Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

MMRCA line-up at Aero India 2011:


F18SH and EF

More here
Chindits: Typhoons To Remove Their Packaging Tomorrow !!


UAE F16 B60 and US F16 B???

Rafale

More here
Livefist: AERO INDIA: The Dassault Rafale's First Public Appearance In India


Gripen C an D

 

[the rafter]

UK defence official says Eurofigther Typhoon is not expensive, IBN Live News

Bangalore, Feb 8 (PTI) A top UK defence official today dismissed suggestions that the offer of Eurofighter Typhoon, one of the contenders for the USD ten billion medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract in India, is "overpriced". Responding to questions at a press conference here, Air Marshal Leeson, Chief of Material Air, Royal Air Force, said he did not support the view that the Typhoon offer was "expensive". If one assessed its capability, it's actually a cost-effective solution", he argued. "I don't accept that Eurofighter Typhoon is very expensive". He said Typhoon compares "extraordinarily well" vis-a-vis "through life costs". The four Eurofighter partner countries are Germany, the UK, Italy and Spain. Meanwhile, Richard Paniguian, Head of UK Trade & Investment's Defence and Security Organisation (UKTI DSO), said the UK's defence, science and technology laboratories were set for signing a "letter of arrangement" with India's Defence Research and Development Organisation. He termed this proposed agreement a "very important step in binding together our scientific and technology programmes". "In the UK, we want closer collaboration with India in science and technology", Paniguian added. British Minister for Defence Equipment Support and Technology, Peter Luff, is leading a large defence and business delegation to Aero India 2011 commencing here tomorrow. Close to 40 UK companies are expected to visit the five-day show. "Every UK company who has made this journey to Aero India is looking for the opportunity to build partnership with their counterparts here in India", Paniguian said.

 

[the rafter]

UPDATE 1-Swedish Saab to open R&D unit in India | Reuters

Swedish defence and aerospace group Saab AB plans to open a research and development centre in India "soon," as it looks to boost its presence in one of the fastest growing aircraft markets, its chief executive said on Tuesday.

The Swedish firm plans to add 300 engineers over five years, Hakan Buskhe told a media briefing.

 

[jha]

Gripen for Air Force M-MRCA - Sweden Promises Full, True Tech Transfer

At a press briefing on the eve of Aero India 2011 here in Bangalore, Swedish Ministry of Defence official Mr. Hakan Jevrell promised true and full technology transfer for the Saab Gripen fighter jet. Saab is pitching the Gripen fighter jet for the USD 11 billion Air Force Multi-Role Combat Aircraft competition.

Mr Hakan Jevrell, representing the Swedish government, focused his message on full support, long term co-operation, full and true technology transfer, zero-corruption and high levels of integrity. In addition to Mr. Hakan Jevrell, the press briefing featured Mr. Hakan Bushke, CEO of Saab and Mr. Inderjit Sial who is the country head for Saab in India.

Saab CEO Mr. Hakan Bushke complemented Mr. Jevrell's message by announcing the creation of a Research and Development center in India which would be operational in five years with 300-500 Indian engineers. His message stressed on the importance of India as a design and manufacturing hub in addition to being a genuine large long-term market.

Mr. Eddy de la Motte, Campaign Director for Gripen promised full Transfer-of-Technology (ToT) on all critical sub components including AESA radar. Saab officials further revealed tie ups with HAL with components from Saab featuring on export variants of HAL Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopters that were sold in South America.

 

[duhastmish]

AERO INDIA: Boeing reveals advanced Super Hornet options

Boeing has unveiled a series of advanced options for international customers of the F-18 E/F Super Hornet, including conformal fuel tanks, a pod for the internal carriage of weapons, an internally-mounted infrared search and track (IRST) sensor, and enhanced engine performance.

The new options could be available for Super Hornets delivered from 2015 onwards, though the options can be retrofitted to Block II versions of the aircraft, says Boeing. The options are currently in the "concept definition phase."

Boeing says that one of these options, 15-20% improved performance for the aircraft's two General Electric F414 engines, was offered to India in the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition.

The conformal fuel tanks will be able to carry up to 3,000lbs of additional fuel, while reducing the aircraft's drag and improving its lift, says Boeing.

The enclosed weapons pod will both reduce drag and improve the aircraft's low observable characteristics as compared with weapons carried externally. The pod will be able to carry up 2,000lb of munitions. Alternatively, two enclosed weapons pods can be carried under the aircraft's inboard weapons pylons.

"Ninety five percent of missions don't require stealth, but this pod is for the five percent that do require more stealth," says a Boeing spokesman.

Another option will be a cockpit display featuring a single, 11x19in display with improved graphics and a touch screen interface. The screen will allow pilots to manipulate flight and combat data on a single large screen. The large screen will also be more effective at displaying information produced by the aircraft's APG-79 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar when operating in multiple modes, such as air-to-air and air-to-ground.

The IRST sensor will be slung under the nose to the gun bay door. While US fighters typically don't have an internal IRST capability - instead relying on AESA - IRST is stipulated in India's MMRCA request for proposals.
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http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/02/09/352926/aero-india-boeing-reveals-advanced-super-hornet-options.html

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sounds very good option way more stealthy and advance avionics, pilot friendly interface.

lets see the tot option. things are getting heated up.

 

[rockstarIN]

i never heard that IAF was ever intrested in AESA for mig-29 upgrade..
it was surely IAF decision..

In cost-Benefit analysis, it might not feasible to go AESA for Mig-29, and the Migs are already old.

 

[sancho]

Here is an interview with Rick McCrary, the Director of International Business Development of Boeing Military Aircraft, Boeing Defense, Space & Security. Much PR, especially when he talks about the other contenders (including F16IN), but he is confirming some interesting points about the F18SH.


Video one, minute 10:00:

optimised for strike, very capable A2A, but it handles A2A with technology, not with speed and acceleration. Because the same thing that makes it a great shortfield airplane, makes it not a very fast airplane, it's got a fat wing

minute 10:58

The combination of AESA radar and a long range BVR missile is how you protect your fleet, but it's really more for self defense, then to run a clear sky scenario

Video 2, minute 2:08

The navy had a plan for the EPE engine, we did that on the classic one (F18 Hornet), so we developed an EPE motor, not for the navy actually, but for Kuwait, because the high temperature operations wanted more thrust, so we've done this before. For the navy (now coming back to the Super Hornet), will they buy an EPE if somebody else pay to develop it? Yes, but what they probably will do is, to dial it back and just have an extended life.

YouTube - Rick McCrary-Boeing "Extolling F/A-18 Super Hornet" Part 01

YouTube - Rick McCrary-Boeing "Extolling F/A-18 Super Hornet" Part -02


So much for F18SH having less drag, but once again official confirmation that it is mainly a bomb truck and not really useful as a fighter. It has good techs and weapons, while the platform is nothing special at all and designd for the needs of an USN carrier fighter.
It also confirms once again, that the EPE engine and latest MAWS and LWR are on offer as options in the MMRCA, but needs additional fundings for development and integration, which increases the costs again.

Bottom line is, even with additional options, the F18SH won't be on a same tech level as the Eurocanards, but will be closer in terms of costs again.
The chances of F18SH now purely are based on political points only and if they don't fulfill the technical requirements, it will be interesting to see how GoI and MoD wants to shortlist them?

 

[the rafter]

AERO INDIA: Eurofighter reveals offer to produce navalised Typhoon

The Eurofighter consortium is offering India the opportunity to acquire a new version of its Typhoon for use from a future indigenous aircraft carrier, with the first firm details of the proposal having emerged at the show.
One of six contenders battling for the Indian air force's 126-aircraft medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal, Eurofighter is here touting the potential of a navalised development which has already been studied in detail in the UK.
"If Typhoon wins MMRCA then India will have the indigenous skills to develop a navalised version," says Paul Hopkins, BAE Systems' vice-president business development (air) India. "This is a perfect opportunity for the nation to add aircraft with both land and sea capabilities."
Being shown in model form for the first time this week, the European type would receive several new features to support its proposed life at sea. These include a new, stronger landing gear, a modified arrestor hook and thrust-vectoring control nozzles for its two Eurojet EJ200 turbofan engines. The latter would enable the fighter to approach the vessel at a reduced speed without restricting pilot vision by requiring an increased angle of attack.
Eurofighter says only localised strengthening would be required on some fuselage sections near the landing gear, and to the EJ200. Conformal fuel tanks could also be integrated with the airframe to extend the strike aircraft's range.
Video footage being shown in the Eurofighter and BAE exhibit areas includes recent simulation-based imagery of tests made using adapted flight control software and new engine modelling. Sporting Indian navy markings, the navalised Typhoon is depicted taking off from a deck space similar to that aboard the ex-Russian navy aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov, which is now being modified for Indian use.
Also of interest for Indian applications is a new weapons option being displayed for the first time with a full-scale model of the Typhoon. Working in conjunction with Saab and Diehl, Eurofighter is offering the RBS15 anti-ship missile as a future payload for the multi-role fighter.
The company is also showcasing technologies including an active electronically scanned array radar offered for the Typhoon, and providing demonstrations with a BAE-developed smart helmet display system for the type.

Looks like the naval version of Typhoon will have TVC (Thrust Vectoring Control)

 

[jha]

RAFALE gone from Brazil's competition...Another Failure for DASSAULT..

Brazil seeks better terms in Boeing jet bid-source

* Rousseff voices preference for Boeing in jets tender

* Brazil seeks more guarantees on technology, better terms

* Rousseff sees deal as way of bolstering ties with U.S. (Adds details, context)

By Brian Winter

SAO PAULO, Feb 8 (Reuters) - Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff has told visitors she believes Boeing's (BA.N) F-18 is the best jet among three finalists in a multi-billion dollar Air Force fighter tender, but she is still pressing for better terms on technology transfers that are critical to any deal.

Rousseff raised the issue of the jet tender during a meeting in Brasilia on Monday with U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, sources with knowledge of the conversation told Reuters. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.

Rousseff told Geithner she considered the purchase of at least three dozen jets as a way to not only modernize Brazil's Air Force but also potentially to improve strategic and trade ties with the United States -- a major goal of her foreign policy since taking office on Jan. 1.

However, Rousseff said she remained concerned about the transfers of proprietary technology that Brazil wants as a way to help develop its own defense industry as part of any deal.

She is seeking both improved terms from Boeing and further guarantees from the U.S. government that it will allow sensitive military technology to change hands, the sources said.

The other finalists in the bidding process are the Rafale jet built by France's Dassault (AVMD.PA) and the Gripen NG produced by Sweden's Saab (SAABb.ST).

Rousseff's comments -- plus her previous decision to delay the tender instead of immediately awarding it to Dassault, as many of her defense chiefs wanted -- suggest that she is leaning toward the Boeing bid but is still pressing companies to come up with better terms in a deal that will shape Brazil's defense alliances for decades to come. [ID:nN18151639]

A spokesman for Rousseff's office declined comment.

Boeing spokeswoman Marcia Costley said the technology transfer guarantee was an issue that would be decided by the two governments.

The company is willing to provide Brazil with further technological know-how and other assistance in areas such as transport, satellites and weapons systems as part of the deal, she added.

"Boeing has the capability and resources to live up to its promises on ... technology transfer and the track record to prove it," Costley said via e-mail.

UPDATE 1-Brazil seeks better terms in Boeing jet bid-source | Reuters

 

[jha]

Maybe its time to go for advanced Super-Hornet and get the most extensive range of weapons..

Another shocker for RAFALE fans..

 

[the rafter]

From all this fanfare and displays at Aero India '11, my guess is that MoD's 2 shortlist jets could be:
1) Eurofighter Typhoon (info could have leaked or have been informed about it and probably thats why UK and Germany are taking so much lead in projecting Typhoon and its future road map).

UK defence official says Eurofigther Typhoon is not expensive, IBN Live News
AERO INDIA: Eurofighter reveals offer to produce navalised Typhoon

2) Boeing F-A/18 Super Hornet: Also taking lead in showing future roadmap in Aero India.

AERO INDIA: VIDEO - Boeing reveals advanced Super Hornet options

This is my opinion, I welcome more discussions and everyone's opinion.

 

[sancho]

Maybe its time to go for advanced Super-Hornet and get the most extensive range of weapons..

Another shocker for RAFALE fans..

sources with knowledge of the conversation told Reuters.

Here some Eurofighter PR, but with interesting reports and pics about the Indra Dhanush excercise, MMRCA competition and the naval Typhoon:

http://www.eurofighter.com/fileadmin/web_data/downloads/efworld/ef-world_1-2011.pdf

 

[sancho]

From all this fanfare and displays at Aero India '11, my guess is that MoD's 2 shortlist jets could be:
1) Eurofighter Typhoon (info could have leaked or have been informed about it and probably thats why UK and Germany are taking so much lead in projecting Typhoon and its future road map).

UK defence official says Eurofigther Typhoon is not expensive, IBN Live News
AERO INDIA: Eurofighter reveals offer to produce navalised Typhoon

2) Boeing F-A/18 Super Hornet: Also taking lead in showing future roadmap in Aero India.

AERO INDIA: VIDEO - Boeing reveals advanced Super Hornet options

This is my opinion, I welcome more discussions and everyone's opinion.

Both is actually not surprising, UK and Germany are the leading countries in the EF programm and as the reports showed, Boeing had to offer "some" options, to fulfill the RFP requirements.

The problem is, that both fighters are meant exactly for the opposite roles, the EF is best in A2A, the F18SH is best in A2G. However, that's not what we need, because we need a true multi role fighter and making the EF more capable in A2G (more weapons, possibly CFTs), or the F18SH in A2A (EPE engines, upgraded sensors) means additional costs.

 

[the rafter]

Both is actually not surprising, UK and Germany are the leading countries in the EF programm and as the reports showed, Boeing had to offer "some" options, to fulfill the RFP requirements.

The problem is, that both fighters are meant exactly for the opposite roles, the EF is best in A2A, the F18SH is best in A2G. However, that's not what we need, because we need a true multi role fighter and making the EF more capable in A2G (more weapons, possibly CFTs), or the F18SH in A2A (EPE engines, upgraded sensors) means additional costs.

I totally agree with you. But if you look at the requirements of IAF, they initially need 18 directly from the manufacturer and rest (108) will be manufactured/assembled by HAL (2015-17). This gives the manufacturers enough time to incorporate the upgrades and retrofit later (i.e. Eurofighter maturing with AESA and A to G and/or Super Hornet improving on its A to A and other upgrades).

 

[rockstarIN]

Come on Dassult, few options,

-Half the price for M2K upgrade

-Full ToT for Rafale

-Rafale AESA for LCA

-Co develop AMCA