Dear Americans We DON'T hate your "Freedoms".

[Dubious]

By being politically correct what you are trying to do is hide from the real issue, extremism and the ideology stems from the twist that's given to religion and it's teachings. A moderate Muslim learns something totally different from the Koran compared to an extremist. Jihaad is often misused as war on infidels - and the definition you gave only exists in the book and not in real life.

Not hiding! I understand extremism! It is not the way a religion should be thats why they are not called religious but extremist!

What I am trying to do is raise awareness! You gave me a wrong defination and all I did was give you the right 1. If its in the book meaning it is authentic

If its just hearsay then you can question but now adays hearsay also makes breaking news!

Then again not all books may be authentic...Another topic for another thread!

 

[Dubious]

As far as I know a few factions of the Taliban are considered terrorists - you do know that Pakistan / SA recognized the Taliban as AF's Government.

I am not sure what they recognize...The media says this and that they do that and this and the results are neither this nor that!

 

[Dubious]

What did you delete?

 

[Solomon2]

I stopped reading the thread after the word "Dear" in the topic title.

How does one tell when someone is telling the truth rather than a deception? Through his later actions in their context. Show us the love and we'll believe.

 

[illusion8]

What did you delete?

Pretty much all off topic posts on this thread.

 

[Dubious]

You mean all your posts?!

 

[FaujHistorian]

YOU SEE people like you who believe they know everything and no one can SUPPLY them with further information are the cause Pakistan is sinking!

What the heck do you know about me? You just went personal....Heck I know about the queen?! I put UK flag because that is location flag it doesnt signify my nationality!

Well my dear dear dear poster.

you are the one declaring to the PDF that you are residing in UK.

If that's a false flag, I take back my UK specific comments.



Let me reiterate.

We don't want you guys are settled in UK / West to send us constipated conspiracy theories about the world
Nor do we need any more Islamism from any place let alone UK.


What we need is your knowledge in science and tech,

But above all we need you to be good will ambassadors for us to the UK people.

We are not sending you over to spread Islamism
or terrorism
or Burqa-ism

We are sending you over there to learn how and why those countries are doing better than us

So we can copy and emulate their good habits

And thus improve the condition of our poverty stricken masses

Not asking for a sky here.

This is precisely what Chinese and Indian and Korean and Japanese expats are doing for their own nations.


We have enough of local Islam

We have enough of anti-minority propaganda locally.

We do not need any more of it from UK.


Hope you get it this time.


peace to you.

 

[haviZsultan]

You mean all your posts?!

I have seen people do it so often. Its become a survival tactic of trolls from our vicinity.

 

[haviZsultan]

Well my dear dear dear poster.

you are the one declaring to the PDF that you are residing in UK.

If that's a false flag, I take back my UK specific comments.



Let me reiterate.

We don't want you guys are settled in UK / West to send us constipated conspiracy theories about the world
Nor do we need any more Islamism from any place let alone UK.


What we need is your knowledge in science and tech,

But above all we need you to be good will ambassadors for us to the UK people.

We are not sending you over to spread Islamism
or terrorism
or Burqa-ism

We are sending you over there to learn how and why those countries are doing better than us

So we can copy and emulate their good habits

And thus improve the condition of our poverty stricken masses

Not asking for a sky here.

This is precisely what Chinese and Indian and Korean and Japanese expats are doing for their own nations.

We have enough of local Islam

We have enough of anti-minority propaganda locally.

We do not need any more of it from UK.


Hope you get it this time.


peace to you.

There is nothing wrong with living in the UK. Ask @WebMaster and he will tell you the majority of the hits this site gets are from areas away from Pakistan. Overseas Pakistanis have a huge role in this nations development. Furthermore I do not think Talon is any more Islamist than the average member on this site nor have I seen any Islamist tendencies in her. The only Islamist I have seen is Zarvan and those who regularly tend to launch a few volleys at the Hindus but that is the demonization of Hindus from childhood and education system at fault not anything else.

Also I have seen this negative attitude towards overseas Pakistanis and it is a huge crime that you guys are participating in by calling patriotic men and women who go outside to earn something to send back to Pakistan burgers and childish things just because you are jealous of them. Overseas Pakistanis are the backbone of Pakistan. Go ask an economist what remittances are and how they have a huge effect in stabilizing a frail economy.

That being said...

Bombing of civilians or even Talib-bozos of Wazirastan is ONLY happening because we the pathetic Musalmaans of Pakistan have allowed this cesspool of "tribal state" within a "Pakistani state".

The laws of Pakistani state are not being allowed by Waziris to be implemented and enforced in the "tribal state".

This is where we must focus. This is where the cancer is.

Bombing is just a symptom of much larger disease as said it before.

OK if Waziris want to have their own state within a state, fine.

but do not come running to us for support when you don't even want our protection.

It is that simple.

peace

What you said is highly offensive to an entire Pashtun tribe. It is highly unfortunate that Haqqani, Bahawal, Hekmatyar and Gul Bahadur have developed bases in North Waziristan. However it does not mean the Wazeers are traitors. That is insulting an entire tribe for the actions of a few and I could call Americans mass murderers, Muslims suicide bombers and killers and Pakistanis idiots, furthermore my forefathers who migrated too should be terrorists because all migrants decided to label themselves Muhajir and look down on anyone outside this self-imposed identity, other than forming terror group MQM. So lets not go that way. That is just no justification for it and is a manner of thinking that is the cause of further strife and polarization and bloodshed in our society. Do remember we said the same thing about Bengalis before slaughtering them.

In my book Badal I wish to counter these perceptions and explain how those regions have absolutely no standard of living. When you enter its like you entered another nation. Also it has a literacy rate of only 22%. Employment exceeds 50% in each of the agencies. This is not a joke. This is the reality of FATA. Furthermore in this environment when someone comes and offers between 15,000-20,000 rupees (TTP hires fighters) monthly to fight for them who is going to refuse?

It is very easy for people in shiny offices like us to criticize them but what did we ever do for them? Did we try to understand them or just hated them all our lives? Furthermore there was a cultural difference and tribals were and have been fiercely independent but even these ways were breaking down very slowly. The war on terror and the subsequent deterioration of their condition pushed them into the arms of militancy. A lot of militants fighting in TTP are paid fighters as well. I can produce a report on that upon request.

Are you from a minority community? If so I greatly sympathize with your views and understand how you have suffered. Ours has always been an intolerant nation and in wars such as this one emotionalism runs high and particularly Ahmedis, Christians and Hindus are being targetted. It is a crime and others should come forward to protect them. If this is not the case this just seems like an attempt to please the Americans. I am a liberal and have been a humanitarian worker in the past and to be a liberal I do not have to kiss the Americans *** wherever I see it. I have read entire cases where innocents have been framed. War losses of civilians are 20-30% higher than they say. Research a guy named Adnan G El Shakrijumah. He is innocent and they are chasing him like dogs. Personally I do not feel there is any need for a bit of sympathy for the Americans considering just what the hell they are up to. No political organization can operate in North America unless it is led by Tarek Fateh or another person who has no interests of Pakistanis at heart. If you do not believe me ask what happened to the PNA chapter in North America. Particularly during the end of my tenure back there I idolized them and their secular ideals.

The message they are giving is that even that we expressed in 9/11 was a mistake because they turned our home into their colony.

 

[Jungibaaz]

So the 7/7 london bomber terrorists were illiterate, and poor?

ha!

haha!

It looks like you don't know what I'm trying to say.
Yes, the 7/7 attackers weren't illiterate fools (fools nonetheless), but the ideology they adopted originated from illiteracy, war, poverty.

Extremism of this sort can be created anywhere, given the right conditions... it can evolve into terrorism.
I have a few arguments for this, if you'd like to debate, i think it would be interesting, to hear your responses.

Sadly another terror sympathizer in the making.

sadly!

Do NOT class me as a terror sympathizer, I take that as a personal insult.
I don't for a second even condone collateral damage in war, let alone senseless violence that kills only civilians.

 

[Jungibaaz]

A phobia is an UNREASONABLE fear of something. It's unreasonable to fear that Christian extremists will crash an airplane into a skyscraper so they can point to potential followers and say, "Ha-ha, we are powerful." It's not unreasonable to fear Muslim extremists doing that.

Fair point. but again, you folks' paranoia shows.

Why the (I have to control myself here) have I been put in the same boat as Al Qaeda?
I think it's unreasonable and irrational to brand a religion of 1.5 billion for the actions of so very few.

Besides, as I've said before, Islam is not the cause. Even if Christianity were put in Islam's place, given the same conditions we saw in Afghanistan in the 80's and 90's you would see similar results. Islam and the Qur'an have their fair share of violence, but no more and probably less then that of the Old testament for example.

You're trying to get yourself off the hook by making out that other people are just as bad, or some others elsewhere are. You know you can do better but you don't want to, yes?

So you think Islam is to blame right?

Well, what do I expect from someone who would consult the likes Robert Spencer and Pam Geller, phony scholars and liars.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@FaujHistorian

You seem to loathe overseas Pakistanis, such as myself here in the UK.
And I am a patriotic man, I'm not an extremist.

And it's funny you should mention these things, most of what you're saying is found in Pakistan, it's the culture that we've bought along that has done the opposite of adapting to it's environment. The Shariah zones and Burqa stick lout like a sore thumb in British society. That I will agree with you on. However, you must realise, that most of these more extreme British Pakistanis are not of second or third generation born in the UK. You should also know, that these people aren't the majority either as they are made out to be by the media.

It almost seems like you're drawing a line between yourselves (think quite highly of yourselves) and us(the traitors who left and give you a bad name).

It actually saddens me to see this kind of hate towards overseas Pakistanis, despite the fact that we are literally what has kept the economy of Pakistan from total collapse.

We aren't just a bunch of loonies in exclusive communities, there are millions of us, many of us are young professionals with jobs and degrees. You've fallen victim to the same trap as those who categorise us as extremists here in the UK.

 

[gambit]

US NEVER in its history has done something WHICH has not benefited itself!

First...Every country -- including Pakistan -- seeks things that will benefit itself.

Second...But if you want to go there, then whenever we dispatch the USN and assorted US based NGOs to some humanitarian disasters, we seek nothing in return. So if you want to hate US for atrocious actions of the few soldiers in the course of a war, then why not love US for the many more humanitarian actions in the times of need by any country? But the reality is that we do not need your love. We do not even want it. We want you to be fair. Guess that is asking too much.

 

[muse]

First...Every country -- including Pakistan -- seeks things that will benefit itself...

the reality is that we do not need your love. We do not even want it. We want you to be fair. Guess that is asking too much.

What's the beef then? You don't need it, you don't want it? why whine about it?

 

[acid rain]

I have seen people do it so often. Its become a survival tactic of trolls from our vicinity.

Did you see the change in title? I think he deleted it for the sake of the thread opener who was getting irritated with the off topic posts about crusaders and islamists.