Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[brahmastra]

As much as MKI, or F18 SH can carry??? Doubtful!

No its true. otherwise there is no need to even test the F-16 if there are already F-18 in the competition.

 

[hack]

No its true. otherwise there is no need to even test the F-16 if there are already F-18 in the competition.

Depends on what you are looking for..the F-16 is primarily a A2A fighter while the F-18 is a bomb truck designed for A2G.

 

[arihant]

I thought Mig-35 would be really good.

 

[beckham]

MRCA IN A NUTSELL


Saab Gripen

Entered service: 1997 (Air Force NG version)

Engine: One Volvo Aero Corporation RM12, producing up to 18,000 lbs of thrust

Max speed: Mach 2.0

Maximum takeoff weight: 28,000 lbs

Radar: Ericsson PS-05/A pulse Doppler radar (AESA radar scheduled for 2012)

Sales Pitch: The Gripen Fighter is designed with room for a spare system to incorporate new sensors, avionics and weapons easily, according to Saab. The Gripen IN, based on the domestically used Gripen NG, is designed to accommodate India's MMRCA needs. It offers increased combat range and endurance, additional weapons capacity and a more powerful General Electric F414G engine.

Dassault Lockheed Rafale

Entered service: 2001 (Air Force)

Engine: Two M88-2E4s, each producing up to 11,250 to 17,000 pounds of thrust

Max speed: Mach 1.8+

Maximum takeoff weight: 54,000 lbs

Radar: Thales RBE2 radar

Sales Pitch: According to Dassault Aviation, this omnirole fighter eliminates the need for seven types of aircraft, including seasoned planes such as the Jaguar, and three variants of the venerable Mirage 2000. A minimal amount of maintenance support required on the ground and France's intention to use it as the country's principal aircraft until 2040—meaning spare parts and training services will remain available—make this plane affordable, maintainable and durable.

Eurofighter Typhoon

Entered service: 2003 (Germany)

Engine: Two Eurojet EJ200s, each producing up to 20,000 lbs of thrust

Max speed: Mach 2.0

Maximum takeoff weight: 50,000 lbs

Radar: CAPTOR (ECR 90) pulse Doppler radar

Sales Pitch: The Eurofighter Typhoon is known for its agility in the combat zone and comes with a multirole weapon system. Currently the primary aircraft in six nations' air forces— the U.K., Germany, Italy, Spain, Austria and Saudi Arabia—this Typhoon offers a "consistently high level of operational readiness, rapid turn-around times and easy deployment," according to Eurofighter. It now employs a Doppler radar, and the aircraft successfully tested an AESA CAPTOR radar (CAESAR) in 2007.

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

Entered service: 1998 (Navy)

Engine: Two F414-GE400s, each producing up to 22,000 lbs of thrust

Max speed: Mach 1.8

Maximum takeoff weight: 66,000 lbs

Radar: AN/APG-79 AESA radar

Sales Pitch: According to Boeing, the Super Hornet's advanced capabilities and versatility mean it can be flown on a variety of missions. This strike fighter's control system gives it heightened maneuverability, and Boeing asserts that the plane's internal design makes it easy and affordable to upgrade.

Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper

Entered service: N/A

Engine:/B] One GE F110-132A, producing up to 32,000 lbs of thrust

Max speed: Mach 2.0 (Fighting Falcon)

Maximum takeoff weight:/B] 48,000 lbs (Fighting Falcon)

Radar: Northrop Grumman APG-80 AESA radar

Sales Pitch: Like the Gripen, the Super Viper, a modified version of the F-16 Fighting Falcon, can be built specifically to meet India's requirements. Not only does the Super Viper have a "robust upgrade capacity," according to Lockheed Martin, it also boasts the newest APG-80 AESA radar and the highest-thrust engine. Its APG-80 radar is designed with an all-weather precision targeting sensor for enhanced situational awareness and threat detection, while the good thrust-to-weight ratio makes it an agile aircraft.

Mikoyan MiG-35

Introduced to public: 2005

Engine: Two RD-33MKBs, producing up to 19,000 lbs of thrust

Max speed: Mach 2.5

Maximum takeoff weight: 65,500 lbs

Radar: Zhuk-AM AESA radar

Sales Pitch: With the MiG-35, you get the "possibility of advanced Russian and foreign origin weapons" and "increased combat survivability," according to the Russian Aircraft Corporation. The plane supplements its AESA radar with an optical locator system that uses photo analysis to identify targets without producing telltale emissions.

 

[Ruag]

The Eurofighter Typhoons are the most advanced fighter jets in service after F-22 Raptors. Therefore, India must definitely select them even though they are considerably more expensive compared to others. Besides, through economies of scale, their price tag can be bought down.

A typhoon armed with MBDA Meteor would make the IAF the major air force in Asia.

 

[BRAHMOS]

The Eurofighter Typhoons are the most advanced fighter jets in service after F-22 Raptors. Therefore, India must definitely select them even though they are considerably more expensive compared to others. Besides, through economies of scale, their price tag can be bought down.

A typhoon armed with MBDA Meteor would make the IAF the major air force in Asia.

Yes indeed, typhoon should be the one which would be best suitable for IAF

 

[bones20]

Nice post Beckham!

Our main requirements are:
1. AESA (rules out rafael)
2. Dual engine (rules our gripen, F-16)
3. Low cost of ownership
4. Strike/ground fighter

So we narrow down to:
1. MIG 35 : Cons: late delivery, immature AESA.
2. F/A 18: Cons: None
3. EF: Cons: Expensive

F/A 18 is the one.

 

[brahmastra]

Nice post Beckham!

Our main requirements are:
1. AESA (rules out rafael)
2. Dual engine (rules our gripen, F-16)
3. Low cost of ownership
4. Strike/ground fighter

So we narrow down to:
1. MIG 35 : Cons: late delivery, immature AESA.
2. F/A 18: Cons: None
3. EF: Cons: Expensive

F/A 18 is the one.

Yes but we can stick to only initial order of ~126 planes then we can 'aford' EF. As HAL Tejas and FGFA are already in pipeline. and still more than 100 Su-30 MKI will join IAF.

So, according to me, either F-18 or EF will win the MRCA.

Both are good for ground attack.

 

[sancho]

Nice post Beckham!

The Eurofighter Typhoons are the most advanced fighter jets in service after F-22 Raptors. Therefore, India must definitely select them even though they are considerably more expensive compared to others. Besides, through economies of scale, their price tag can be bought down.

A typhoon armed with MBDA Meteor would make the IAF the major air force in Asia.

Yes it is one of the most advanced fighter, but you are totally missing out that we already have a comparable air superiority fighter with the MKI and that we are developing a comparable fighter to F22.
That is the main problem for EF, IAF don't really need it!
The costs are a problem too, but can be countered with offset, commonality to LCA, or the benefit of such a partnership. The EF consortium knows quiet well that their chances to win are small if we just compare the aircrafts, because the A2G capabilities are still only under development (the pics you added shows weapon tests). That's why they offer so much help for LCA and other benefits that are not directly related to the fighter. They have to counter the disadvantages with other points in their favour, but I doubt that will be enough.
It has too many funding problems at the moment, AESA comes only by 2013 and all capabilities are expected by 2016. IAF can't afford more delays in replacing the old fighters, or we risk more lives of our pilots.
MMRCA winner must be clearly a fighter that will be a good addition to MKI and later FGFA, not another fighter in the same role.

Nice post Beckham!
Our main requirements are:
1. AESA (rules out rafael)
2. Dual engine (rules our gripen, F-16)
3. Low cost of ownership
4. Strike/ground fighter

So we narrow down to:
1. MIG 35 : Cons: late delivery, immature AESA.
2. F/A 18: Cons: None
3. EF: Cons: Expensive

F/A 18 is the one.

1. Rafale is one of the few aircrafts which have AESA ready!
2. Dual engine is not a requirment, actually single engine were prefered at the beginning!
4. I think so too, but that would rule out Mig 35 and EF
F18 no cons? What about less ToT, restrictions and controls, not sanction prove, high operational costs?

F18 is a frontrunner no doubt, but it won't be as easy as you think.

 

[Brahm0s]

Friends can anyone tell me why would india waste over 10 to 12 billion dollars TO SATISFY PAKISTAN??? if india buys F-16IN than dont u think its advantage PAKISTAN??? F-16IN is new wine in old bottle. So do you think india sick head to buy it? Why pakistanis kept saying india will buy F-16IN? Lol but now even some indians here saying india would buy F-16IN. i think its nonsence to think about it lol. JSF-35? Nah. india dont need to buy old bird F-16IN. We can get F-35 anyway in future. America throwing F-16 and F-18 and will induct F-35. U want india to induct it by that time? Lol funny. Tough fight is between Rafael and typhoon. Both are my favoright jet fighters. i dont care which one india pick up. Both are lethel and deadly. Cheers.

 

[notting hill]

can anyone please tell me how the info i last posted suddenly got disappeared.. and i guess BRAHMOS had to retype his entire para again.. are we playing a game of hide and seek here brahmOs..

 

[Brahm0s]

can anyone please tell me how the info i last posted suddenly got disappeared.. and i guess BRAHMOS had to retype his entire para again.. are we playing a game of hide and seek here brahmOs..

Friend i dont know how your last info suddenly got dissapeared. i my self was on banned members list. So i had no idea about it. May be webmaster deleted it? Or may be it got dissapeard due to error. i think webmaster knows it or anyone who controlls this web site.

 

[duhastmish]

Surprise !! surprise !!


http://74.125.153.132/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.lenta.ru/news/2009/09/04/rafale/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlenta.ru%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG&rurl=translate.google.co.in&usg=ALkJrhgc6uzLUTodWQiqP4Ryv2UeoNLRNQ


Brazil called the Rafale favorite tender to supply fighter

The French proposal on the transfer of Brazilian production technologies Rafale fighter gives her "an exceptional comparative advantage" in the tender of the Air Forces of Brazil. This, according to Agence France-Presse, told reporters the president of the Latin American state Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.

In an exclusive interview with interviewee said that "the country level, Brazil can not buy the products of another state without the transfer of technology." However, as noted by Da Silva, France has demonstrated that it is the most suitable partner in this plan, which gives Paris an advantage in the competition.

Agence France-Presse notes that on September 6, French President Nicolas Sarkozy is due to visit Brazil and to attend events marking the day of independence of this country. During the visit is planned to finalize another defense contract on the sale of Brazil French submarines and helicopters.

Recall that Brazil has announced a tender FX-2 for the purchase of new fighter in 2008. Russia Su-35 was out of it even at the initial stage, but at present, the competition has remained an American F/A-18, the Swedish Gripen NG and the French Rafale. On intention to refer Brazilians production technology of these machines in different conditions have all three states, although the French have made their proposal well before the Swedes and Americans.

 

[sancho]

if india buys F-16IN than dont u think its advantage PAKISTAN??? F-16IN is new wine in old bottle.

Yes it would be an advantage for PAF and PLAAF, because they have much experience with this fighters and the F16IN will only differ in avionics and engines to PAFs upg F16 block 50 and the new block 52. They will have the same weapons, the same airframe and even CFT are available for block 52 (not sure if block 50 can use them too).
PLAAF gets experience with PAF F16 too and also got the Israeli Levi to develope a more improved, but similar fighter, the J10.
Another disadvantage could be, that we can share nearly nothing of F16IN with LCA, because the engine doesn't fit and the avionics should include techs of F35, so no way that US will offer us them, or even ToT of them.
Even the offer of F35 later, if we take F16 IN now is useless, because we already co-develop an own 5. gen fighter and don't need F35.

F16 IN is a good fighter, but all these disadvantages makes it less likely for IAF!

 

[Brahm0s]

Yes it would be an advantage for PAF and PLAAF, because they have much experience with this fighters and the F16IN will only differ in avionics and engines to PAFs upg F16 block 50 and the new block 52. They will have the same weapons, the same airframe and even CFT are available for block 52 (not sure if block 50 can use them too).
PLAAF gets experience with PAF F16 too and also got the Israeli Levi to develope a more improved, but similar fighter, the J10.
Another disadvantage could be, that we can share nearly nothing of F16IN with LCA, because the engine doesn't fit and the avionics should include techs of F35, so no way that US will offer us them, or even ToT of them.
Even the offer of F35 later, if we take F16 IN now is useless, because we already co-develop an own 5. gen fighter and don't need F35.

F16 IN is a good fighter, but all these disadvantages makes it less likely for IAF!

Friend well said. Thats what am saying. Its bit funny what america was thinking when they piched F-16 (named 'IN' lol) against lethel top fighters like Typhoon, rafael and mig-35. It does make me laugh how most pakistanis and some indians saying F-16IN front runner lol. F-16IN aint got any chance (unless india ill mind and brainless lol). Even with F-18. Some say india might pick F-18 so navy can get F-35 in future. Question here is why would IAF pick F-18? To satisfy navy? Lol. i keep saying and will say that rafael front runner. Than its Typhoon and than mig-35. Rafael will benefit india alot. France ready to give india all india needs. Rafael my most favorighte fighter after typhoon. Fight is between rafael and typhoon. Cheers.