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Gripen is like Swiss knife.

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Can do so many Work but can't do any of them vary well........

Few Major Disadvantage...

1) More then 40% out side technology .

2) It can not Offer 100% tot plus it have nothing Superb, that it can offer over other contender.

3) It will Carry less Weapon at Less range then any other Fighter in competition

4) Similar to LCA Block 2

Give fund and some more time to Our LCA Block-2 and It will be as potent as Gripen
 
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Does anyone here have any info regarding the followings...?
1. Production rate of typhoon....? Already so many orders... Will it affect us...?
2. Production rate of Gripen...? I really have no idea about it...

Shed some light plz...


thats not gonna make a diffrence cos we a re only goona get 17 of them i am talking about euro fighter ..the rest of them are gonna be build in india..with tot buy hal....the same applies to the othere contenders...:agree::agree:
 
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still here we are same as in 2007 . god bless politcs game plan.
 
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Thanks JHA bhai for that info

I hope IAF evaluation team when reaches Sweden after this volcano ash settles down as they are stranded in midway , get to fire METEOR on Gripen . That would be just the final impetus that would seal deal in favour of Swedes.
Hi Prateek, the Meteor is still only under development and is not a Gripen weapon only, of course EF and Rafale aswell as Tornado and Mirage 2000 of several European Air Forces will get them to instead of the US AMRAAM, or MICA EM.
If it turns out as good as claimed, it will give the European fighters a clear advantage in A2A compared to F16IN, F18SH, or Mig 35, because of long missile range and not to forget lower RCS of the European fighters. With our threat environment, there should be no doubt that we need that missile to maintain an edge in BVR.
I still prefer the Rafale/Meteor combo for IAF and IN!
 
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Sancho , Good to see you back

Yeah actually its not Gripen specific .
But the implementation of integration is to be done in phases in Europe
It is Gripen then Eurofighter and Rafale at last in that order , date fixed for Rafale is near 2015. So that way its a liitle late.

rafale is a very good bird , no doubt .
But only negative point is its Engine low thrust and extremely high price , now just got news in my mail that M88-E4 just being tested on Rafale . But i think they have missed the bus when IAF evaluation took place whatever was present in aircraft is to be taken as final configuration. SAAB acted smart and got permission form IAF to send apart from c/d version full and final Gripen NG . That is a smart move that can tilt favour in SAAB favour.

Don know how 120D vs Meteor will fare.

Just a piece of information i would like to share - Few weeks back , had a chat with Instructor in air-force at a Party in Officers Mess. He also worked with Tejas team .
Info i got that engine F404IN on Tejas is very impressive and has left everyone in IAF stunned . During one of flying phases it flew from Banglore to Jaiselmer and Fuel consumption was so less that it was described as Engines only taste fuel even when afterburners are on.
Releated to MRCA - Info is bit disappointing but imp one , IAF would be on getting plane with commonality with existing inventory
Another thing was related to Cope India Exercise - cant share that , but It has left my chest several inches expanded so i think you can guess ???????
 
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Anything related to EJ 200...?
Or with the typhoon itself ? Hope thr's a really good news behind it...
 
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still here we are same as in 2007 . god bless politcs game plan.

I came to learn that in big defence deals 3-4 years are like nothing. However, I hope I can see the deal finalised soon. Can't wait to change my pc wallpaper with new Indian warbird :D
 
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what about the eurofighter guys remember it's the best on offer and things like such are bought every day ...... not to be concerned about the price see the future implications of this bird if chosen the main thing is the ej200 which is supercruise enabled if gone into lca it could do wonders
 
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Sancho , Good to see you back

Yeah actually its not Gripen specific .
But the implementation of integration is to be done in phases in Europe
It is Gripen then Eurofighter and Rafale at last in that order , date fixed for Rafale is near 2015. So that way its a liitle late.

Thx, was simply too busy for the last weeks with my new house and there is still a lot of work to do, so I still can't online so often as usual.

Regarding the Meteor and Gripen you are mistaken. The Meteor missile is a joint project and theintegration is to be done in phases yes, but not like you think. The first flight test with Meteor on EF and Rafale has been done from 2003 on. The EF tested it from land bases, the Rafale even from the French CdG carrier (I posted pics here before). Gripen was only the first to fire it, but as soon as the missile is operational, it will be available for all 3 fighters at the same time. Also don't forget that MBDA is main company behind it and Swe is not part of it, they only joint the development to get the missile for the Gripen too. The key players behind it are France, UK, Germany and Italy.

But only negative point is its Engine low thrust and extremely high price , now just got news in my mail that M88-E4 just being tested on Rafale . But i think they have missed the bus when IAF evaluation took place whatever was present in aircraft is to be taken as final configuration. SAAB acted smart and got permission form IAF to send apart from c/d version full and final Gripen NG . That is a smart move that can tilt favour in SAAB favour.

I agree with you regarding the price of the Rafale, but not completelly to the thrust. There was reports about tests in UAE, where it showed not sufficient thrust in hot conditions, but on the other side, in these same conditions the Rafale F3 was able to prove it's manouverability in WVR combats against nothing less than the F22. It was reported that the F22 was only able to kill the Rafale 1 time in 6 engagements and all others went to draw. So if the Rafale would be underpowered, how did it managed that?
Many people check the specs of Rafale and see 75kN afterburner thrust, which of course is very low. But keep in mind that the Rafale is a twin engine figher and take it's empty weight to account too!

7,1t and 98kN for the Gripen
8,9t and 144kN for the F16
9t empty and 2 x 75kN for the Rafale
11t and 2 x 90kN for EF
12t or more and 2 x 90kN for the Mig 35
15t and 2 x 98kN for the F18SH

It might be true that the 90kN engine that the UAE wants would be better in hot climates, but you shouldn't underestemate the t/w ratio of the Rafale. Also keep in mind that they offered to integrate the Kaveri-Snecma engine which is aimed at 90, or more kN, so that problem (if it is one) could turn out to be a favour for us. It could be the only way to use Kaveri engine in a fighter in this decade, because it seems that LCA won't get it anymore and MCA is not even close to be real.

Funny that you see it as a smart move of Saab to send the Gripen C/D, because I think it was nothing else than desperation, because it shows how far Saab really is in the development of the Gripen NG. Nearly all techs in the prototype are only under integration and testing stage, not a single serial fighter is out now and the chances for delays are not that small. Saab had to send the C/D to do at least the weapon trials, because the C/D version couldn't show anything else to IAF. If IAF and MoD would have gone strictly by the time frames they set, they had to disqualify the Gripen NG, because it could only come 1 month delayed.
The US fighters and the Rafale are the only fighters in the competition that came to India with all techs and capabilities that are on offer, so don't you think that will impress IAF more, than unproven capabilities of prototypes like Gripen NG, Mig 35, or even the EF without AESA ready yet?

At the end the requirements of IAF/MoD will decide which fighter will be bought. If A2G, less delays, commonality to present fleet, as much ToT and customisatzion as possible is important, then you hardly find a better choice than the Rafale. If cost are the main points and the similarity in design and roles to LCA, as well as delays in Mig 21 replacement doesn't matter, the Gripen NG is the best choice.
 
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what about the eurofighter guys remember it's the best on offer and things like such are bought every day ...... not to be concerned about the price see the future implications of this bird if chosen the main thing is the ej200 which is supercruise enabled if gone into lca it could do wonders
In short, development is too delayed, it is only the best in the same role that the MKI and FGFA will do in IAF, for anything else it is not at the moment, LCA engine deal is delinked from MMRCA, so we can buy the engine, but a different fighter in MMRCA too and there is no navy version available anytime soon.

Sad, but that's the way it is!
 
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well , look price is not gonna be issue , whatever info i have from the insiders even though this whole Testing has been very secret and apart from core team no one has clue about it.
What IAF is banking is, that handing over list of three Top performing Jets only , Now if they select Rafale , Eurofighter , F18 as top performing jets which wont be a surprise considering they are best of the lot.
It dosen't leave MoD much of the choice to decide by their "Cheap is best theory" so this price theory is out . IAF will pick only three fighters of six which meet or exceed their req.

Regarding Engine - Dassault have promoted Rafale having speed more than 1 Mach without afterburner , now with meaningful load i doubt 75KN*2 is enough to give that . Clean config is diff isuue .
When you talk of advantage this Supercruise + short take off + hot refueling + Fast Data links +Low operational cost are some of the things that might just give advantage to a jet , and IAF would definately have a good look at that.

This brings me to an important issue - Operational cost of Rafale , this has been a secret considring no other force in world operates them . But some French and Brazil blogs are quick to point high costs of Rafale .

Regarding the Meteor and Gripen you are mistaken. The Meteor missile is a joint project and theintegration is to be done in phases yes, but not like you think. The first flight test with Meteor on EF and Rafale has been done from 2003 on. The EF tested it from land bases, the Rafale even from the French CdG carrier (I posted pics here before). Gripen was only the first to fire it, but as soon as the missile is operational, it will be available for all 3 fighters at the same time. Also don't forget that MBDA is main company behind it and Swe is not part of it, they only joint the development to get the missile for the Gripen too. The key players behind it are France, UK, Germany and Italy.
As far as Meteor is concerned when IAF visited Sweden , Gripen team showed them Live Meteor firing as was reported by Vishnu som .
Not sure abt Rafale doing that same ,
Might wanna look at some recent Janes's article report - available on blog
http://www.gripenindia.com/2010/04/meteor-on-gripen-now-has-go-to-war.html

Imp Extracts-
"Saab became involved in the Meteor programme as early as 2003, when Saab Bofors Dynamics was awarded a contract to develop and produce the prototype of the missile. The same year, Saab Aerosystems was awarded a contract for the integration of Meteor on the Gripen. Saab therefore plays a key and prominent role within the Meteor programme.

Gripen is the first and so far only fighter aircraft which has air-launched the Meteor missile. The first Air Launched Demonstration firing took place in 2006.

While the UK is leading the Meteor development programme, all airborne test work to date has used Swedish assets because of a series of delays with other intended test platforms, chiefly the Eurofighter Typhoon. The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) has now acknowledged a previously unreported Meteor firing that took place in 2009. An MoD statement to Jane's said the test "was was conducted on 3 June 2009 from a Gripen aircraft against a Mirach subscale target at the Hebrides range. This firing successfully tested the ability of the missile to acquire and track a target at low altitude with a sea clutter background. This was the first trial using the pre-production standard of hardware
".

To date six Meteor firings have been acknowledged since May 2006 - all undertaken by Saab Gripens.

This also brings about BVR missile into question . All others have either Aim120 or R77 as BVR but Mica is still short legged on rafale when our adversary are firing AIM120 / PL12- SD10 / SD13 / R77

And on to choice of MRCA - I think MRCA wiil also give an indication of role of su30 in IAF , if a jet like F18 or rafale is chosen ,i thnk it will retain its status of out and out air-superiority fighter.
But my guess is seeing integration of Brahmos+Nirbhay on MKI we could very well see a multi-role jet with more of air-sup asset and superior flight performance giving escort to mki in war .
Something like Eurofighter ,Mig35 , Gripen fit that role perfectly.
For me personally , all are good jets best in the arsenal of each country , anyone selected can beat each-other there is no clear winner .
I would though love to see Gripen in IAF colours.

And Sancho regarding that Rafale vs F22 , i dont really look at DACT exercise as a Jet vs Jet ( who has better toy thing) .
DACT exercise are more about Tactics and operational workout + collaboration among friendly forces .
I dont know how 2 Eurofighter smashed 15F-15 , or how Rafale beat F22 6 times or more recently 1 gripen beat 10 su35 . Frankly it all looks like self-boasting thing.

And yes one thing i missed in last post which surprised me most -
Talking to that officer i came to know whom IAF sees as the top of the pack air-force . Its the French - guess what i always thought it would be either Israel or USAF but French never crossed my thought.
really surprising considering they are not that experienced
 
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i found some detail of per flight operating cost in BR

cost per flight hour
F-16 around $6000
EF around 14000 euros
Rafale: $16,000
F/A-18E: $10,000
Gripen: $4,500

It seem that Rafale operating cost is higher and Gripen become lowest
 
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Not surprised to see higher operating cost of Twin engined fighters but Rafale having highest is a bit surprising .
Marketing its Rafale jet Dassault always pointed out low operating cost by your post looks oppposite.
F18 must admit is very good at 10,000 considering its a naval fighter and requires much more operation .
Would be nice if we have operational cost of su30,Mig29 and Mirage2000 for comparison.

@ Sudhir - BTW any source or link for your data ????????
 
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Not surprised to see higher operating cost of Twin engined fighters but Rafale having highest is a bit surprising .
Marketing its Rafale jet Dassault always pointed out low operating cost by your post looks oppposite.
F18 must admit is very good at 10,000 considering its a naval fighter and requires much more operation .
Would be nice if we have operational cost of su30,Mig29 and Mirage2000 for comparison.

@ Sudhir - BTW any source or link for your data ????????
Sorry dnt have any source of i read this information in a keypublishing fourm

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