Do you believe in god ?

[justanobserver]

This thread is now going to take the "My religion is most scientific" course....

Religions are man-made, books are written by man.

This is our place in the universe:

That tiny blue dot is Earth....

 

[aviator]

I was referred by a muslim friend of mine to read about islam because I have lots of curiosity about universe and its origin, but there were few things I didnt find convincing, so can anyone tell me if I misunderstood something. I was reading through this site which seems to be a muslim site.

God Allah - What is The Origin of God?

Q) My first question to which I was looking for answers was that if everything needs to have an origin, if simplest life forms like amoeba and bacteria can’t start on their own then how can there be super powerful, super intelligent entity called god be there on its own.

Answer as given on site was He always has existed and He never was created, as He is not like His creation, nor similar to it, in any way.

The prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) explained the devil would come to a person and ask them questions about creation; "Who created this or that?" to which the reply would be; "Allah" until he would ask; "Who created Allah?" At this stage the prophet advised us to drop this train of thought. Obviously, God - the real God, must be eternal and not have to be created.

What I didnt like in this answer is that it doesnt gives answer to my question, it just says like ' Hey I am always right, if there is something I can't answer then the question has to be wrong and other guy has to be crazy'. It has become human psychology to believe that they are perfect in every sense, that they are right ones and others are wrong. We are trained from childhood by family and society to feel superior and special and answer given on that site sounds analogous to that. NOM to any religion but I feel thats a flaw in the concept of religions, so is there any correct answer to that. Just like Universe has to have an origin, doesnt it makes sense that god also needs to have an origin.

 

[Dr sim]

And there we have it. This has gone from a post about the belief in GOD to a discussion about Islam.

MODS i humbly request that before this gets out of hand this thread be locked, i would be eternally ingratiated towards you.

Regards,

we r discussing every religion , why cant we discuss Islam?
this is a discussion not an argument and i hope it stays that way

 

[Kinetic]

PROOF OF ALLAH


1. According to Pythagoras “A proof is an impeccable argument, using only the methods of pure logical reasoning, which enables one to infer the validity of an assertion from the pre-established validity of other assertions.” To prove the existence of Allah I shall start with the pre-established valid assertion that within this observable universe there is a group of people who call themselves Muslims and they have a book called the Quran which they claim is the word of Allah.

2. Proof by negation can now be used to prove that what the Muslims claim is correct. This type of proof is widely used in science to reach logical conclusions. We cannot see something behind a wall, hence negation proves that light travels in a straight line. Likewise we cannot see oxygen in a room but by observing that humans are not dying we can prove through negation that oxygen is present in a room. Similarly most of Einstein’s theories use proof by negation. The Quran gives three such proofs :-

(a) Mankind cannot create one chapter like the Quran.

(b) Mankind cannot preserve any other book for hundreds of years in their hearts.

(c) Man cannot find any contradiction within the Quran.

3. As long as man cannot do these things it is scientifically binding for humans to believe that the Quran has been written by a higher being whose name according to the Quran is Allah.

These are very common religion arguments and can be nullified without any difficulty!! But I don't want to because you are presenting Islamic point of view and I don't follow Islam so I don't want to put arguments against it. My thoughts allow me to put forward arguments against my God and religion but yours one may not and you will not like it. Religion!!!

 

[GentlemanObserver]

I know how to prove that God doesn't exist but you said that God exist so I wanted to know the reason behind that, why do you think so, what is the reason, how it is helping us. I have shown many ways existence of God and religion is harming us.

but you said that God exist so I wanted to know the reason behind that

How can i explain something that is based around faith? you either have it or you don't. It's really that simple. There is no empirical formulae i can show you or draw a correlation between the relationship of man and divine spirit.

You either have it, or you don't...

how it is helping us

again since you seek so much perhaps asking on this forum is not what you need to do, perhaps you need to do some searching of your own.

My experience, my faith is "personal" to me, as is my "belief", it will differ from person to person. Hence asking people from proof is bad practice.

If you want proof seek it out yourself, read the texts and make your own decision.

I have shown many ways existence of God and religion is harming us.

Hmm... Lets see

From the battle of Battle of Thermopylae through to the 2nd World war... Who was the instigator? = MAN

Arms and Ammunition , made by = Man

Chemical Weapons, made by = Man

Crime, a result of social political disparity = made by man

Nuclear Warfare = Man

Terrorism = Man

Assassinations = Man

Territorial Conquest = Man

Hmm... Looks like we are doing a pretty good job without god's help... Don't you think?

 

[Dr sim]

PROOF OF ALLAH


1. According to Pythagoras “A proof is an impeccable argument, using only the methods of pure logical reasoning, which enables one to infer the validity of an assertion from the pre-established validity of other assertions.” To prove the existence of Allah I shall start with the pre-established valid assertion that within this observable universe there is a group of people who call themselves Muslims and they have a book called the Quran which they claim is the word of Allah.

2. Proof by negation can now be used to prove that what the Muslims claim is correct. This type of proof is widely used in science to reach logical conclusions. We cannot see something behind a wall, hence negation proves that light travels in a straight line. Likewise we cannot see oxygen in a room but by observing that humans are not dying we can prove through negation that oxygen is present in a room. Similarly most of Einstein’s theories use proof by negation. The Quran gives three such proofs :-

(a) Mankind cannot create one chapter like the Quran.

(b) Mankind cannot preserve any other book for hundreds of years in their hearts.

(c) Man cannot find any contradiction within the Quran.

3. As long as man cannot do these things it is scientifically binding for humans to believe that the Quran has been written by a higher being whose name according to the Quran is Allah.

Till I get a logical answer to this post I would request that the mods keep this thread open

as I mentioned before my friend how can u claim this to be logical when Quran itself was written by Humans.

 

[Rajguru]

I started not believing in god when i began understanding this world more effeciently.
As a kid i had faith in god.
But when i grew up,knew about our history,my faith fainted out.
Instead of using god for a peaceful purpose,people have chosen it as a medium of divide within the society.

So i am totally against the concept of 'god'.

 

[silent hawk]

And there we have it. This has gone from a post about the belief in GOD to a discussion about Islam.

MODS i humbly request that before this gets out of hand this thread be locked, i would be eternally ingratiated towards you.

Regards,

PROOF OF ALLAH


1. According to Pythagoras “A proof is an impeccable argument, using only the methods of pure logical reasoning, which enables one to infer the validity of an assertion from the pre-established validity of other assertions.” To prove the existence of Allah I shall start with the pre-established valid assertion that within this observable universe there is a group of people who call themselves Muslims and they have a book called the Quran which they claim is the word of Allah.

2. Proof by negation can now be used to prove that what the Muslims claim is correct. This type of proof is widely used in science to reach logical conclusions. We cannot see something behind a wall, hence negation proves that light travels in a straight line. Likewise we cannot see oxygen in a room but by observing that humans are not dying we can prove through negation that oxygen is present in a room. Similarly most of Einstein’s theories use proof by negation. The Quran gives three such proofs :-

(a) Mankind cannot create one chapter like the Quran.

(b) Mankind cannot preserve any other book for hundreds of years in their hearts.

(c) Man cannot find any contradiction within the Quran.

3. As long as man cannot do these things it is scientifically binding for humans to believe that the Quran has been written by a higher being whose name according to the Quran is Allah.

I feel that the non-believers have no logical reply to my proof and are hence trying to close this thread.

@Kinetic I still await your reply as well

 

[queerbaits]

one liner? is that all you got? try proving his statement wrong otherwise don't post one liners, and from the looks of it, its obvious you know nothing about Islam and its history.

God sent the message (Quran) to Muhammad (pbuh) through the Angel Gabriel and from there Muhammad (pbuh) recited the Quran (chapter by chapter) to his companions who would wrote it down and then compiled it into Quran.

same is said about gita and bible.They both claim to be penned by god.if thats true then god has multiple personalities for sure cos these texts sure got lot of contradictions

 

[Kinetic]

And there we have it. This has gone from a post about the belief in GOD to a discussion about Islam.

MODS i humbly request that before this gets out of hand this thread be locked, i would be eternally ingratiated towards you.

Regards,

Ask those who are bringing Islam, not to bring any specific religion.

 

[Dr sim]

How can i explain something that is based around faith? you either have it or you don't. It's really that simple. There is no empirical formulae i can show you or draw a correlation between the relationship of man and divine spirit.

You either have it, or you don't...


again since you seek so much perhaps asking on this forum is not what you need to do, perhaps you need to do some searching of your own.

My experience, my faith is "personal" to me, as is my "belief", it will differ from person to person. Hence asking people from proof is bad practice.

If you want proof seek it out yourself, read the texts and make your own decision.




Hmm... Lets see

From the battle of Battle of Thermopylae through to the 2nd World war... Who was the instigator? = MAN

Arms and Ammunition , made by = Man

Chemical Weapons, made by = Man

Crime, a result of social political disparity = made by man

Nuclear Warfare = Man

Terrorism = Man

Assassinations = Man

Territorial Conquest = Man

GOD = MAN

RELIGION = MAN

Hmm... Looks like we are doing a pretty good job without god's help... Don't you think?

And we both know a lot of not so good things have happened in the name of both

 

[sameer-abc]

people can say he was always there

Any evidence against this tall claim?

 

[aviator]

This thread is now going to take the "My religion is most scientific" course....

Religions are man-made, books are written by man.

This is our place in the universe:

That tiny blue dot is Earth....

Dude are you kidding me. Universe has been observed upto 10^25m and we still dont know how large it is. Earth in Universe is merely like an one of electron in your room.

PS: Anyone here fan of Hyperspaces, String theory and Parallel universes ?

 

[Dr sim]

 

[GentlemanObserver]

And we both know a lot of not so good things have happened in the name of both

And yet the poster i replied to vehemently expressed how all these ills are solely the result of "divine intervention"...