Domestic & Social Crimes [Mob/ Vigilante justice] Thread

[Kompromat]

Hear, Hear ! This is by far the best advice that can be given to all religious bigots whatever religion they belong to. If a lot more people thought like this, the world would certainly be a better place.

As long as no one offends another Religion its applicable but not the whole time & it is a reality accept it or not.

 

[qsaark]

Hear, Hear ! This is by far the best advice that can be given to all religious bigots whatever religion they belong to. If a lot more people thought like this, the world would certainly be a better place.

No, if lot more people start thinking like this, the world would certainly become a jungle in which people would live their lives following their psyche or the animal instinct.

 

[Kompromat]

^^ Thats another way of Looking at the Matter.

 

[Bang Galore]

No, if lot more people start thinking like this, the world would certainly become a jungle in which people would live their lives following their psyche or the animal instinct.

Thinking like what? I actually had to go back and read AgNoStIc MuSliM's comments again considering the flak I'm taking for agreeing with him. The first time I agree completely with something he said and it get me into trouble with you guys.

Actually I disagree completely with your jungle remark. Thoughts like the ones Agnostic Muslim expressed are what separates us from the animals in the jungle. The ability to disagree with someone and not become disagreeable oneself is a product of civilisation. Animals care for no such niceties. What use our superior intelligence if we cannot distinguish ourselves from them?

which, by the ijmaa (consensus) of all the Muslim sects is incorrect and wrong.

Without debating the merits of the matter and I do not intend to do so, I find the reliance on "consensus" by a man of science such as yourself more than a bit amusing. If consensus = truth, then we might actually still be believing that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved round the earth. Almost all major scientific discoveries would probably have never happened if everyone went by "consensus" prevailing at the time.

 

[v9s]

personally you can call me racist when it comes to Ahmedis.

I am in great favour of co-existince with all other religions. I don't mind if there are 5000 churches, 5000 temples and 5000 other places of worship in Pakistan but i would mind if there are 5000 Ahmedi's so-called mosques in Pakistan.

That is because Hinduism is a religion that is far far away from us. Chrisitianism is another religion that is not like us. Jewish are a different society and so are other like Zorastrinism. But when it come sto Ahmedis................. They are the ones who destroyed our own religion. They tried to corrupt our religion and i really feel sorry for them but at the same time would not allow them any kind of activities in Islamic republic of Pakistan. There is a tiny line between Muslims and Ahmedis and that line decides your whole faith. It decides whether you believe in the Last Prophet (PBUH) or you the fake prophets coming after him. I can write long article on it so i am stopping here.

Please Indians do us a favour please. Take all Ahmedis in your country and i am willing to pay you

That is a very bigoted view.

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

 

[Kompromat]

Thinking like what? I actually had to go back and read AgNoStIc MuSliM's comments again considering the flak I'm taking for agreeing with him. The first time I agree completely with something he said and it get me into trouble with you guys.

Actually I disagree completely with your jungle remark. Thoughts like the ones Agnostic Muslim expressed are what separates us from the animals in the jungle. The ability to disagree with someone and not become disagreeable oneself is a product of civilisation. Animals care for no such niceties. What use our superior intelligence if we cannot distinguish ourselves from them?



Without debating the merits of the matter and I do not intend to do so, I find the reliance on "consensus" by a man of science such as yourself more than a bit amusing. If consensus = truth, then we might actually still be believing that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved round the earth. Almost all major scientific discoveries would probably have never happened if everyone went by "consensus" prevailing at the time.

Consensus = Ijm'a & you have misunderstood the whole thing.

Ijm'a means when all Muslim Groups agree on one point of view.

 

[kugga]

Consensus is not always true that's why democracy is not the only solution to world's problems and neither secularism.....


Everyone has its own solutions India thinks secularism is best so they applied it there... but we don't believe in that so we want a Muslim to lead us not a non-muslim because we think non-muslims cannot understand pschology of muslims (like many on this forum).......

you can agree or disagree with a theory but you cannot prove it right or wrong....

and one more thing truth does not need to be proved

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There are many people in all Muslim sects that declare each other kaffir but they all agree that Qadianis are not Muslims. Nobody from these sects has declared themselves as prophet and messiah as Mirza Ghulam Qadiani has done. Even the Ismailis that have deviated from mainstream Islam have never broken the cardinal rule on finality of prophethood (Khatmay-Nabuwat).

Then these sects can agree that they are not Muslims, but the State is responsible for ensuring that all people are treated equally and are free to practice their faith as they please - that includes, or should include, Ahmadi's.

If they wish to call themselves Muslims, and someone other than Mohammed a prophet, then that is between them and Allah, and not the State's business.

You can teach your children that they follow a false path, but also teach your children that they have a right to 'think and believe' what they wish and their right to follow whichever prophet they believe and call themselves what they want should be respected, even as you disagree with their beliefs.

This kind of intolerance and insecurity complex over ones own faith (what else is it if you don't even have faith in the strength of your beliefs winning in open contest against those of the Ahmadi's?) is at the root of many issues in Pakistan.

 

[TruthSeeker]

something happens to a minority it becomes a big issue because they are minorities.. By having said that i am not denying that mistreatment with minorities does not exist but what i am worried about is that Why Minorities and mormal Pakistanis are treated differently and why normal Pakistanis do not get well deserved publicity ?

Grasshopper, Sir!

Are you not the one who has passionately raised the issue of "Islamophobia" in the West? Is not this the same motivation that causes a hew and cry among Ahmedis, Christians, Hindus, Bahai's, etc. in Pakistan? A cry to be treated with respect and equality? Are you not a minority in your land? I am surprised at your lack of sympathy in the case of this Ahmedi family. As you should realize, prejudice and intolerance of others based on race, religion, sex, etc., needs to be opposed at all times if it is ever to be diminished or, praise Allah, eradicated.

 

[pak-yes]

^^Minorities should be protected at all costs as long as they don't hurt the sentiments of the majority.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As i said before i am a very peace loving person and ready to live with all other religions in fact i love multi religion socities. But if you really know the foundations of Ahmedis religion i am sure its activities will not acceptable to you also. The problem is apparently they are 99% like us but their foundations clashes with the Muslims. They have similar mosques, same quran, similar point of view of God. That the non-Muslims cannot really differ between us and them.

So far you have not offered a single example of an Ahmadi activity that is detrimental to society, - such as - 'open discrimination against another community on the basis of their beliefs', 'intimidation and violence against another community because of their beliefs'. 'intolerance towards those preaching another faith' etc.

Guess which community in Pakistan people guilty of those crimes primarily belong to?

Thats what my problem is......... there are so many "Ignorents" in Pakistan who cannot understand the difference between Qadiyanis and us and if they are not educated properly many of them will start following their fath.

1. So what if they start following the Ahmadi faith?

2. Last I checked, the Ahmadis were outnumbered significantly by 'conventional Muslim sects' in Pakistan. Are you going to argue that the state of the 'traditional Muslim sects' is so bad that they cannot compete in proselytizing, both on the basis of their ideas and on the basis of resources, with an extremely small community of Ahmadi's?

We are Islamic republic of Pakistan that also provides equal rights to non-Muslims to live in but anything against Islam cannot be acceptable in this country.

How are they against Islam? Because you do not think they are Muslim? The what of Hindu's, Parsi's, the Kalash people etc? Islam provides for 'no compulsion in faith' and equal treatment for all. Any way you look at it Islam protects the Ahmadis - either as a Muslim sect, or as a non-Muslim minority. An Islamic State cannot openly discriminate against them, and that is unfortunately exactly what the current laws in Pakistan do.

The activities of Ahmedis are against Islam and whoever "ignorent" listens to them get brain-washed. I have lived with Ahmedis (my neighbours in Pakistan). I know a lot of Ahmedis in London and trust me they try to damage the image of Islam wherever they get chance by preaching their corrupted religion. They are most welcome to live in Pakistan as long as they don't preach their religion

Again, one could argue that the activities of anyone who preaches a religion other than Islam are 'against Islam'. By that yardstick you would have to discriminate against every community not considered 'Islamic'.

Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Parsi etc. proselytizers don't exactly spread their faith by saying' Islam is a wonderful religion and the best of all faiths' - of course they push their own faith, and will be critical of other faiths and their failings when talking on the subject, just as conversations with some Shia and Sunni folk can result in them attacking the other sect - the Ahmadi's are no different.

I said before i am little racist only for this issue and that too is for the betterment of Muslims living in Pakistan

My last post here

You are expressing prejudice against an entire community on this issue, without any cause, and prejudice is not acceptable.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^Minorities should be protected at all costs as long as they don't hurt the sentiments of the majority.

So one day the Sunni in Pakistan could argue that no Shia can call themselves Muslim because 'Sunni are the majority in Pakistan and a 'consensus' of Sunni ulema have determined the Shia are not Muslim and it 'hurts their sentiments' to see the Shia practice and preach their faith freely and call themselves Muslims.

What nonsense.

The majority should grow a thicker skin and stop acting like children in a schoolyard whose 'sentiments get offended' because some other kid said something.

Muslims who think the above need to end this infantile behavior and grow up.

 

[Meesna]

^^Minorities should be protected at all costs as long as they don't hurt the sentiments of the majority.

Is it OK to ban minarets or hijab in west or put even more restrictions on Muslims as it hurts the sentiments there? Your logic seems to be supporting such actions.

Human rights can't be violated under pretext of hurt sentiments.

 

[Meesna]

Pakistan's heartland Punjab province is an extremist "bomb" ready to explode, the region's highest official has warned, with the recent targeting of minority groups seen by some as evidence of jihadists' grip on the area.

The provincial governor accused the regional government, led by former prime minister Nawaz Sharif's party, of tolerating or even supporting extremists, who are said to operate openly in Punjab free from the military operations waged against Taliban guerrillas in the area bordering Afghanistan.

"The Sharifs are creating a potential bomb here in Punjab," said Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab, who was appointed by the national government. "These [militant] groups are armed and dangerous. There is no way you can accommodate these people. There has to be zero tolerance."

...

Sheikh Waqas Akram, an opposition member of parliament from Jhang, which is the headquarters of Sipah-e-Sahaba, likened the situation in Punjab to the Swat valley, where official inaction allowed the Taliban to take over in 2008. "There can be 10 Swats in Punjab, if you don't check them [extremists]," said Akram.

...

Over the last year the affluent Ahmedi community in Faisalabad has been rocked by a campaign of violence and intimidation, which intensified in recent weeks. Ahmedi are classified as non-Muslims under Pakistani law, for believing that Muhammad was not the final prophet.

Police arrested four suspects last month. Three days later, on 1 April, three members of an Ahmedi family were shot dead as they returned from work. Their car was sprayed with bullets, in what police believe was a "very professional" hit and possible revenge for the arrests.

"The four people in jail are in Jamaat-ud-Dawa," said senior Faisalabad police officer Abid Hussain. "They told us that they got a decree from a maulvi (priest) in their group that says that robbing, kidnapping and killing Ahmedis is allowed and would be rewarded in heaven."

Pakistan's Punjab region on knife-edge as extremists take hold, says governor | World news | The Guardian

 

[T-Faz]

The ill that has plagued Pakistan is the mindset of the such people who condone violence against minorities based upon their differences in religion. So what if someone wishes to follow a different religion, as long as they are respectable and follow the land of the law, there should not be a problem.

Ahmadies from what I gather have helped Pakistan in many ways, never causing it any harm so why go and accuse them of something that even Islam is against. If they do not believe in khatme Nabuwat then that is between God and them.

You people cry foul when western countries do something that conflicts with your view. No wonder we suffer so much, when you do wrong you suffer as a consequence.

Minorities in Pakistan love Pakistan and are ever present to make it succeed, islamists on the other hand hate minorities and caused nothing but destruction of Pakistan.

You know the first person to raise the issue of Palestine at UN assembly was an ahmadi, Sir Zafarullah khan, a great Pakistani and a great man. When has any member of jamaat e islami or any other so called religious leader done anything for the cause of fellow humans, Muslims or Pakistani. They are illeterates spreading the false meaning of a religion through their oil funded money.

I have no clue why people can act like this, put yourself in such a place and then see how it feels, may god have mercy on your souls.