Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[sancho]

Reports about Aero India and bribery:

Defence contract: Dassault executive accused of bribery

NEW DEHLI:

The Indian Air Force has put on hold its dealings with the country manager of French defence firm Dassault Aviation for his role in the bribery scandal during the Aero India show in Bangalore.

P V Rao, country manager of Dassault Aviation – one of the leading contenders for an $11 billion Indian government contract for 126 fighter aircraft – had allegedly acceded to the demand for a Rs20,000 ($400) bribes from Indian Air Force Wing Commander A K Thakur for providing Dassault a favourable place at the Bangalore air show last month. The officer was caught by defence ministry officials...

...The officer was deployed there to oversee the arrangements at the static display area and mark positions for the aircraft there. The inquiry court will probe if Thakur had taken any money from other companies also and if there was involvement of anybody else in the whole episode.

A Dassault spokesman in Paris described Rao as merely a witness.

“Rao is not accused but he’s a witness for having
informed about an attempted shakedown during that
air-show,” the official added. (WITH ADDITIONAL REPORTING
FROM AFP)

Defence contract: Dassault executive accused of bribery – The Express Tribune


From a French news report (translated):

Dassault victim of a bizarre case in India

An attempted extortion of 300 euros threatens to derail the aircraft manufacturer in the tender New Delhi for the purchase of 126 fighter planes.

When we talk about below-the-table on arms deal, it is believed tens or hundreds of millions. Yet it is an attempt to extort money from 300 euros, which threatens to derail Dassault in the tender New Delhi for the purchase of 126 fighter planes.

Revealed by local media, this strange affair took place last month at the show in Bangalore. Dassault Rafale was presenting it hopes to bring in this huge market estimated at $ 7 billion. An official with the Air Force took the opportunity to ask Posin Rao, head of aircraft manufacturer in the country, a jar of wine from 20,000 rupees (314 euros!) To assign to the French aircraft a better location. Posin Rao have alerted the Department of Defense, which would have to take the corrupt official in flagrante delicto.

The paradox is that the Air Force, conducting an investigation, responded by "punishing" Dassault's local manager is now banned from any contact with Indian officials, which prevented him from continuing the negotiations. Contacted by Les Echos, Posin Rao has merely indicated that he "did his job honestly." At the headquarters of the manufacturer, which is following the matter closely, we are assured they had received no official indication of the Indian authorities that the police chief in New Delhi would be persona non grata in the tender.

In the industrial and French soldiers, the case with dismay. While the Indian Air Force assured the contrary, professionals fear of serious repercussions. "The case is sufficient to discredit the company, says one of them for which the opponents of Dassault will draw party. Especially since the story takes place in a political context leaded by major corruption scandals. It falls even more evil than France has been waiting a long time now that New Delhi sign the contract for upgrading the 50 Mirage 2000.

Dassault victim of a bizarre case in India

 

[sancho]

Rafales deployed in Libya:

In air policing mission with 3 x supersonic fuel tanks (1250l) and 6 x MICA missiles

In strike mission with 2 x subsonic fuel tanks (2000l) and 4 x 500lb AASM PGMs with GPS guidance and 4 x MICA missiles

In deep penetration strike missions with 2 x subsonic fuel tanks (2000l), 1 x Scalp cruise missile and 4 x MICA missiles

In recon mission with 2 x subsonic fuel tanks (2000l), 1 x Recon NG pod and 6 x MICA missiles

Same mission, same config, performed by Rafale M carrier versions

 

[dbc]

Libya : French air operations begin

Just shows how mistaken you are and that you have not a single point here, French fighters officially was the first to engage combats, while B2s was officially the first US aircrafts. As usual you are just speculating and ignoring the facts that the Growlers was not present at that time and not in such missions (air policing and recon)!

This is getting boring, you said that the Rafale was able to operate independently without EW support from other French or coalition assets. I have seen no evidence to support your claim, every military press release or photograph I've seen so far show a mixed formation of Mirage 2000 and Rafale.

Avec la chasse Française en vol vers la Libye : un reportage de Thomas Goisque

Growler @ Aviano, Italy, Saturday, March 19, 2011

http://newshopper.sulekha.com/italy-nato-libya_photo_1752180.htm

The fact that Rafale was used to enter their airspace before CM strikes and without dedicated EW aircrafts like the F18 Growlers, showes the capability of SPECTRA and that the French forces are more than confident about it. The opponent fighters might not be an issue and they have no AWACS either, but the ground radars and SAMs are a threat for any fighter, that's why the US deployed the Growlers and F16 CJs, or UK used their Tornados, to have capable protection in SEAD, although they are using anti radiation missiles from longer range.
In terms of RCS you also have to keep in mind, that the Rafales so far were deployed from bases in France, that's why they had to carry so many fuel tanks, which obviously increased the RCS.

 

[sancho]

UAE confirms sending 12 F-16s for missions in Libya

The UAE will send 12 fighters to support the international coalition with a mission to protect civilians from attacks by the forces of Colonel Gaddafi in Libya.

Os Emirados Árabes Unidos serão o segundo país árabe a enviar aeronaves para o apoio à coalizão após o Catar ter enviado caças Mirage 2000 e aeronaves de transporte para uma das bases aéreas no Mediterrâneo. The UAE will be the second Arab country to send aircraft to support coalition after Qatar have sent Mirage 2000 fighter jets and transport aircraft for an air bases in the Mediterranean.

As operações militares na Líbia estão sendo conduzidas por 13 nações até o momento, incluindo Estados Unidos, Reino Unido, Holanda, Canadá, França e Bélgica. Military operations in Libya are being conducted by 13 nations so far, including the United States, United Kingdom, Netherlands, Canada, France and Belgium. As aeronaves da forças conjuntas já realizaram mais de 300 surtidas sobre o norte da África e dispararam mais de 162 mísseis Tomahawk na missão das Nações Unidas. The aircraft of the joint forces have made more than 300 sorties over northern Africa and fired over 162 Tomahawk missiles at the United Nations mission.

Emirados Árabes Unidos confirma envio de 12 caças F-16 para missões na Líbia

 

[sancho]

This is getting boring, you said that the Rafale was able to operate independently without EW support from other French or coalition assets. I have seen no evidence to support your claim, every military press release or photograph I've seen so far show a mixed formation of Mirage 2000 and Rafale.

True it's getting boring to hear the same lame speculations from people that have no arguments!

How about open your eyes and checking the load configs of the Mirage 2000 in your own pic? A targeting pod, paveway II LGBs and MICAs missiles, where do you see EW pods? Rafale in the same pic with AASM PGMs with GPS guidance.

Here is another (Mirage 2000-5 with 3 x fuel tanks and 6 x MICAs):

Any EW pods?

This might help you to understand why you don't see anything like that:

2 Mirage 2000-5 - Air Defense
2 Mirage 2000D - CAS

Just to make it a bit more interesting, why don't YOU provide a proof that the Growlers supported the Rafales in these early missions?

 

[SpArK]

 

[dbc]

True it's getting boring to hear the same lame speculations from people that have no arguments!

How about open your eyes and checking the load configs of the Mirage 2000 in your own pic? A targeting pod, paveway II LGBs and MICAs missiles, where do you see EW pods? Rafale in the same pic with AASM PGMs with GPS guidance.

Here is another (Mirage 2000-5 with 3 x fuel tanks and 6 x MICAs):


Any EW pods?

This might help you to understand why you don't see anything like that:

Just to make it a bit more interesting, why don't YOU provide a proof that the Growlers supported the Rafales in these early missions?

I'm not the one making $hit up dear you are

You said the Rafale operated unsupported by French or coalition aircraft's - prove it! We know it was escorted by the Mirage carrying targeting PODs for the Rafale, we have wonderful pictures taken by Thomas Goisque as proof. You said the Growler was no where near Libya on 19 March, I showed you a picture of the Growler in Italy on the same day.

Any EW pods?

Now you tell me the Mirage 2000 was not carrying EW PODS, I'm surprised the captain of the Dassault cheer leading squad can't locate the jammer on the Mirage 2000. Keep this up and your sponsor will take away your spankies

 

[SpArK]

Libya: The Rafale shoot Scalp cruise missiles​

The French operations in Libya took yesterday, a new twist. No longer content to operate only around Benghazi, the Air Force and Navy aircraft were involved in the night of March 23 to 24 in a raid against a military forces of Colonel Gaddafi, located about 250 km south of the Libyan coast. The attack, led by two and two Mirage 2000 Rafale left France, and two Rafale catapulted from the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle saw the implementation of Scalp EG cruise missiles. That is, a priori, the first time that the French army shall, in operation, this precision munition with a range of about 500 km. Designed by MBDA Scalp is also used by the Royal Air Force, where he is known as Storm Shadow. The missile appears to have been deployed elsewhere in Libya at the weekend by the British Tornado. For France, the adoption of this new weapon was made possible by the commissioning in late 2009, the Rafale F3 standard. Operation Harmattan is, it must still be emphasized (even if it does not say too strong), the opportunity for the French fighter aircraft to give the full measure of its versatility and its new building (including the Reco NG pod and pod Damocles). The regime in Tripoli, who thought until recently to purchase 14 Rafale of France, has probably been measuring the effectiveness of aircraft that, by chance, he will never.

Destruction of a Libyan plane by a French raid

For yesterday, nearly two dozen French aircraft participated in Operation Harmattan. Apart from the assault that involved the Scalp, a reconnaissance mission was conducted by a patrol Rafale Air Force. Four interdiction missions have also been conducted by two and four Mirage 2000D Rafale Air Force and joint patrols by two Rafale / Modernised Super Etendard (SEM) of the Navy. These aircraft outweighed Armaments Modular Air-Ground (AASM), GBU 12 bombs and missiles air-air Mica. During these missions, AWACS radar plane detected the coalition aircraft in the area Misratah, 200 kilometers east of Tripoli. A patrol Mirage 2000 and Rafale French air patrol went on scene and confirmed the presence of a fighter aircraft that operated in violation of UN resolution 1973 (authorizing the establishment of an exclusion zone Air PPUR protect civilians in areas held by the rebels). The patrol conducted a Rafale strike air-ground, with AASM, while the fighter forces of Colonel Gaddafi had just landed at the military airbase of Misratah. To conduct these missions, combat aircraft lights were supported by tankers and C135 E3F AWACS left France and an aerial watch Hawkeye aircraft Rafale and dedicated in-flight refueling from the carrier battle group.

Mer et Marine : Toute l'actualité maritime

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

You guys debating in this thread have unlimited patience .its almost abnormal ,LOL . Anyways kudos to you guys .

 

[kingdurgaking]

Of course I can't, because it's just a made up scenario that you came up with and you can't prove for the MKI either, because it don't has such pylons. The point is, there is no reason why the MKI should be able to carry them and the EF can not and that's what you ignore. That's why I said, don't just speculate and made up arguments for the MKI, stay on facts that can be compared on equal and rational basis, anything else simply don't make sense and makes a discussion pointless!

the fact that i have mentioned is put on wiki and number of websites which stated that the hard point can be increased to 14 with MER which you dont able to eat it... can you show in EFT specs it can?? which i am asking you?? and i havent speculated anything.. everthing is just by facts from different source .. similarly you are arguing it can why not EFT?? which i am telling oke it can show me the source thats it.. i have already posted a pic in earlier where you commented saying what is your point?? which had MER in the center pylong...

Your point that MKI can do so EFT can do.. oke let us assume it can do... can i go and argue that it can carry 8ton with MER on all hard points?? will you agree? you will ask for a source right?? i am also asking for a source for EFT.... so far i have not seen MKI carrying 14 and i agree and i havent seen EFT carrying more than 8 AAM.. which you wont agree...(not sure why?)...

That's what I did from the start, when I showed you official Sukhoi specs to counter you wrong assumptions about payload and MTOW. That's what I did when I calculted the TWR and fuel fractions in different load configs, to prove that the EF is better in both. That's what I did when I even showed you pics proving that the EF has more wingstations, that can carry a higher weight and that they could carry your hypothetical multi pylons. So my points are backed up quiet well don't you think?

oke my hypothetical pylon is written like this

12 hardpoints: 2 × wing-tip AAM launch rails, 6 × pylons under-wing, 2 × pylon under-engine nacelle, and 2 × pylons in tandem in the "arch" between the engines. It can be increased to 14 using multiple ejector racks. It can carry up to 8 tonnes of external stores.

source : wikie
Sukhoi Su-30 MKI + some sources

when i asked show me the same hypothetical pylon for EFT to shut my mouth... you came back saying it is not your work... oke let us assume MKI has got 12 hard points only.... it can load on all 12 hard points and go and target 1000 km away... can the EFT load all 13 hardpoints and go 1000 km and target?? bolo?

.... when you showed the specs from Sukohoi i agreed... i didnt counter on it.. But i also showed the same for EFT proving it is not 0.4 but 0.3 less than MKI
http://www.eurofighter.com/fileadmin/web_data/downloads/extpub/01_F22Article_EF_World.pdf
and you came back saying it is calculated with external tanks.. which i didnt disagree.. i said EFT need external tanks to survive which is not the same for MKI which you are not able to digest and coming back saying you dont need to prove anything.. when you gave a point and i showed the link countering it you are just reitering the same not giving a proof for your argument..

The Elta jamming pods are carried externally and were not deployed on any exercises, just like our Mirage, or Jags had to carry these pods on external stations, while latest fighters like EF, Rafale, or Su 35, integrate them into EW pods. Rafale carries them on the tail fin, EF and Su 35 on the wingtips. Sudhir posted a pic of an MKI model, with new EW features from DARE, which included the ECM wingtippods of the Su 35 as well and that leaves 10 hardpoints for missiles. Btw, the RAF EFs in Libya still has 1 centerline station and inner wingstations left, which are not loaded on the pic.

[/QUOTE]
As per jamming & EW i remembered it was carried externally.. and latter was moved internal.. i am not sure when i read the news.. but it was long back... it also mentioned only Mig-27 will still host outside while Tejas and rest will be moved inside.... well EFT never carried any weapons in the center pylong.. it was only a wetted hardpoint from day one...

 

[SpArK]

Good read

The Role of the Eurofighter | SLDInfo

 

[SpArK]

France promotes the French Rafale aircraft in attacks on Libya
​

Air military intervention launched on Saturdayz March 19 in Libya by an international coalition offers a great opportunity to show in action that French fighter Rafale Dassault Paris and the manufacturer tried to sell, so far without success, to several countries, among them Brazil .
On Saturday, eight Rafale flew over the sky Libya to establish an air exclusion zone in compliance with a Security Council resolution, UN to protect civilians from the military offensive of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi. On Sunday there were six.


All carried out reconnaissance missions and / or attack. Eight other equipment are on board the French nuclear carrier "Charles de Gaulle" on Sunday sailed to Libya.

Libya 'may be a way to advertise the Rafale through experience in combat, "summed up Jean Pierre Maulny Monday, deputy director of the Institute of International and Strategic Relations (IRIS) in charge of defense and security issues.
"Although the Rafale is already involved in Afghanistan, this conflict is not popular. And so, manufacturers are hesitant to report the material "displayed in certain war zones, he said.


Technological success, business failure

Considered a success of French technology, the Rafale is, however, a commercial failure because France never achieved export.
However, in early February, the CEO of Dassault Aviation, Charles Edelstenne, said that the Rafale was likely to be sold in eight countries.
The Rafale is at stake since 2009 in Brazil by a multimillion contract for the sale of 36 fighter jets for which competes with the F/A-18 Super Hornet from Boeing and the Swedish Saab Gripen NG.

As for "fact" by French President Nicolas Sarkozy in September 2009, although no document was ever signed, Brazil has announced weeks ago that postponed its decision for budgetary reasons.

Since 2008, France in talks to sell 60 aircraft to the UAE.

The Rafale, a twin-engine bomber designed in the 80's, capable of air-attack missions and air-sea ground reconnaissance or nuclear attack, which costs about 50 million euros (70 million), was also proposed to India , Kuwait, Switzerland, Greece, and even ... Libya.
So far, all were unsuccessful.

Libya "will help us sell," says a French director who requested anonymity.


"A conflict can truly demonstrate the ability of a device. From this point of view, Libya represents a technological showcase, "said Christophe Menard, an analyst at Kepler Capital Markets.
The real test "will add gallons to the honor roll of the airplane, provided you do not miss any device," he said.


As the French accompany the Qatari aircraft participating in the coalition will be easier to convince potential buyers, experts add.
"A fighter always sell better if it has been confirmed 'unfit for combat'," said a source close to Dassault Aviation before explaining that the "best example" was the Mirage 3 used by Israel during the Six Day War days in June 1967.


At that time "showed this capacity (of action) which became a worldwide bestseller," recalled the source.

In Libya the situation is different because the Rafale aircraft does not face the same level "but the mere fact that this aircraft has entered the area the same Saturday Libyan air without previous bombing of the Libyan air defenses, shows confidence in this device (which can have) all those who are interested in this airplane, "said the source.
Dassault Aviation spokesman, Stephane Fort, stressed the "versatility" of the Rafale, which distinguishes for example the Boeing F-18, U.S. President, Barack Obama, defended this weekend in Brazil, which can only be configured for one mission at a time and that before taking off, recalled.




Fuente: Francia promociona el avión Rafale francés durante ataques a Libia | BalboaRadio.com Francia promociona el avión Rafale francés durante ataques a Libia | BalboaRadio.com

 

[SpArK]

RNoAF F-16 began flying missions with air to ground weapons fit over Libya yesterday, with missions last night as well.

From first mission departure yesterday​

 

[SpArK]

 

[SpArK]

Libya: French aviation destroyed five planes; two helicopters​

ennahar 26 March, 2011 11:53:00
image

French fighter planes in Misrata (200 km east of Tripoli) have destroyed "at least" five Galeb fighter planes and two combat helicopters MI-35 of forces loyal to Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, said on Saturday the staff of the French armies.

In the last 24 hours, said the staff in the evening on its website, "French aircraft have carried out several strikes in the regions of Zintan and Misrata.
According to "the first observations," he adds, these strikes have destroyed "in Misrata at least five Galeb combat planes and at least two combat helicopters MI-35 preparing to conduct operations in the region."

Ennaharonline/ M. O.


Ennahar Online - Libya: French aviation destroyed five planes; two helicopters