Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[SpArK]

Czechs producing pylons for Gripen jets - UPI.com

SA proves girls can fly fighter jets - Newspaper - Mail & Guardian Online

 

[GORKHALI]

Fighting Spirit exercise

 

[deepakclaw]

what ever may be its wise not to buy uncle sam's fighter planes. but if we do then----------

 

[sancho]

We know it was escorted by the Mirage carrying targeting PODs for the Rafale, we have wonderful pictures taken by Thomas Goisque as proof.

LOL escorted by Mirage with targeting pods! Hilarious, without a doubt the funniest statement you ever made!

As I told you earlier, just open your eyes (and your highly biased mind) and you will see the facts! The Mirage 2000s carry targeting pods to guide the Paveway LGBs they carry as well. Rafale instead, carries AASM with GPS, or IR guidance, they don't need a targeting pod for guidance and more importantly, none of these fighters carries any EW pods!
Once again you proved that your speculations are totally baseless, congrats for that!

You said the Growler was no where near Libya on 19 March, I showed you a picture of the Growler in Italy on the same day.

Oh please, if you can't prove your speculations, don't start lying!
I said that French fighters made the first missions above Libyia (recon, escort and strikes) and these were not supported by dedicated EW fighters like the Growlers. This is proven by French and US sources that confirms, what role the French fighters played and that the first US aircraft involved was the B2!

the fact that i have mentioned is put on wiki and number of websites which stated that the hard point can be increased to 14 with MER

But only for dumb bombs, not for PGMs, or missiles, or any other important weapons and that's one of the many wrong points in your logic!
I provided official specs and weapon loadouts and you still keep speculation, the pic from acig.org shows multi pylons for dumb bombs, but you can't use other weapons from it.

Also there was no source that the payload can be increases, you wrongly assumed it:

Oke let me explain you external Payload .. though i took it from Wiki

Empty weight: 18,400 kg
Loaded weight: 24,900 kg
Max takeoff weight: 38,800 kg

see the loaded weight and MTOW... it has got 15 tonn pay load capacity...

I explained you why this is wrong and that the weight limit of the hardpoint is the important limitation.

oke let us assume MKI has got 12 hard points only.... it can load on all 12 hard points and go and target 1000 km away... can the EFT load all 13 hardpoints and go 1000 km and target?? bolo?

Of course, because with 3 x fuel tanks it has a better fuel fraction than the MKI with total internal fuel and even the official figures for ferry range should make that clear, because the EF has 3700Km ferry range, while the MKI only 3000Km.

 

[bhagat]

IAF won't accept any last minute offers from contenders

New Delhi, Mar 28 (PTI) The Indian Air Force has decided against accepting any last minute offers from the contenders of the multi-billion dollar deal for purchase of 126 fighter aircraft even as it rejected a bidder's proposal to equip its warplanes with a more powerful jet engine.

"No offers for upgrades or changes in the original bid submitted by the six aircraft companies would be allowed as their aircraft have been judged on the basis of capabilities offered in the original bid and their performance in the field trials," IAF sources said here.

Six companies -- Lockheed Martin (F-16), Boeing (F/A-18 E/F), Dassault Aviation (Rafale), Saab Gripen, Rosoboronexport MiG 35 and EADS Eurofighter Typhoon are contenders in the USD 11 billion dollar contract of the IAF for procuring 126 Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft (M-MRCA).

fullstory

 

[sancho]

F-16 UAE arrive in Italy for Operation Odyssey Sunrise

Twelve Air Force fighters of the UAE, a key U.S. ally, landed on Sunday morning in Decimomannu Air Base, on the Italian island of Sardinia, from which depart from this Monday to support the missions of the deployment area to fly over Libya. Among the six aircraft were F-16E / F Desert Falcons and Dassault Mirage 2000-9 six aircraft, which departed from the Emirates on Thursday, after confirmation of participation given by the Minister of Foreign Relations of the Emirates , Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al -Nahyan.

A former Air Force Commander of the UAE said last week that his country had delayed its military presence because of disagreements with the West over the situation in Bahrain , where there is a Shiite revolt against the Sunni royal family.

The Qatar, the first Arab country to send aircraft to the conflict in Libya, held its first strike mission on Friday , when two Mirage 2000-5 fighter planes were accompanied by two aircraft of the type of the French Air Force.

 

[sancho]

IAF won't accept any last minute offers from contenders

New Delhi, Mar 28 (PTI) The Indian Air Force has decided against accepting any last minute offers from the contenders of the multi-billion dollar deal for purchase of 126 fighter aircraft even as it rejected a bidder's proposal to equip its warplanes with a more powerful jet engine.

"No offers for upgrades or changes in the original bid submitted by the six aircraft companies would be allowed as their aircraft have been judged on the basis of capabilities offered in the original bid and their performance in the field trials," IAF sources said here.

Interesting, if that is true it means the F18SH must be judged by the performance with the normal GE 414 engine and according to several reports, that wasn't sufficient.

 

[typhoon77]

Interesting, if that is true it means the F18SH must be judged by the performance with the normal GE 414 engine and according to several reports, that wasn't sufficient.

It also wouldn't included the new IRST, weapons pod, CFT, upgraded avionics etc. This means the Eurofighter, Rafale, SH, and Gripen are all on a level playing field, for the most part.

 

[kingdurgaking]

But only for dumb bombs, not for PGMs, or missiles, or any other important weapons and that's one of the many wrong points in your logic!
I provided official specs and weapon loadouts and you still keep speculation, the pic from acig.org shows multi pylons for dumb bombs, but you can't use other weapons from it. Also there was no source that the payload can be increases, you wrongly assumed it:

hmmmmm.. is this your assumption or you have any source to back only for dumb bombs... if you put multirack pylon.. who said external payload will increase? for (e.g.)Archers total weight is 225 kg... and you multiply by 225*14=3150 kg (i.e) 3 tonne... which is less than the total external payload which is 8000kg.. so how does your logic say that putting multipylon will increase the external payload?..

Another one question.. if an manufacture quotes that total external payload is 8tonnne.. which means the hardpoints are configured to carry upto 8tonnes right? how is this logic not apply to AAM?

I explained you why this is wrong and that the weight limit of the hardpoint is the important limitation.

i never argued after that for 8 tonne with MKI? i stoped there taking your answer and then i debated only on 12 AAM or 14 AAM...

Of course, because with 3 x fuel tanks it has a better fuel fraction than the MKI with total internal fuel and even the official figures for ferry range should make that clear, because the EF has 3700Km ferry range, while the MKI only 3000Km.

i gave you a source it has a fuel fraction of .30 with external fuel i didnt argue on that.. with external fuel tanks it will go upto 3700 Km did i argue on that??no... but i am arguing with 3 fuel tanks getting wet it has space only for 10 hardpoints.. while MKI can go upto 3000 Km with internal fuel alone more than enough for any mission..by that time it goes out for the target it would empty half the fuel having better performance there.. where EFT has to jettisson its fuel tanks before the mission... and MKI still can go with full load of ammunitions which is not the same with EFT... EFT is an air superiority fighter no doubt but it carries less which will add to MKI advantage.. without those fuel tanks it cant go a long distance...

MKI also carries one special weapon which so far is not posed by EFT nor it is capable of carrying also...

 

[angeldemon_007]

It also wouldn't included the new IRST, weapons pod, CFT, upgraded avionics etc. This means the Eurofighter, Rafale, SH, and Gripen are all on a level playing field, for the most part.

All these upgrades come under international roadmap plan. It means if IAF will select F18SH E/F, it will be given opportunity to participate in international roadmap. This means that in future if India wants these upgraded feature, they can be incorporated in SH but these features will not there in the current SH offered to India.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

 

[the rafter]

France tries to tie Rafale with Mirage upgrade

Insidious French attempts to link the Indian Air Force's (IAFs) long-postponed and contentious Mirage 2000H fleet upgrade to the $10 billion acquisition of Dassault's Rafale fighters in support of the IAF's requirement of 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), have further delayed the pending retrofit.

Ostensibly, the deal to upgrade the IAFs 51 Vajra (Thunderbolt) Mirage 2000Hs, widely expected to be confirmed by end-March with fighter manufacturers Dassault Aviation, official sources said, had been further deferred beyond the March 2011 deadline following unresolved price differences over the retrofit.

The IAF merely confirmed the upgrade agreement had not been signed but declined to elaborate.

Last month Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik had declared at Aero India in Bangalore that the "complex and lengthy" negotiations with Dassault Aviation to upgrade the Mirage 2000Hs to Mirage 2000-5 levels had "concluded satisfactorily" and would be announced "shortly" by the Ministry of Defence (MoD). But military and armament industry sources said in recent weeks that the retrofit had been "complicated" by pressure from a desperate France to "inter-relate" it to the MMRCA procurement reportedly nearing closure.

Rafale is pitted against Boeing's F/A-18E/F, Eurofighter's Typhoon, Lockheed Martin's F16IN, Russian Aircraft Corporation's (RSK's) MiG 35 and Saab's JAS 39 Gripen for the MMRCA deal that is expected to increase to 200 fighters for around $16 billion.

On 10 March, ACM Naik had declared that the MoD would shortlist the MMRCA from amongst the six competitors by end-March and "hopefully" confirm the procurement four months later in July.

Believing Rafale to be in the MoD's shortlist alongside Eurofighter and F/A-18, the French were reportedly using the Mirage 2000H upgrade as leverage and possibly even an inducement to push their fighter so far only in service with the French military.

Earlier, in January 2008 Dassault's chief executive officer Charles Edelstenne, accompanying French President Nicolas Sarkozy on his India visit had made an unsolicited offer of supplying the IAF 40 Rafale fighters pending an "eventual decision" to augment its dwindling fighter fleet.

"If India is interested, we are ready to answer (with Rafale fighters). The offer stands," Edelstenne had declared, adding that the proposal to supply 40 Rafales was a "short term measure" keeping in mind delays that normally accompany all Indian defence contracts.

"We have some experience with Indian delays. Which is why Dassault has made the unsolicited offer," he stated. At the time the MoD and the IAF declined to comment on Edelstenne's offer.

Edelstenne also maintained that French government policies were more conducive than those of the United States for smooth defence ties with India.

"Our market is for countries that want to be independent of the US. The US policy (of imposing sanctions and stopping military deals) is well-known. We are a country which sells military equipment without any preconditions," he said.

The Dassault head was referring to US-imposed sanctions on India for its 1998 nuclear tests that impacted negatively on several domestic military projects and in providing spares to Indian Navy helicopters, a measure that severely curtailed their operational mobility. The sanctions, eventually lifted in October 2001 also impacted adversely on India's indigenous Light Combat Aircraft programme, delaying its development by several years as it is powered by a US-supplied engine.

Meanwhile, the IAF and the MoD had dismissed Dassault's demand of $3.3 billion to retrofit the Mirage-2000H fleet as "highly inflated". Both concurred that each upgrade, costing around Rs 2.9 billion each, which included equipping the fighters with new avionics, advanced navigation systems, mission computers and a pulse doppler radar capable of identifying objects up to a distance of 70 nm, was roughly equivalent to the price of a new fighter but critically without the active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

In comparison, upgrading the IAF's 63 MiG-29 fighters presently underway in Russia was costing $964 million or a reasonable $15.3 million. The retrofit would render the MiG 29 from being an aerial interceptor and air dominance fighter to becoming a fighter-bomber capable of striking mobile and stationary targets on ground and at sea with high-precision weapons under all weather conditions.

Dassault officials, however, rationalised this huge upgrade cost by maintaining that the retrofitted fighters would provide IAF commanders the operational flexibility to commit fewer aircraft on combat missions for higher success rates, thereby rendering the programme cost effective.

Additionally, the upgraded electronic warfare systems, including radar warning receivers with instantaneous wide-bank receivers, electronic jammers and countermeasure systems and enhanced fuel capacity would keep the Mirage-2000Hs operationally relevant for over two decades.

Glass cockpits and helmet-mounted displays would complete the upgrade, in addition to arming them with Rafael Armament Development Authority's medium-range stand-off AGM-142 Raptor/Have Nap/Popeye air-to-surface launched cruise missile, specially configured for the IAF and codenamed "Crystal Maze" with an 80-100 km range. They would also be armed with MBDA's MICA, the anti-air multi-target, all weather, fire-and-forget short and medium-range missile systems.

The retrofit, which includes a Rs 30 billion proposal to augment the capabilities of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to retrofit 47 Mirage-2000Hs in Bangalore in as many months, after four were readied in France within 40 months of the deal being inked, would, doubtlessly enhance the Mirage-2000H's operational relevance but one which senior IAF officers believe makes little sense for such an astronomical price.
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/france-tries-to-tie-rafale-with-mirage-upgrade

 

[the rafter]

It also wouldn't included the new IRST, weapons pod, CFT, upgraded avionics etc. This means the Eurofighter, Rafale, SH, and Gripen are all on a level playing field, for the most part.

It could also be true about Eurofighter? Since the one tested in India during Flight Evaluation Test (FET) did not have any A to G capability (Tranche 1 & 2). A to G predicted to be incorporated in Tranche 3, Eurofighter is expensive, EJ2000 lost to GE for LCA engine and shortage of parts due to Euro-consortium funding.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

My brothers when will the result be out ?

 

[dbc]

LOL escorted by Mirage with targeting pods! Hilarious, without a doubt the funniest statement you ever made!

As I told you earlier, just open your eyes (and your highly biased mind) and you will see the facts! The Mirage 2000s carry targeting pods to guide the Paveway LGBs they carry as well. Rafale instead, carries AASM with GPS, or IR guidance, they don't need a targeting pod for guidance

Typical, you proved once again that you have the stamina and guile to convolute the discussion to cover up your repeated attempts to deceive the reader.

AASM kits are available in three version

SBU-38 GPS + INS (with CEP <10 meters)
SBU-54 GPS + INS + IR (with CEP of 1 to 5 meters)
SBU-64 GPS + INS + Laser (with CEP of 1 to 5 meters)

AASM - SBU-64 is laser guided and needs target designation and is the only AASM variant with the ability to strike a moving ground target (Libyan Air Force G-2/Galeb??). Weather or not the Rafale image from my earlier post was carrying a SBU-64 or some other AASM variant is irrelevant.

Try to stay focused, you claimed the Rafale went in unsupported on day 1 of the conflict. I established that it was accompanied by the Mirage 2000, so why does the Rafale deserve your praise and not the Mirage?

and more importantly, none of these fighters carries any EW pods!
Once again you proved that your speculations are totally baseless, congrats for that!

French Mirage 2000 carries a Dassault SABRE (Systeme de Autoprotection par BRouillage Electromagnetiques) jamming pod below the tail fin, the antenna is located just above exhaust nozzle.


Don't bother to reply you are now in my ignore list.