Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[BON PLAN]

Can anybody explain me what is this ??

It's Not Broken, The Open Rotor Turbine Is Supposed to Look Like That

This is not a broken turboprop engine. It's a new radical new aircraft engine design by French engine manufacturer Snecma, one that will forgo the traditional bypass system and remove the engine ducting altogether while reducing fuel consumption, greenhouse gas emissions, and engine noise.

Modern aircraft engines rely nearly exclusively on turbofan technology, which allows a portion of its incoming air to bypass the engine's combustion chamber and generate additional thrust when expelled with hot, compressed exhaust gases. However, the prototype engine above completely does away with the ducting found on conventional engines, instead allowing the counter-rotating fans to spin in open air.

"An aircraft engine's efficiency and consumption depend on the amount of air the fans draw and eject at slow speeds," Snecma Research & Technology Director Pierre Guillaume said in a press statement. "With the open rotor, we will be able to considerably increase that drawn air flow because we won't have any ducting around the fans. And that will improve consumption and cut CO2 emissions." What's more, the current 1:5 scale prototype engine is already testing at 10 dB below the noise levels of conventional engines, about what CFM's LEAP engines currently produce.


The Snecma team expects to have a full-size prototype ready for bench testing by 2015 and plans to install it for flight testing on an A380 by early 2019. Should the program continue without any major setbacks, Sneca hopes to begin commercial production of the open fan engines by 2030. Can't wait to see how these handle bird strikes. [Defense Update - Image: Sneca]

Is it the last M88 XX engine for Rafale ?

it's a joke.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

@Picdelamirand-oil

Quelle candeur! No disrespect at all for the engineer, mon bon monsieur ( /my good sir )
but I don't believe in zero-zero-zero upgrades. My religion forbids it!
Same cost, same lifetime, same use but better performances? Same Bu[[sh1t, you mean?
That never happens in the real customer world.

Now, I trust Safran the engine maker entirely ... but Safran the goods peddler? Not so much!

Availability, no problem but ISO-everything?

This is because you argues with constant technology

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Some pain here ↓↓

India Buys French Fighter Jets—With a Whopping Pricetag

India has agreed to buy a slew of advanced fighter jets from France. The deal, worth $8.8 billion, will provide India with 36 Rafale multi-role fighters for a staggering average cost of $244 million each.

The Dassault Rafale was conceived in the early 1980s to be one multi-role fighter that could replace six different fighter and attack aircraft. The plane is almost completely French, with fuselage, avionics, engines and weapons all made in that country. Rafales have flown in combat in Afghanistan, Libya, Mail and Iraq. France operates 140 Rafales including the Rafale M, a navy version of the fighter featuring strengthened landing gear and a tail hook for use on aircraft carriers.

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Although relatively small compared to planes like the Eurofighter Typhoon and F-22 Raptor, Rafale packs a powerful punch. Twelve wing-mounted hard points can carry a combination of air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, sensors, and drop tanks. Despite the fact that the Rafale is now a 30-year-old design, upgrades such as the RBE2 AA active electronic scanning array (AESA) radar, Damocles targeting pod, Meteor air-to-air missiles, and SCALP cruise missiles have kept the design competitive with other so-called "4+ generation" fighters.

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Still, $244 million per aircraft is a lot of money. Why does Rafale cost so much? Exchange rates almost certainly play a role. And in addition to the plane itself, there's also a need for support and maintenance equipment and munitions. Part of the problem with Rafale is that aside from Paveway laser-guided bombs, it uses mostly French weapons that are incompatible with the rest of India's stockpile.

India is only the third international customer for Rafale. While the fighter has been on the market for decades, Rafale's first overseas sale happened just recently when Qatar bought 24 planes and Egypt followed shortly thereafter. Rafale will be a strong candidate to replace Canada's aging F/A-18 Hornet fighters when those need to retire.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...2efd&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

The Dassault Rafale was conceived in the early 1980s to be one multi-role fighter that could replace six different fighter and attack aircraft. The plane is almost completely French, with fuselage, avionics, engines and weapons all made in that country.

In the early 1980 the only plane that was conceived was the Rafale A which was a demonstrator whithout weapon system, unable to replace six different fighter

Although relatively small compared to planes like the Eurofighter Typhoon and F-22 Raptor, Rafale packs a powerful punch. Twelve wing-mounted hard points can carry a combination of air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, sensors, and drop tanks.

Rafale B and C provide fourteen wing-mounted hard points and Rafale M provide thirteen wing-mounted hard points.

Despite the fact that the Rafale is now a 30-year-old design, upgrades such as the RBE2 AA active electronic scanning array (AESA) radar, Damocles targeting pod, Meteor air-to-air missiles, and SCALP cruise missiles have kept the design competitive with other so-called "4+ generation" fighters.

By this metric F-35 is a 20-year-old design:

• on 21 April 1988, the French government awarded Dassault a contract for four Rafale prototypes
• The JSF development contract was signed on 16 November 1996

Still, $244 million per aircraft is a lot of money.

It's mostly an absurd way to calculate a price

Why does Rafale cost so much? Exchange rates almost certainly play a role. And in addition to the plane itself, there's also a need for support and maintenance equipment and munitions. Part of the problem with Rafale is that aside from Paveway laser-guided bombs, it uses mostly French weapons that are incompatible with the rest of India's stockpile.

Rafale is compatible with NATO standards which means that the integration of any NATO weapons is very easy for countries that prefer weapons that are not French.

India is only the third international customer for Rafale. While the fighter has been on the market for decades,

The Rafale is on the market for only a decade. The export is not possible as long as the aircraft is not used in its country of origin and the true introduction of the Rafale was in 2006 in the French Air Force. The Navy introduction in 2001 was with a draft version to fill an urgent need for our aircraft carrier. This version could not be considered for export.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

In the early 1980 the only plane that was conceived was the Rafale A which was a demonstrator whithout weapon system, unable to replace six different fighter


Rafale B and C provide fourteen wing-mounted hard points and Rafale M provide thirteen wing-mounted hard points.


By this metric F-35 is a 20-year-old design:

• on 21 April 1988, the French government awarded Dassault a contract for four Rafale prototypes
• The JSF development contract was signed on 16 November 1996

It's mostly an absurd way to calculate a price


Rafale is compatible with NATO standards which means that the integration of any NATO weapons is very easy for countries that prefer weapons that are not French.


The Rafale is on the market for only a decade. The export is not possible as long as the aircraft is not used in its country of origin and the true introduction of the Rafale was in 2006 in the French Air Force. The Navy introduction in 2001 was with a draft version to fill an urgent need for our aircraft carrier. This version could not be considered for export.

Sir the author of this article is followed by the Twitter handle of Rolls Royce. That just gives the reason behind this....

Lots of pain. And a lot of green envy too

 

[The Eagle]

Rafale sale not complete: Parrikar after BJP’s ‘deal finalised’ tweet

• PTI, New Delhi
• Updated: Apr 21, 2016 13:52 IST

Sources said the price for 36 Rafales, as per the UPA tender, keeping the cost escalation and dollar rate in mind, comes to a little over Rs 65,000 crore. (Dassault Rafale)
Also Read | All about Rafale deal: India-France negotiations in final stages

Defence ministry sources had earlier said the deal was at an advanced stage and both India and France had narrowed down their differences over the pricing issue.

“I can only tell you this much that while the deal is in quite an advanced stage, and we intent to close it quite soon, I still can’t say that negotiations are totally cleared until we sign the deal or at least the deal is forwarded to the Cabinet for approval,” Parrikar told reporters in New Delhi.

The deal is expected to be finalised by May end. India has been bargaining hard with France over the pricing of the 36 fighter planes, a deal that was announced first by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in April 2015.

The cost of the 36 Rafales, as per the earlier tender while keeping the cost escalation into account, comes to around Rs 65,000 crore.

Also Read | Rafale deal in ‘final stage’; France, India narrow down differences

India has been bargaining for a price that is less than 8 billion Euro (Rs 59,000 crore).

“The deal to buy 36 state-of-the-art Rafale aircraft from France at 12 billion dollar (Rs 80000 crore) was re-negotiated and finalised at 8.8 billion dollar (around Rs 59000 crore),” the BJP tweet had said.

The government “saved” public money and the deal resulted in gain of “technological knowledge” and “strengthening the air power to defend the border”, it had said.

Also Read |Pace of Rafale deal ‘not enough’: Manohar Parrikar

 

[Abingdonboy]

Has anyone said is closed? There is still no contract signature and what the DM is saying is clearly technically correct:

“I can only tell you this much that while the deal is in quite an advanced stage, and we intent to close it quite soon, I still can’t say that negotiations are totally cleared until we sign the deal or at least the deal is forwarded to the Cabinet for approval,” Parrikar told reporters in New Delhi.

For any deal to be signed it needs to be cleared by the CCS- this is the final stage and after that the deal is signed and funds released. But this is a mere formality so if the main hurdle (ToT/Cost) is resolved then the CCS approval can come anytime.

Just got to cross a few Ts and dot a few Is now.

 

[The Eagle]

Has anyone said is closed? There is still no contract signature and what the DM is saying is clearly technically correct:


For any deal to be signed it needs to be cleared by the CCS- this is the final stage and after that the deal is signed and funds released. But this is a mere formality so if the main hurdle (ToT/Cost) is resolved then the CCS approval can come anytime.

Just got to cross a few Ts and dot a few Is now.

I merely shared a news stating that the deal is not yet finalized though no such word CLOSED is expressed nor intended to share in same contexts. What is your point here?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I merely shared a news stating that the deal is not yet finalized though no such word CLOSED is expressed nor intended to share in same contexts. What is your point here?

I'm providing commentry to a news story so as to give a contextualised picture. Why are you taking it so personally?

 

[The Eagle]

I'm providing commentry to a news story so as to give a contextualised picture. Why are you taking it so personally?

No such TAKING IT PERSONALLY though your reply starting with a question in context of HAS ANYONE SAID IS CLOSED seems like jumping on steering seat being offended the Indian deal. However, news is just a news likewise this deal alone.

 

[Abingdonboy]

No such TAKING IT PERSONALLY though your reply starting with a question in context of HAS ANYONE SAID IS CLOSED seems like jumping on steering seat being offended the Indian deal. However, news is just a news likewise this deal alone.

"Closed"/"complete", this is just semantics. My intention was to give a fuller picture and contextualise the report and that I have done.

Good day.

 

[The enlightened]

DAC approval happening on papers exchanged possibly on April 21 followed by visits for formal signing..

@Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay @Vauban

April 21 is here. Lets hope we are not disappointed again.

 

[Abingdonboy]

April 21 is here. Lets hope we are not disappointed again.

No DAC announced for today, @PARIKRAMA gave a rough estimate but DACs meet with irregularity and can be postponed for a few days.

 

[The enlightened]

No DAC announced for today, @PARIKRAMA gave a rough estimate but DACs meet with irregularity and can be postponed for a few days.

That may be it. All news articles involving MoS Defence stated that it might happen today. Lets see

 

[Abingdonboy]

That may be it. All news articles involving MoS Defence stated that it might happen today. Lets see

Normally you hear about DACs meeting on the day but today there hasn't been any such news AFAIK.