Edit: DAC 13thMay 2015 : M777, C295, Brahmos deals cleared.. 200 Ka226T ordered, Plan for INS Vishal

[tsinga]

If the forces and the govt act smart, this can be a real steal. The IAF's An-32s will need to be replaced in the near future, and the C-295 outclasses them in every parameter. There are 105 An-32s in active service. The C-295 can be a good replacement for both Avros and An-32s, which will bring more commonality, and lower procurement costs. (And much lower operational and fuel costs.)

IMO, the entire fixed wing light transport class of aircrafts in all the military and paramilitary forces should be borne by these C-295s. Only the medium weight transports seem to be stuck in limbo, with the MRTA or MTA or whatever is envisioned. If that doesn't come to fruition, a similar make in India deal for C-130J-30 (non spec force version) should be thought about.

Don't the C295 and An-32 have different transport capability?

C-295 can carry only 9 tons.

 

[IND151]

The government tonight cleared the lone bid of Airbus-TATA consortium for replacing Indian Air Force's fleet of ageing Avro transport aircraft for Rs 11,930 crore besides approving Russia's offer to build Kamov Ka-226T helicopters under 'Make in India' initiative.

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), which met here, also cleared the proposal to convert two Boeing 777-300 ER for VVIP travel, defence sources said.

Other major proposals cleared in the meeting, chaired by Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, included six new BrahMos supersonic cruise missile systems for the Indian Navy worth Rs 2,700 crore and acquisition of 145 pieces of M777 Ultra-Light Howitzers from the US under a government to government deal.

Govt nod to Rs 11,930 cr Airbus-TATA consortium bid to replace | Business Standard News

@sancho Now at least all the tenders where singlle bid situation occurs and which has no deviations and is completely clean , the chances of approval runs higher. This saves us from "vortex" of cancellations and re tendering.

The Avro replacement is late but i still welcome it openly. At least its now more or less a step taken in the right direction.
But we do need more on Medium Weight category lifters.. A proper plan and perhaps indigenous project.

Defence ministry clears pending stalled projects worth Rs 25,000 crore

NEW DELHI: The defence ministry on Wednesday night cleared several major long-pending stalled projects worth over Rs 25,000 crore, including the Rs 11,929 crore one for 56 medium transport aircraft by the Tata-Airbus consortium, Rs 2,900 crore for 145 American M-777 ultralight howizers and Rs 3,000 crore for around 200 Russian Kamov light utility helicopters.

The defence acqusitions council, chaired by defence minister Manohar Parrikar, also cleared the acquisition of two Boeing 777-300 (extended range) aircraft from Air India for the dedicated use by President Pranab Mukherjee and PM Narendra Modi as the Desi Air Force One, as was first reported by TOI earlier this week. The two wide-bodied aircraft will now be reconfigured for the VVIPs, which will include a an executive office and bedroom, and then fitted with advanced self-protection suites to jam and defeat hostile incoming missiles and encrypted satellite communication facilities by Boeing.

In terms of sheer money, the biggest proposal to be cleared was the Rs 11,929 crore mega project for the Indian private sector to supply 56 medium transport aircraft to the IAF despite there being only one bidder, the Tata-Airbus consortium, in the fray. As reported earlier, the dominant view in the defence establishment was that the green signal should be given to the Tata-Airbus venture since its technical and commercial bids were submitted in a competitive environment, with the other seven contenders backing out for one reason or the other.

The project, under which the first 16 aircraft are to be bought from the foreign original equipment manufacturer and the rest 40 to be manufactured by the Indian Production Agency (IPA) within eight years, is meant to encourage the Indian private sector to enter into the domestic military aerospace sector. Incidentally, it was the Modi government's first DAC in July — then headed by Arun Jaitley - which revived the Avro replacement project after it was put on hold by the UPA-II regime last year due to strong opposition from the powerful PSU lobby and ministers like Praful Patel, as reported by TOI earlier. The other big takeaway was the long-pending Rs 2,900 crore deal with the US government for 145 ultra-light howitzers, which are to be acquired for the new Army divisions being raised along the border with China.

The direct government-to-government deal had been stuck due to high costs and a non-compliant offsets proposal offered by artillery manufacturer BAE Systems. The Army, however, has been for long been demanding 155mm/39-calibre light-weight howitzers, with a strike range over 25-km range. Such howitzers can be swiftly air-lifted to "threatened high-altitude areas" along the 4,057-km Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China, which has the military infrastructure in place to swiftly mobilize troops and equipment to outnumber Indian forces by 3:1 there.

The DAC also cleared the initial construction planning process for the country's second aircraft carrier, the 65,000-tonne INS Vishal, as well as the Rs 2,700 crore acqusition of nine systems of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile for three Talwar-class stealth frigates and three Delhi-class destroyers. Developed jointly by India and Russia, the missile flies at Mach 2.8 or almost three times the speed of sound. The Army and Navy already have the BrahMos missiles, which are also to be soon tested from a Sukhoi-30MKI fighter.

Defence ministry clears pending stalled projects worth Rs 25,000 crore - The Times of India

 

[Echo_419]

If the forces and the govt act smart, this can be a real steal. The IAF's An-32s will need to be replaced in the near future, and the C-295 outclasses them in every parameter. There are 105 An-32s in active service. The C-295 can be a good replacement for both Avros and An-32s, which will bring more commonality, and lower procurement costs. (And much lower operational and fuel costs.)

IMO, the entire fixed wing light transport class of aircrafts in all the military and paramilitary forces should be borne by these C-295s. Only the medium weight transports seem to be stuck in limbo, with the MRTA or MTA or whatever is envisioned. If that doesn't come to fruition, a similar make in India deal for C-130J-30 (non spec force version) should be thought about.

Agreed also after making so many planes in India TATA can develop one of their own too

 

[Prajapati]

If the forces and the govt act smart, this can be a real steal. The IAF's An-32s will need to be replaced in the near future, and the C-295 outclasses them in every parameter. There are 105 An-32s in active service. The C-295 can be a good replacement for both Avros and An-32s, which will bring more commonality, and lower procurement costs. (And much lower operational and fuel costs.)

IMO, the entire fixed wing light transport class of aircrafts in all the military and paramilitary forces should be borne by these C-295s. Only the medium weight transports seem to be stuck in limbo, with the MRTA or MTA or whatever is envisioned. If that doesn't come to fruition, a similar make in India deal for C-130J-30 (non spec force version) should be thought about.

Maybe this time MTA might actually move forward during Modi's visit to Russia.

An-32 are being given a life upgrade that will extend their life for the next 15-20 years. Which means C-295 has enough time to replace them all so that is inevitable.

No chance of making C-130 in India.

 

[The Great One]

If the forces and the govt act smart, this can be a real steal. The IAF's An-32s will need to be replaced in the near future, and the C-295 outclasses them in every parameter. There are 105 An-32s in active service. The C-295 can be a good replacement for both Avros and An-32s, which will bring more commonality, and lower procurement costs. (And much lower operational and fuel costs.)

IMO, the entire fixed wing light transport class of aircrafts in all the military and paramilitary forces should be borne by these C-295s. Only the medium weight transports seem to be stuck in limbo, with the MRTA or MTA or whatever is envisioned. If that doesn't come to fruition, a similar make in India deal for C-130J-30 (non spec force version) should be thought about.

An 32 do not need to be replaced until 2030's after the upgrades. And no, C-295 do not outclass them in every department. The An-32 is a re-engined An-26 designed specifically for India's requirements of proper Hot and High performance. Its engines have double the power of An-26. C-295 is even less powerful than the original An-26. An-32 is an important link in transport chain to Siachen. Certain roles C-295 would be better for sure, but not in others. C-295 lost out to C-27J in Peru because of its poor high alt. performance. The Peruvians had first bought An-26 which suffered several high alt. accidents and then got the An-32 and after a new competition chose C-27J even though it was much more costlier than 295 (almost double) just because of superior high altitude performance. I believe one of their own reports said that the 295 was more efficient for jungle ops.

At any rate, the replacement for An-32 is the MRTA/Il-214 or any other 20-ton class (C-130, KC-390). Even Antonov's replacement for An-32 is gonna be An-178 - a short legged 20 ton class.

 

[ayesha.a]

Don't the C295 and An-32 have different transport capability?

C-295 can carry only 9 tons.

Correct, and An-32 can only carry 7.5 tonnes. That is why I said that the C-295 outclasses the An-32 in all performance parameters. Number of troops, amount of cargo, fuel efficiency...

The IAF's transport capability will increase by leaps and bounds in future.

 

[tsinga]

Correct, and An-32 can only carry 7.5 tonnes. That is why I said that the C-295 outclasses the An-32 in all performance parameters. Number of troops, amount of cargo, fuel efficiency...

The IAF's transport capability will increase by leaps and bounds in future.

I see.
So C-295 carried more payload than either the Avro or the An-32.

You're right then. It can replace both easily.

Though another question - Isn't a C-295 an overkill as a replacement for the Avro?

 

[ayesha.a]

Maybe this time MTA might actually move forward during Modi's visit to Russia.

I don't think that the stalling of MTA is due to govt lethargy alone. It might have something to do with HAL's inability to contribute meaningfully, which is not something Modi can do anything about in Russia.

No chance of making C-130 in India.

Why not? Tata is already making cabin parts, and IIRC BEL is supplying certain subsystems for the C-130. If we order in sufficient numbers, I don't see why LM wouldn't want to open a production line for the airframe in India. It's not exactly cutting edge tech, the bird has been around for half a century. (None of the sensitive electronics, which require CISMOA et al would be produced in India, of course.)

If the pvt industry can make C-130s, that will be a really big jump in capability for our aerospace sector.

I see.
So C-295 carried more payload than either the Avro or the An-32.

You're right then. It can replace both easily.

Though another question - Isn't a C-295 an overkill as a replacement for the Avro?

Well apparently the IAF has selected it to replace Avro anyway, so I don't see why they shouldn't replace the An-32s as well. (Unless it has really serious performance shortfalls in high airbases, as one poster above says.) The money saved by operating only one type should itself pay off for replacing the Avros with C-295s.

The IAF's ambitions are growing, they no longer want an Avro class aircraft. C-295, C-130 class (whichever) and C-17s are what they intend to have in future.

 

[saurav]

One good thing from C-295 deal will be a new aerospace company finally delivering aircraft from its production line. Maybe few years later this company may be used to churn out Fighter planes . A competitor for HAL was always needed. Its good that we are finally getting one.

 

[Prajapati]

I don't think that the stalling of MTA is due to govt lethargy alone. It might have something to do with HAL's inability to contribute meaningfully, which is not something Modi can do anything about in Russia.

It had more to do with Russian reluctance to share tech. and to allow India to develop a cost effective Large aircraft. HAL just din't care.

Why not? Tata is already making cabin parts, and IIRC BEL is supplying certain subsystems for the C-130. If we order in sufficient numbers, I don't see why LM wouldn't want to open a production line for the airframe in India. It's not exactly cutting edge tech, the bird has been around for half a century. (None of the sensitive electronics, which require CISMOA et al would be produced in India, of course.)

If the pvt industry can make C-130s, that will be a really big jump in capability for our aerospace sector.

US has laws that is put in place to prevent ToT and to ensure such Tech. and jobs do not go out of the US.

Its one thing making door and bomb bays, its another thing making the entire aircraft.

 

[RISING SUN]

This provides sufficient clarity to the whole purchase. Excellent deal by the MoD and full marks to Parrikar and Modi.

Better still is the timing of the deal, just before the China visit.

Now we can calculate the price of each equipment,

1. 197 LUH (Ka 226T) for Rs. 3,000 Crore, i.e Only 2.45 Million $ PER Helicopter (All to be made in India with ToT)

2. Total 6 Brahmos Pack. Each pack containing 8 Missiles i.e total of 72 Brahmos, which means each Missile cost 6 Million $

3. Total of 56 C-295 Transport Aircraft for Rs. 11,929 Crore, i.e. 34.36 Million $ per Aircraft

4. Total 145 M-777 to be made in India for the New Strike Force raised for China, for Rs. 2,900 Crore i.e Each Gun cost 3.23 Million $

We have ordered 9 batteries of Bramhos missiles for six boats(3 Talwar class frigates and 3 Delhi class destroyers). Total numbers of missiles is unusually high at 89 missiles in total. That means some boats might have more than 8 standard missile loads. Thank you.

 

[Prajapati]

We have ordered 9 batteries of Bramhos missiles for six boats(3 Talwar class frigates and 3 Delhi class destroyers). Total numbers of missiles is unusually high at 89 missiles in total. That means some boats might have more than 8 standard missile loads. Thank you.

89 is possible, it is possible that extra missiles are supplied for training and firing exercises.

This would mean Each Brahmos cost around 4.9 million $.

 

[GURU DUTT]

every thing is OK but why splurge on something like Boieng 777 "desi air force one"they can go for something smaller and cheaper like Airbus 320- 340

 

[Prajapati]

every thing is OK but why splurge on something like Boieng 777 "desi air force one"they can go for something smaller and cheaper like Airbus 320- 340

They do not come with protections suite that goes into Air Force one.

 

[GURU DUTT]

They do not come with protections suite that goes into Air Force one.

but we can retro fit there is enof space and power to integrate those goodies on Airbus platform