the situation to something that would have been truly dangerous.

2. ..True I guess. But to me, there's a difference between provoke the population against eachother and not being able to stop small amount of violence and directly ordering the secret police to kill people, firing at protesters, etc..

The MB used its followers to attack a protest in front of the Ittahadia presidential palace. Using melee weapons and rudimentary firearms resulting in the death of five political activists, the Mb militia was supported by the police to clear the protest.

3. And this is what amazes me. I have no doubt that if you took the percentage of people against Morsi and against Mubarak during their respective downfalls, people were vastly more anti-Mubarak. People were also more afraid of Mubarak, keep that in mind. Morsi even at his height was never too powerful.

Everyone was behind him when he was elected but we soon saw what he actually was and what he was preoccupied with namely power.

This was my statement on FB the day of his election

Good day for Egypt our first ever legitamitly elected President and the Egyptian people have chosen the option (Mohammed Morsy) who does not betray Egypts revoloution. Long live the Arab Republic of Egypt &#9829;

I was naive.

 

[TheThreePashas]

If he was truly kidnapped then the interim government/presidency wouldn't have allowed foreign delegations to visit him. I think letting him go and rearresting him wouldn't have been a bright idea since he would have joined his brothers in Rab3a and probably escelated the situation to something that would have been truly dangerous.



The MB used its followers to attack a protest in front of the Ittahadia presidential palace. Using melee weapons and rudimentary firearms resulting in the death of five political activists, the Mb militia was supported by the police to clear the protest.



Everyone was behind him when he was elected but we soon saw what he actually was and what he was preoccupied with namely power.

This was my statement on FB the day of his election


I was naive.

Yeah they shouldn't have let him go and rearrested him because like you said, that could have escalated things. BUT. I don't think that letting the EU delegates visit him is a really indication he wasn't captured.. They still could have done things openly, without putting him into some secret hiding place. It's just an open suspension of Egyptian law

And yeah, I do agree that he was mainly occupied with going after power and a huge disappointment. Thats why I couldn't care less that he's gone, more so angry about the coup. I too was pretty optimistic about Morsi however, I think the Army could have done a better job forcing elections rather than just deposing him. Idk, it was too planned and too fake.

 

[islamrules]

 

[islamrules]

Rabia Square from the sky

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1395416294015207

 

[Frogman]

BUT. I don't think that letting the EU delegates visit him is a really indication he wasn't captured.. They still could have done things openly, without putting him into some secret hiding place. It's just an open suspension of Egyptian law

Well, if his location is disclosed (in prison or specific military base) then protesters will move to that place to either raid it or protest in front of it and we certainly don't want a repeat of the Presidential Guard event.

. I too was pretty optimistic about Morsi however, I think the Army could have done a better job forcing elections rather than just deposing him. Idk, it was too planned and too fake.

The miltary was trying to hold national reconciliation talks for months (6 of em) between the presidency and the opposition. The presidency refused the talks (military would hold them but wouldn't interfere in them) and the opposition followed suit. Sisi also advised Morsi to call for a referendum three times before June. They gave a week for national reconciliation before the 30th and 48 hours (to call for elections not national reconciliation or constitutional amendments) after the 30th. Morsi had chances to avert this but he didn't.