Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

i wish india go for typhoon. India shouldn't look which jet fighter costly or cheap. They should go for best. My 1st choise is typhoon and than its mig-35.

The costs are only a minor requirement I guess, otherwise we would decide for Mig 29, or Mirage before. Those were cheaper in cost and maintenance than all the new contenders.
Imo the package of political benefits,ToT, capabilities of the fighter and at last the costs (in this order) will decide who will win.
EF is a great fighter, no doubt about that! But it causes too many delays it self (production, a2g capabilities, AESA radar), which also was reasons that it lost the Singapore competition although it didn't lost a single air combat. So without solving these problems it won't be a good choice for us.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Dassault will send two Rafales equipped with the new generation active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars for flight trials to India in September, the head of military aircraft, Eric Trappier said.

"India is a marathon, not a sprint," he said, referring to India's international tender for 126 medium range multi-role combat aircraft.

Dassault Seeks Tighter Cost Control at Thales - Defense News

Guess that settles it then. The Rafales are comin in September and they will be equipped with AESA!

 

[sancho]

Guess that settles it then. The Rafales are comin in September and they will be equipped with AESA!

Which will give them an advantage against EF and Grippen, cause both haven't an AESA ready now. The questsion is only how capable the RBE 2 AESA is compared to the US and the Russian?
Does anybody have some specs (radar range, number of targets that can be tracked at a time...) of the AESA radars in the competition?

 

[Screaming Skull]

“We’re taking Eurofighters flown by the German Air Force for the trials. And the idea is to conduct weapon trials in the United Kingdom using their aircraft. This will give the Indian Air Force a chance to interact with two other forces using the Eurofighter,” said Bernhard Gerwert, CEO of EADS Military Air Systems. He was talking to Express on the sidelines of the Royal Air Tattoo, an air show involving NATO air forces at Fairford, London.

“We see India as a partner rather than just as another prospective market. We want your country to play a role in future EADS programmes.

We’re open to the possibility of India becoming a manufacturing hub for our future exports,’’ Gerwert said.

As a first step EADS will launch its aviation research centre in Bangalore.

“We have already entered into a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with L&T. EADS will recruit 200 engineers in the next two years who will work on avionics and sensors,’’ he said adding that the manufacture of certain critical components could be totally offset to India.

“These parts will come directly to our assembly line like other components reaching us from partner countries UK, Spain or Italy. This will also give India a chance to showcase its technological prowess in handling complex technology,’’ he pointed out.

EADS has also decided to support India’s effort to fly an indigenous Light Combat Aircraft.

The LCA team recently visited Munich and held discussions with EADS to identify possible grounds where the two firms could meet to support the LCA programme. India’s LCA is facing cost and time overruns following a host of technical and technological issues.

According to Gerwert, EADS will help in LCA flight evaluation and tests. We are ready to provide engine technology which no other country will be ready to. The benefits we plan to give India are unparalleled, he said.

But according to IAF sources, Eurofighter is facing a tough flight plan as it costs more than its competitors.

“There are several positives like a modern airframe, avionics etc. We need to wait for the field trials to be over before any conclusion can be drawn,’’

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=EADS+looks+for+an+edge&artid=dekFxU7OQKM=&SectionID=oHSKVfNWYm0=&MainSectionID=oHSKVfNWYm0=&SectionName=VfE7I/Vl8os=&SEO=

Wow!!!!!

 

[Born In The USA]

Go for Eurofighter over F18 SH. Eurofighter is the best choice.

 

[sancho]

EADS looks for an edge

Wow!!!!!

So this confirms a partnership on EF right? What engine techs for LCA is he talking about?

 

[sabir]

it can be extended a bit ..........one country can select a plane and give the orders to the supplier and then continues a never ending evaluation process(ultimately choosing the one already ordered for).......to get the the ordered aircrafts earlier than its rival countries can anticipate..(in that case Rafale has more chance as it was rumoured to be out of contest).

Anyway, I feel the number should be distributed between two vendors to save time for induction (already a lot of delay just to make the selection)...as total number might be increased to 200....Eurofighter and Super-Hornet. It may be little difficult as IAF has experience in only Russian and French aircrafts....but it will have knowledge about western technologies.

 

[Jako]

Sabir,ultimately it is india in which bulk of the jets would be manufactured.....so two vendors doesnt really mean quick iduction time here,infact time taken may get larger,coz in that case we need to build up infrastructure and train workers for two different projects/fighters!.....also we already have too many platforms in our fighter fleet,two vendors thus may not be an intelligent option......hope you get my point....regards

 

[Screaming Skull]

Sabir,ultimately it is india in which bulk of the jets would be manufactured.....so two vendors doesnt really mean quick iduction time here,infact time taken may get larger,coz in that case we need to build up infrastructure and train workers for two different projects/fighters!.....also we already have too many platforms in our fighter fleet,two vendors thus may not be an intelligent option......hope you get my point....regards

Spot on! The IAF has clarified on several occasions that a split order is not in the interest of the IAF or the manufacturing agence, HAL. But, I won't be surprised if we go for a split order. Then, it will be a political decision against the interests of the IAF.

 

[Screaming Skull]

So this confirms a partnership on EF right? What engine techs for LCA is he talking about?

Well the relationship that we have with EADS right now can not be termed as a partnership as yet. There is a certain cooperation with EADS which is not very cozy at the moment. The point being, EADS will open up fully and cooperate only if it has something substantial to gain with its association with the LCA programme. For, that we will have to give them either the engine contract or the MMRCA contract. This is all part of the deal!

Coming back to your second question, I am guessing that the engine tech mentioned in the report has to do with the ToT with regards to the EJ-200 engine for LCA mark2 or the EF as MMRCA winner. Essentially, they are clarifying that they will offer us much more than GE-F414 in terms of performance as well as tech.

 

[sabir]

Sabir,ultimately it is india in which bulk of the jets would be manufactured.....so two vendors doesnt really mean quick iduction time here,infact time taken may get larger,coz in that case we need to build up infrastructure and train workers for two different projects/fighters!.....also we already have too many platforms in our fighter fleet,two vendors thus may not be an intelligent option......hope you get my point....regards

Thank u.........I really missed d point that bulk of the aircrafts will be manufactured in india.....Hope our politicians r not short-sighted like me. Mr Skull is quite right.

 

[sabir]

but I feel Monopoly of DRDO in Indian defence industry will not sustain for very long as private players ( like Tata boeing) r also entering the field. in that case we may be abale to afford manufacturing different models of aircrafts simultaneusly in the country. but problem of IAF to induct them will be the ultimate concern. anyway competition from private entity will eventually increase the efficiency level in DRDO and better management of project.

 

[sancho]

A very interesting article about the Rafale!

Avionics Magazine :: Serious Squall

Some important points:

Designed from the outset as a multi-role, low-observable combat aircraft with a diminutive radar cross section

The types of missions assigned to the Rafale range from combat air-interdiction, including quick reaction alert and round-the-clock air defense, to ground attack and sea strikes, to deep nuclear strike missions with the MBDA nuclear-tipped ASMP-A cruise missile

The Rafale F3 not only integrates the largest and most modern range of sensors, it increases their efficiency through multi-sensor data fusion, allowing the aircraft to become a key element of a wider Network Centric Warfare system.

In this regard, Rafale crews, along with French Army Sperwer tactical UAV crews, this past winter developed a series of new procedures for launching the AASM rocket-bomb. The bomb is programmed in flight at the last moment from real-time reconnaissance coordinates of ground targets spotted by the Sperwer UAV flying at low altitude forward of a Rafale strike party.

The present radar air-to-air modes include long-range search; multi target track and engagement; air combat modes; Non-Cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR); and look down/shoot down functions. In air-to-air mode, the RBE2 gives a tracking range beyond 60 nautical miles against a 30-square-foot target, with detection ranges up to 75 nautical miles. The radar can track and prioritize up to 40 targets simultaneously and engage up to eight with Mica, and soon Meteor, air-to-air missiles.

The efficiency of Spectra notably was demonstrated in 2008 at the Red Flag exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada, where during all sorties the Rafale escaped SAM missile threats. This followed a successful demonstration at the NATO MACE electronic warfare campaign in Europe.

 

[Screaming Skull]

MMRCA trials to begin in Bangalore next week​

India's quest to buy 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) will shift gear when the flight trials of the six global contenders will begin in Bangalore next week with US major Boeing's warplane F/A-18 being the first contender.

"F/A-18 will be the first contender to arrive in India for the trails that will begin in Bangalore next week," top IAF officers said here today.

After Bangalore, all contending aircraft will move to Leh for high altitude trials and to Jaisalmer for summer trials. "We are optimistic that the trails on Indian soil and conditions of all the six aircraft competing for the deal will be completed before April end next year,"

"As per the trial schedule, the first phase involved training of Indian pilots on these competing aircraft in the country of origin. The second phase is the flight trials on Indian soil and airspace. The third phase would be test of specialist weapons that the manufacturers would provide on the aircraft in the country of their choice," they said.

A two-pilot team would test each of the aircraft, as there is a likelihood of overlap of the flight trial schedule of the six aircraft, the IAF officers said.

"The idea is to complete the trials as soon as possible and hence we got four pilots trained on these competing aircraft,"

 

[Arun tevar]

A very interesting article about the Rafale!

Avionics Magazine :: Serious Squall

Some important points:

Sancho,the above post surely indicates that the rafael is a grt package at offer.But as the competion is stiffening and all the competitors r losening up & offering more to ensure an edge over the other,its deficult to predict the best option.Lets wait for the trials.......r.&.p.