Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[letsbefriends]

Hi letsbefriends, no offense, but it's actually the complete opposite of your post.

1. EF and Mig 35 are similar fighters mainly for air superiority with the same advantages like maneuverability..., but the same disadvantages in A2G also, so this combo is more than unlikely.

2. Both fighters are delayed in development and are bad choices if the aim is fast procurment. Mig stated that the production might only begin by 2013, or later, the EF will get the first AESA radar version at the same time, operational versions possibly 2015 only!

3. MoD alrady stated that the deal will go only at a single vendor, so no split anyway.


hey sancho thanks for the update though but i wud also say littlr bit to back myself on mig...if mig 35 is anywhere close to mig 29 k which the navy has ordered it has considerable ground attack capability

2)typhoon is not delayed in development..may be for tranche 3 which will be a complete multirole fighter..check on the no .of orders it has got thru out the world.arguably the best aircraft after the f-22's

3)in splitting the orders we may be able to get quick solution to depleting no. problems nd even if the line of mig 35 cannot be started till 2013 we r only buying 18 off the shelf,rest we have to make ourselves.

i read a article recently which states dat mig willl give us complete tot and aso joint development and production rights in order to sell it to third countries..that will be a great boost to our defence industry..and


the other condenders r all upgraded versions of already existing planes neither f16 or f 18 or gripen or mig 35,may be we can say that rafale and typhoon r a little different and by doing dat we can keep the asmericans and thr end user agreements away so dat in war time we dont have to take permission from them abt whr to use our equipment,,

no offences though neither does urs or my views matters to the eventual decision maker though whatever we buy i m happy unless it is non american.

 

[Vinashi_JagjitSinghArora]

Are you Drunk Buddy?

 

[KEETARP]

Boo
what he actually meant was Single engined jets and Mig-35 have no chance .
I can see what you understood and humorous part of it.

 

[Vinashi_JagjitSinghArora]

Boo
what he actually meant was Single engined jets and Mig-35 have no chance .
I can see what you understood and humorous part of it.

Anyways i dont expect any Indian member to be such dumb to write something like single engined Mig35, we are most intelligent lot and what we write is not B.S

"EgJaKeTaLy" Prateek bro!

From Next time I will be more articulate!! Because, I don't want fellow Indians breaking their heads into two.

 

[SSGPA1]

oiy sab kuch choro, ye batow ke faisla kab ker rtahey hu??

 

[Vinashi_JagjitSinghArora]

oiy sab kuch choro, ye batow ke faisla kab ker rtahey hu??

Arey aap April tak ruk Jao, Itna utawlapan atcha nahi hoto, don't worry we will get the the results in last week of April!! we will make u happy soon!

 

[gurjot]

oiy sab kuch choro, ye batow ke faisla kab ker rtahey hu??
pehla ac aap ko hi dedenge,tension na lo yaar

 

[KS]

I may be wrong.....but i think only rafale nd to a lesser extent the F-18 gives the biggest bang for the buck ..(both in terms of political nd military advantage)

 

[sancho]

hey sancho thanks for the update though but i wud also say littlr bit to back myself on mig...if mig 35 is anywhere close to mig 29 k which the navy has ordered it has considerable ground attack capability

The pics of Mig 35 that I posted recently even shows that the Mig 35 seems to be just a landbased version of the Mig 29K and the Russians don't develop a real new airframe for it. Regarding ground attack capabilities, I think that depends on what you see as considerable.
A payload of around 6t on 9 weapon stations only (one will be occupied by the targeting pod), some stand off missiles, but only 500 Kg KAB bombs cleared so far is very limited imo, especially in comparison with the US fighters, their weapon packs as well as the Rafale and its capabilities in this field.
The Mig 29K was a fast, cheap and partly even forced deal, which will serve the need of IN at the moment, but it is not comparable with carrier fighters like F18Sh, or Rafale. IAF has even more options which can outclass the Mig, so the chances are even lower here.

2)typhoon is not delayed in development..may be for tranche 3 which will be a complete multirole fighter..check on the no .of orders it has got thru out the world.arguably the best aircraft after the f-22's

Actually there are only to export orders for the EF (Austria and Saudi Arabia), with a total number of 89 fighters, all other EFs will only be produced for the consortium members and there is a reason why it was out of several competitions very early, because it is behind in development and wasn't comparable in multi role capabilities yet.
No doubt about that, in A2A it is at the moment the best fighter behind the F22, but we are not looking for another air superiority fighter, we need real multi role fighters.

3)in splitting the orders we may be able to get quick solution to depleting no. problems nd even if the line of mig 35 cannot be started till 2013 we r only buying 18 off the shelf,rest we have to make ourselves.

If they can't even start the production by then, how do you expect us to build it under licence? Only if they start the production line, they can show us how to do it in India too and especially the radar will need some more time to be mature and ready for serial production.

i read a article recently which states dat mig willl give us complete tot and aso joint development and production rights in order to sell it to third countries..that will be a great boost to our defence industry

As I said, there is no development to join anymore and it's export chances are very low. The time of this Mig is over, that's why not even Russia don't buys them, Russian navy buys less Mig 29K the IN, which says much about it don't you think?

 

[sudhir007]

may be it will impact mrca deal and also engine selection on lca

Press Releases - HTTP/1.0
Green Hornet to take flight on Earth Day
The Navy will demonstrate the 'Green Hornet,' an F/A-18 Super Hornet powered by a 50/50 biofuel blend, on Earth Day, April 22, at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md., as part of its Energy Strategy.

Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus has made energy independence a top priority for the Department of the Navy (DoN), and the 'Green Hornet' flight is an important step in the certification and ultimate operational use of biofuels by the Navy and Marine Corps.

The 'Green Hornet' initiative supports Mabus' energy reform targets, which will increase warfighting capability by reducing reliance on fossil fuels from unstable locations and reducing volatility associated with long fuel supply transport lines. The secretary's energy reform targets include:

- By 2016, the Navy will sail a "Great Green Fleet" composed of nuclear ships, surface combatants with hybrid electric power systems using biofuel and aircraft flying on only biofuels.

- By 2020, at least half of the DoN's shore-based energy requirements will come from alternative sources and half of total DoN energy consumption will come from alternative sources.

"[The flight] will demonstrate that our systems can work on biofuel," Mabus said in his remarks at a recent energy forum at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab in Laurel, Md. "After it is successful, and we are absolutely confident that it will be; we will move to expand biofuel testing to our marine gas turbine engines and to the engines of our tactical vehicles."

The biofuel blend to be used in the Super Hornet is derived from the camelina sativa plant, which is a U.S.-grown, renewable, non-food source. The objective of the Navy's biofuel test flight program is to confirm there is no difference in performance between the biofuel blend derived from the camelina plant and standard petroleum-based JP-5. The Navy's ultimate goal is to develop protocols to certify alternative fuels for use in Naval Tactical systems.

The Navy Fuels Lab at NAVAIR Patuxent River, Md., will develop certification requirements for a variety of biofuel sources, including chemical properties, material compatibility, component and propulsion system performance and weapon system performance.

The Defense Energy Support Center, which oversees procurement of biofuel for the Navy, recently awarded a $2.7 million contract to Sustainable Oils of Seattle and Bozeman, Mont. for 40,000 gallons of the camelina-based fuel.

Mabus, as well as energy and environmental leaders from throughout the Department of the Navy, are scheduled be in attendance at the Earth Day flight demonstration. Distinguished visitors will have technical briefs and a tour before the flight demonstration, and will meet the aircraft's pilot immediately after.

"We are a better Navy and a better Marine Corps for innovation; we have led the world in the adoption of new energy strategies in the past," Mabus said at the Naval Energy Forum last year, when he announced his energy reform targets. "This is our legacy."

Green Hornet is an environmental and energy concept that reaches beyond the element of alternative fuels and encompasses efforts ranging from operational and policy through technology research and development. Examples of these efforts range from more energy efficient aircraft refueling policies implemented by the fleet at the Navy's master jet bases, to ongoing research and development efforts by NAVAIR and General Electric to evaluate more fuel efficient engine components. These engine improvements will be designed to reduce the Specific Fuel Consumption (SFC) for the F414 (F/A-18E/F Super Hornet) engine. The Super Hornet is Naval Aviation's largest fuel consumer.

 

[sancho]

may be it will impact mrca deal and also engine selection on lca

That's an interesting point, but will these improvement be available on any GE 414, or only on later improved versions? If on any, the Gripen NG would offer the same advantage, if only on later improved engines, it might come too late for MMRCA or?

 

[sudhir007]

That's an interesting point, but will these improvement be available on any GE 414, or only on later improved versions? If on any, the Gripen NG would offer the same advantage, if only on later improved engines, it might come too late for MMRCA or?

NG is still in testing mode it is not come to the trial how will you are see it will will the mrca contact with that verson which they are offering us it not completed. In the case of mig-35 we can see though our eyes that how it look like in real world. but in the case of gripen her on Government dnt allow them to come at field trail.
and Also how will IAF Analise their performance on the basis of Gripen-D the twin seater which come at field trail

 

[sancho]

NG is still in testing mode it is not come to the trial how will you are see it will will the mrca contact with that verson which they are offering us it not completed. In the case of mig-35 we can see though our eyes that how it look like in real world. but in the case of gripen her on Government dnt also them to come at field trail.
and Also how will IAF Analise their performance on the basis of Gripen-D the twin seater which come at field trail

I also doubt that Gripen NG will be chosen, all I said was, it uses the same engine, so these advantages might be available with it too and not only with the F18SH.

 

[KEETARP]

NG is still in testing mode it is not come to the trial how will you are see it will will the mrca contact with that verson which they are offering us it not completed. In the case of mig-35 we can see though our eyes that how it look like in real world. but in the case of gripen her on Government dnt also them to come at field trail.
and Also how will IAF Analise their performance on the basis of Gripen-D the twin seater which come at field trail

This piece of information will set this thread buzzing for sure.

The Gripen Ds did sensationally in their tests when they were in India recently. The D restarted and took off from Leh with a loadout of 2.6 tonnes which included air to air missiles and underwing fuel tanks. The heat test went off very well in Jaisalmer. It meant placing the aircraft in the sun for a designated period of time, firing her up and flying her at maximum speed at low altitude while checking out all the systems. They also dropped a bomb flying out of Jaisalmer. They also did tanking ops.

And ... no need to hold your breath any longer ... the Demo will be here in mid May and will likely do the Leh trip again and anything that the Indian Air Force requests. They were earlier unable to bring in the Demonstrator because of tasking with the Swedish Air Force which happened at exactly the same time that they were supposed to come to India.

Indian Air Force pilots travel to Sweden in the next few days. They are free to fly the Demo there if they want though they will be firing an AMRAAM off a D platform.

My sources tell me that Indian Air Force pilots loved the jet while it was here, particularly its man-machine interface and the intuitive nature of the setup ...

Please note the following riders to this post:

1. I do not endorse any of the MMRCA competitors.
2. I sincerely hope the Indian Air Force gets the plane it wants and the decision is NOT a political one.
3. I am not aware of the performances of the other competitors though I have NOTHING to suggest that they have done badly.

Vishnu Som
Associate Editor and Senior News Anchor
NDTV

He is one of the respected Defence reporter
He posted this on BR forum also
He is the one who Posted first pictures of LCH on NDTV website and then others followed
He also did -Jet Set go episode on NDTV flying all MRCA aircrafts
He was the one who went to Red Flag Exercise.

here is his profile - NDTV Social: Vishnu Som

I also back this machine look at previous two pages of this forum i have fully supported Gripen .
I saw it during Aero-india show it was my first Crush, same was case with my batch-mates who are in IAF ( sad i got Army but still proud of my job)

 

[Dark Angel]

cheers to vishnu som he is my favourite