Sargodhian_Eagle
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
- Messages
- 292
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
In short tell me that which AC has been chosen by IAF?
Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions
- Thread starter Srirangan
- Start date
- Status
beckham
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,170
- Reaction score
- 2
MANDEEP SINGH
FULL MEMBER
New Recruit
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2009
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 0
Hello everyboby! This is my first post.I am a young guy interested in military and defence so PLZ correct me if i posted anything wrong.
A lot has been written about INDIA'S MMRCA tender but no clear favourite has emerged. All the blogs, sites and people have their own favourites.
What I want to know is that can JAS 39 GRIPEN be the best buy for INDIA ?
Some facts we need to keep in mind:
1.The tender is for 126 aircrafts (+64 if required),
2.It aims at replacing the age old MIG 21,
3.INDIA already has one of the finest air superiority fighters SU 30MKI (PLZ don't include F 22 RAPTOR).
This is what GRIPEN offers:
Following submission of the Saab/Gripen teams bid Eddy de la Motte, Gripen Internationals India Campaign Director said By choosing Gripen IN, India will receive an affordable world class weapons system that will enhance Indias military operational capability and industrial defence base well into the future and in addition, will create independent capabilities right from the word go.
Gripen IN will provide India with a capability that offers complete independence of weapon supply. In addition, Gripen IN comes with the guarantee that we are committed to ensuring that India will have the fighter that the Indian Air Force wants he continued.
We will do this by transferring all necessary technologies to enable Indian industry and the Air Force to build, operate and modify Gripen to meet all indigenous requirements over time. Gripen IN has huge future growth potential for India to harness to the maximum extent, ensuring that this fighter above all others, will stay in the lead as future technology brings yet greater effectiveness and firepower he continued.
Gripen is fully operational today and with the total long-term commitment and support of the Swedish government, I believe that Gripen IN will provide the basis for significant future Indian and international co-operative programmes in future.
Gripen IN is a tailored version of the Gripen NG next generation fighter, which includes increased combat range and endurance, additional weapons carriage capability and increased payload, the more powerful General Electric F414G engine and supercruise capability
Other strengths include a wide choice of integrated weapons and pods; reasonable purchase cost; the fact that it has been designed for exceptional cost of ownership; and the ability operate from roads instead of runways if necessary. With respect to industrial offsets, Saab has made a strong offer, backed by excellent record in countries like South Africa, Hungary, The Czech Republic etc.
As an interesting side note, the JAS-39NGs use of GEs F414G engine could create future commonality with the Kaveri engines successor. The Tejas LCA will use GEs F404 engines until an Indian substitute is ready, and GEs F414 is one of 2 engines under consideration as the basis for the Tejas Mk2s power plant.
Gripen is offering a comprehensive Transfer of Technology (ToT) programme, ensuring access and transfer of technology to enable India to manage all aspects of the life cycle for the Gripen IN.
Gripen also offers a reliable, innovative, cost-effective and life-time logistics support solution sourced from Indian suppliers with support from Saab and its partners. State-of-the-art training facilities that combine synthetic training aids and real fighters, for the training of pilots and maintenance personnel.
THE FACT FILE:
The Saab JAS 39 Gripen (English: Griffin) is a fighter aircraft manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab. Gripen International acts as a prime contracting organisation and is responsible for marketing, selling and supporting the Gripen fighter around the world.
The aircraft is in service with the Swedish Air Force, the Czech Air Force, the Hungarian Air Force and the South African Air Force, and has been ordered by the Royal Thai Air Force. A total of 236 Gripens have been ordered as of 2008.
General characteristics
Price per unit: 40-60 million $
Crew: 1 (2 for JAS 39B/D)
Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 30.0 m² (323 ft²)
Empty weight: 5,700 kg (14,600 lb)
Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 54 kN (12,100 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf)
Wheel track: 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in)
Length (two-seater): 14.8 m (48 ft 5 in)
Performance:
Maximum speed:
At altitude: Mach 2 (2,130 km/h, 1,320 mph)
Combat radius: 800 km (500 mi, 432 nmi)
Ferry range: 3,200 km (2,000 mi) with drop tanks
Service ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)
Wing loading: 336 kg/m² (68.8 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 0.97
Armament
1 × 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon 120 rounds
6 × Rb.74 (AIM-9) or Rb 98 (IRIS-T)
4 × Rb.99 (AIM-120) or MICA
4 x Rb.71 (Skyflash) or Meteor
4 x Rb.75
2 x KEPD.350
4 x GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
4 x rocket pods 13.5 cm rockets
2 x Rbs.15F anti-ship missile
2 x Bk.90 cluster bomb
8 x Mark 82 bombs
1 x ALQ-TLS ECM pod
I feel JAS 39 GRIPEN suits the needs of INDIA
My ouestion:
1.What is your opinion about JAS 39 GRIPEN keeping above req. in mind ?
2.If INDIA increase its req. from 126 planes to 200,we can afford multiple vendors.In such a case what combination do you suggest ?
3.If you have to take decision what will be your choice ?
4.Also it is cheaper as compared to TYPHOON or RAFALE and along with SU30 MKI it can form a good combination?
PLEASE senior members share your opinion......
A lot has been written about INDIA'S MMRCA tender but no clear favourite has emerged. All the blogs, sites and people have their own favourites.
What I want to know is that can JAS 39 GRIPEN be the best buy for INDIA ?
Some facts we need to keep in mind:
1.The tender is for 126 aircrafts (+64 if required),
2.It aims at replacing the age old MIG 21,
3.INDIA already has one of the finest air superiority fighters SU 30MKI (PLZ don't include F 22 RAPTOR).
This is what GRIPEN offers:
Following submission of the Saab/Gripen teams bid Eddy de la Motte, Gripen Internationals India Campaign Director said By choosing Gripen IN, India will receive an affordable world class weapons system that will enhance Indias military operational capability and industrial defence base well into the future and in addition, will create independent capabilities right from the word go.
Gripen IN will provide India with a capability that offers complete independence of weapon supply. In addition, Gripen IN comes with the guarantee that we are committed to ensuring that India will have the fighter that the Indian Air Force wants he continued.
We will do this by transferring all necessary technologies to enable Indian industry and the Air Force to build, operate and modify Gripen to meet all indigenous requirements over time. Gripen IN has huge future growth potential for India to harness to the maximum extent, ensuring that this fighter above all others, will stay in the lead as future technology brings yet greater effectiveness and firepower he continued.
Gripen is fully operational today and with the total long-term commitment and support of the Swedish government, I believe that Gripen IN will provide the basis for significant future Indian and international co-operative programmes in future.
Gripen IN is a tailored version of the Gripen NG next generation fighter, which includes increased combat range and endurance, additional weapons carriage capability and increased payload, the more powerful General Electric F414G engine and supercruise capability
Other strengths include a wide choice of integrated weapons and pods; reasonable purchase cost; the fact that it has been designed for exceptional cost of ownership; and the ability operate from roads instead of runways if necessary. With respect to industrial offsets, Saab has made a strong offer, backed by excellent record in countries like South Africa, Hungary, The Czech Republic etc.
As an interesting side note, the JAS-39NGs use of GEs F414G engine could create future commonality with the Kaveri engines successor. The Tejas LCA will use GEs F404 engines until an Indian substitute is ready, and GEs F414 is one of 2 engines under consideration as the basis for the Tejas Mk2s power plant.
Gripen is offering a comprehensive Transfer of Technology (ToT) programme, ensuring access and transfer of technology to enable India to manage all aspects of the life cycle for the Gripen IN.
Gripen also offers a reliable, innovative, cost-effective and life-time logistics support solution sourced from Indian suppliers with support from Saab and its partners. State-of-the-art training facilities that combine synthetic training aids and real fighters, for the training of pilots and maintenance personnel.
THE FACT FILE:
The Saab JAS 39 Gripen (English: Griffin) is a fighter aircraft manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab. Gripen International acts as a prime contracting organisation and is responsible for marketing, selling and supporting the Gripen fighter around the world.
The aircraft is in service with the Swedish Air Force, the Czech Air Force, the Hungarian Air Force and the South African Air Force, and has been ordered by the Royal Thai Air Force. A total of 236 Gripens have been ordered as of 2008.
General characteristics
Price per unit: 40-60 million $
Crew: 1 (2 for JAS 39B/D)
Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 30.0 m² (323 ft²)
Empty weight: 5,700 kg (14,600 lb)
Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofan
Dry thrust: 54 kN (12,100 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf)
Wheel track: 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in)
Length (two-seater): 14.8 m (48 ft 5 in)
Performance:
Maximum speed:
At altitude: Mach 2 (2,130 km/h, 1,320 mph)
Combat radius: 800 km (500 mi, 432 nmi)
Ferry range: 3,200 km (2,000 mi) with drop tanks
Service ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)
Wing loading: 336 kg/m² (68.8 lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 0.97
Armament
1 × 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon 120 rounds
6 × Rb.74 (AIM-9) or Rb 98 (IRIS-T)
4 × Rb.99 (AIM-120) or MICA
4 x Rb.71 (Skyflash) or Meteor
4 x Rb.75
2 x KEPD.350
4 x GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
4 x rocket pods 13.5 cm rockets
2 x Rbs.15F anti-ship missile
2 x Bk.90 cluster bomb
8 x Mark 82 bombs
1 x ALQ-TLS ECM pod
I feel JAS 39 GRIPEN suits the needs of INDIA
My ouestion:
1.What is your opinion about JAS 39 GRIPEN keeping above req. in mind ?
2.If INDIA increase its req. from 126 planes to 200,we can afford multiple vendors.In such a case what combination do you suggest ?
3.If you have to take decision what will be your choice ?
4.Also it is cheaper as compared to TYPHOON or RAFALE and along with SU30 MKI it can form a good combination?
PLEASE senior members share your opinion......
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
1. It won't be the the best choice for IAF, cause it is way to dependent on other countries (engine, radar, or the main weapons), what would be a problem if we face sanctions again and it could not share any techs with LCA without permission of them.
Also the capabilities it offers, comes close to LCA MK2, what makes the costs not worth it again.
Not to forget that it is still only under development and could face further delays.
Another point is that Sweden has nearly no important political influence that could be useful for India.
2. + 3. It was officially stated that there will be only a single winner, so no need to think about a second vendor.
4. It is cheaper, but mainly in operational costs, in unit costs it could be closer to F18 and Rafale as people thinks. Reports talks about an offer for Dutch AF, of 85 Gripen NG with a system price (including traning, simulators, spares...) of around $70 million dollar each.
duhastmish
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,302
- Reaction score
- -4
The simple answer to your question is : the process to choose the fighter have started and we have no clue yet who will be winner- we are all giving our own 2 cent.s
brahmastra
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 24, 2009
- Messages
- 1,914
- Reaction score
- -1
^^ F-18 or EF.
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
Trials will be held till april next year, then 2, or 3 fighters will be shortlisted, but till then nobody can really say who will win, because too much is unknown.
For example, are a2g capabilities more important than a2a, or is the limited ToT for US fighters enough to let them win, how much shared techs should MMRCA and LCA have and how important are political reasons?
IMO F18SH, Rafale and EF has the best chances, the others have too many disadvantages.
I believe it will be the Euro Fighter....the spin off advantages of being exposed to the latest western fighter tech would be incredible. No other company is offering the amount of tech sharing as EADS except the Russians but Indian will already have access to it thro the Pak-FA program.
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
Actually it is not really clear how much ToT they really offer. The partnership is mainly for production and development of avionics and there was never a statement of full ToT, like Dassault and Mig said.
Sargodhian_Eagle
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
- Messages
- 292
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
duhastmish
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,302
- Reaction score
- -4
India begins to test F-16 fighters in the tender for the program MMRCA
2 сентября 2009 September 2, 2009
/AVIA.RU/ / AVIA.RU /
2 сентября, AVIA.RU - Three F-16 Lockheed Martin, leased from the UAE Air Force, arrived in India for testing and evaluation in the tender to supply 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft program MMRCA, transmits ARMS-TASS with reference to the agency IANS.
Operated by the UAE Air Force F-16 aircraft "block-60" refers to a generation "4 +" and are the most modern in the current version of the F-16.
Aircraft equipped with radar with active phased array with electronic scanning.If she wins, Lockheed Martin intends to deliver an improved version of the Indian Air Force aircraft that were designated as F-16IN "Super Viper, which will be 8000 kg combat load, including high and nuclear munitions.
Fighter aircraft performed a flight from Dubai and is scheduled during the month will be in India for a comprehensive assessment of their flying qualities. The group Lockheed Martin pilots - test company, the U.S. Air Force pilots, engineers and technicians.
As planned, tests will be carried on to develop a common template for all its committees, formed of experts located in Bangalore Test Center's elite aviation ASTE (Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment) HAL company, United Defense Research and Development (DRDO), Ministry of Defense and the Indian Air Force .
Google Translate
2 сентября 2009 September 2, 2009
/AVIA.RU/ / AVIA.RU /
2 сентября, AVIA.RU - Three F-16 Lockheed Martin, leased from the UAE Air Force, arrived in India for testing and evaluation in the tender to supply 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft program MMRCA, transmits ARMS-TASS with reference to the agency IANS.
Operated by the UAE Air Force F-16 aircraft "block-60" refers to a generation "4 +" and are the most modern in the current version of the F-16.
Aircraft equipped with radar with active phased array with electronic scanning.If she wins, Lockheed Martin intends to deliver an improved version of the Indian Air Force aircraft that were designated as F-16IN "Super Viper, which will be 8000 kg combat load, including high and nuclear munitions.
Fighter aircraft performed a flight from Dubai and is scheduled during the month will be in India for a comprehensive assessment of their flying qualities. The group Lockheed Martin pilots - test company, the U.S. Air Force pilots, engineers and technicians.
As planned, tests will be carried on to develop a common template for all its committees, formed of experts located in Bangalore Test Center's elite aviation ASTE (Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment) HAL company, United Defense Research and Development (DRDO), Ministry of Defense and the Indian Air Force .
Google Translate
I cant give you a simple answer, but it will depend upon these facts:
1.What suits most for the requirements of IAF
2.TOT for aircraft, or may be for some other defence equipments/weapons.
3.Political benefit.
sancho
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 13,011
- Reaction score
- 27
- Country
- Location
- Status
Similar threads
- Article
