Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[Agnostic_Indian]

self delete....

 

[SpArK]

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

^got it chief and minister says same..If no trouble by september or else by 2012.

 

[Paan Singh]

upto maximum the deal will be extended till starting of 2012,its not bad although..
but till that time india will loose more 3-4 migs

 

[rockstarIN]

India may announce MMRCA deal by Sept: IAF Chief

BANGALORE (BNS): India is likely to sign the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract by September 2011, Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief-of-Staff P V Naik said Thursday.

“Commercial negotiations for the deal will begin in next two to three weeks and we will be signing the MMRCA contract by September this year,” the IAF Chief told reporters at Aero India 2011.

All six contenders for the big-ticket deal are participating in the aero show, pegged to be Asia’s largest air show.

Earlier, Defence Minister AK Antony made it clear that no political considerations will come in the path while deciding the winner. He also said that the decision will be taken based on the requirements projected by the IAF.

India's planned multi-billion dollar aircraft deal is the biggest contract ever since the 1990s. In 2001, IAF sent out its request for information (RFI) for the 126 fighters. After delays lasting almost 2 years beyond the planned December 2005 issue date, the Ministry of Defence finally announced a formal Request for Proposal (RFP) on August 2007.

Six global fighters – Lockheed Martin's F-16 Super Viper, Eurofighter's Typhoon, Russian United Aircraft Corporation's Mikoyan MiG-35, France's Dassault Aviation's Rafale, Swedish SAAB's Gripen and Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet – had submitted their bids in response to it.

India may announce MMRCA deal by Sept: IAF Chief - Brahmand.com

 

[rockstarIN]

Great.

Now the chocolaty Superbug fangirl is going to be angry on this.

I think now the EF is leading. The IAF chief had commented today that the negotiations for the Mirage upgrade was a difficult one..so it will be in back of the head regarding Rafale.

I know..I knoww

 

[rockstarIN]

Great.

Now the chocolaty Superbug fangirl is going to be angry on this.

I think now the EF is leading. The IAF chief had commented today that the negotiations for the Mirage upgrade was a difficult one..so it will be in back of the head regarding Rafale.

There is enough room for Rafale..if they reduce price+free upgrade for Mk2

 

[sancho]

Great.

Now the chocolaty Superbug fangirl is going to be angry on this.

I think now the EF is leading. The IAF chief had commented today that the negotiations for the Mirage upgrade was a difficult one..so it will be in back of the head regarding Rafale.

Hi Spark, as I said yesterday, that is an Ajai Shukla article, so should be taken carefully!

From all what we know (and what I've heared) the F18SH had some issues, but one thing is for sure, at least 1 US fighter will be shortlisted for sure, either for political reasons, or simply to put pressure on the Europeans.

However, lets assume it's really about EF and Rafale, it is also clear which fighter is prefered by whom!

EF offers - the best offset package, at least equal ToT, political advantages of 4 partner countries (although only Germany and UK are on a level with France)

It's undeniabley the choice of the industry and politics!

Rafale offers - commonality to present IAF fleet, already placed logistics, maintenance and support routes, ease in training pilots and ground crews, clearly the better multi role capabilities and is more mature.

Which makes it the obvious choice for IAF and with the advantage of commonality and reduced costs at higher numbers, also for IN. More over, the fact that Rafale has a lower unit cost and needs less additional upgrades will should be a point that makes finance ministry happy.

So when it's up between these two, Rafale is L1 and offers the most advantages for our forces, while EF offers better industrial and "possibly" (UK, ITA and to some extend Germany are highly bound to US) more political advantages.

 

[rockstarIN]

Im happy with anyone - EF or Rafale..

 

[SpArK]

Hi Spark, as I said yesterday, that is an Ajai Shukla article, so should be taken carefully!

From all what we know (and what I've heared) the F18SH had some issues, but one thing is for sure, at least 1 US fighter will be shortlisted for sure, either for political reasons, or simply to put pressure on the Europeans.

However, lets assume it's really about EF and Rafale, it is also clear which fighter is prefered by whom!

EF offers - the best offset package, at least equal ToT, political advantages of 4 partner countries (although only Germany and UK are on a level with France)

It's undeniabley the choice of the industry and politics!

Rafale offers - commonality to present IAF fleet, already placed logistics, maintenance and support routes, ease in training pilots and ground crews, clearly the better multi role capabilities and is more mature.

Which makes it the obvious choice for IAF and with the advantage of commonality and reduced costs at higher numbers, also for IN. More over, the fact that Rafale has a lower unit cost and needs less additional upgrades will should be a point that makes finance ministry happy.

So when it's up between these two, Rafale is L1 and offers the most advantages for our forces, while EF offers better industrial and "possibly" (UK, ITA and to some extend Germany are highly bound to US) more political advantages.

The mirage upgrade has nt yet been finalised and is expected in March.. will we see a negotiation based on the upgrade deal in off set talks beginning from a week or 2 ??

 

[sancho]

There is enough room for Rafale..if they reduce price+free upgrade for Mk2

I explained it before, it isn't that much costlier compared to the Mig 29 upgrade, as many believes, because it includes the price of the weapons too. When you look at the costs of the fighter upgrade only, the Mirage costs about $1.5 billions, while the Mig costs $900 millions + $275 millions for the engines (Russian engines has less life) = $1.175 billions.
That's why I don't think the price negotiations were that difficult, but like Jha once said, the switch of M2Ks role to the nuclear role, which could require more specific techs of the M2K-N:

Mirage 2000N

The Mirage 2000N is the nuclear strike variant which was intended to carry the Aerospatiale Air-Sol Moyenne Portee (ASMP) nuclear stand-off missile. Initial flight tests of two prototypes began on February 3, 1983, and the Mirage 2000N entered operational service in 1988. A total of 75 were built.

The fighter had strengthened wings for low-altitude operations, as well as low-level precision navigation/attack systems, built around the Dassault/Thales Antilope 5 radar, which was designed for the strike role and featured a terrain-avoidance capability.

The ASMP missile is 5.38 meters long with a kerosene-powered ramjet that allows it to cruise at Mach 3 to a maximum range of 100 km carrying a nuclear warhead with a yield of 300 kT.

Dassault Mirage 2000N/2000D - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Altough I don't think we will get ASMP officially, even if range limited, the other changes could be done, or at least be requested by IAF, which knows about M2Ks capabilities quiet well.
Price is always an issue with French products, no doubt about that, but I do think there is more behind the M2K upgrade then we know.

 

[rockstarIN]

M2K-N? we have MKI for Nuke delivery right? as required by the Strategic command?

 

[jha]

Cost of Mirage upgrade was never a concern to me..We are getting damn good deal ..We should not just make opinions on half known facts..

 

[sancho]

Cost of Mirage upgrade was never a concern to me..We are getting damn good deal ..We should not just make opinions on half known facts..

I 2nd that, they did a good job in the past and will do it with the upgrade also for a long time!


P.S.

46-Minutes, 9G In A Rafale

Just did a 46-minute sortie in a Rafale at Yelahanka, and have been informed that I'm the first Indian civilian to fly in the fighter. I flew with a Dassault test pilot. Photographer Vishal Jolapara has taken some truly stunning pictures of my flight, which I'll post shortly. And I'll post in detail about the flight later tonight.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/02/46-minutes-9g-in-rafale.html

 

[SpArK]

Open the image in a seperate window..

Credits:sancho.