Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2]

[SR-91]

DAC approval happening on papers exchanged possibly on April 21 followed by visits for formal signing..

@Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay @Vauban

New Delhi: The Government on Tuesday said that most of the issues concerning the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft from France have been duly addressed and a deal would be finalised soon.

New agency PTI quoted Rao Inderjit Singh, MoS Defence, as saying, ''Most hitches in Rafale fighter plane deal have been addressed. Next Defence Acquisition Council meet will address the remaining issues.''

The announcement from the government is significant as a high-level team from France is expected to arrive here next month to firm up the order for the purchase of 36 Rafale fighter aircraft by India as both countries have managed to narrow down their differences over pricing.








The development comes nearly four months after Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Francois Hollande signed a memorandum of agreement to purchase 36 Rafale combat jets.

The Indian side has been negotiating hard to bring down the price with Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar refusing to buckle under pressure even as questions were being raised about the delay in signing the contract.

The deal comes with the clause of 50% offsets, which will be a bonanza for the domestic industry as it will lead to business worth at least €3 billion and create new jobs in India.

The tough part of the negotiations that began in July 2015 was to get the French side to agree to 50% offsets in the deal. Initially, Dassault Aviation, makers of Rafale, was willing to agree to reinvest only 30% of the value of its contract in Indian entities to meet the offset obligations.

The French side finally agreed to invest 50% of the value following a phone conversation between Modi and Hollande late last year.

The commercial negotiations, as in the pricing of the planes, equipment and other issues, actually began only in mid-January this year.

Government sources said the deal has not been concluded yet but it is in “final stages”.

The sources said the price for 36 Rafales, as per the UPA tender, keeping the cost escalation and dollar rate in mind, comes to a little over Rs.65,000 crore. This includes the cost involved in making changes India has sought in the aircraft, including Israeli helmet mounted display and some specific weaponry, among others.

“The effort is to bring down the price to less than €8 billion (Rs.59,000 crore),” the sources said. The expectation is that the final deal will be clinched by May-end.

Under the proposed deal, French companies apart from Dassault Aviation, will provide several aeronautics, electronics and micro-electronics technologies to comply with the offset obligation.



Companies like Safran and Thales will join Dassault in providing state-of-art technologies in stealth, radar, thrust vectoring for missiles and materials for electronics and micro-electronics.


http://zeenews.india.com/news/india...ddressed-dac-to-meet-soon-centre_1877681.html

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

https://twitter.com/x/status/722453502270709762

Junior def minister

https://twitter.com/x/status/722429848623439872

Also have a read http://www.indiasnews.net/index.php/sid/243308631
@PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy

"I can only tell you that so far most of the hitches that were there had been addressed. A few (other) things will be addressed when possibly the matter comes before the DAC in the next meeting and thereafter I think the road shall be clear," Singh told reporters on the sidelines of a joint Air Force-CII seminar on Make in India on Tuesday.
When asked we have reports from Bundelkhand that people are forced to eat chapatis made of grass, in such circumstances can India afford to buy 36 Rafale that would cost around Rs 65,000 crore, Singh said, "A nation prospers when it is safe from all sides like air and water, and if that safety is not there, we won't be able to have chapattis made of even grass."
"Today Rafale is our necessity, while LCA is entirely different from Rafael; we need both. We are trying to invest our resources in right manner so as to make our air force more capable," he added.
India and France in January signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for the purchase of Rafale.
According to reports, 36 Rafales will cost a little over Rs 65,000 crore and effort is on to bring down the price to les s than Euros Rs 59,000 crore. (ANI)

DAC approval happening on papers exchanged possibly on April 21 followed by visits for formal signing..

@Abingdonboy @Picdelamirand-oil @Taygibay @Vauban

It says the French officials will come back in may.... I am getting a feeling k will never forget this May in my life.

https://twitter.com/x/status/721628029777129472

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@Ankit Kumar 002

@Stephen Cohen ,can confirm i said wait for May month for good news..

here

Date would be last week Wednesday or 13th
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-192#post-8239382

and here

https://defence.pk/threads/u-s-keen-to-build-fighter-jets-in-india.426355/page-3#post-8236863

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

@Ankit Kumar 002

@Stephen Cohen ,can confirm i said wait for May month for good news..

here

View attachment 301139
Date would be last week Wednesday or 13th
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-192#post-8239382

and here

View attachment 301140
https://defence.pk/threads/u-s-keen-to-build-fighter-jets-in-india.426355/page-3#post-8236863

Well you have got some serious sources and analysis potential at your service. I hope to see your predictions on S400 too.

 

[Masterhunter]

Sorry this figure is said by another poster master hunter in 218 page


I followed all this, now tell me how much india will pay for 126 jets

Yes mate ... I said it.....

As u calculate the price of rafale by dividing 8.8 billion dollars/36 or as in Qatar order 7.2 billion dollars/24...
I calculated by flyaway cost...
Search for flyaway cost of rafale and it will come about 85 M dollar each so with 90 planes means ...7.65 billion dollar...
Weapons and spares extra...

This is also one way of calculating rafale cost.... Don't you agree..?..

So unless u agree that till the time complete package of deal is out in open 36 rafale we don't know how much actually it will cost.

Till that time it happens, I think it's better u stop..

@ as for pak purchase of 8F16 for 500 M ... It's flyaway cost... With no weapon, spares, and no offset/TOT...
So these etwo can't be compared...

I hope now u understand a bit

 

[migflug]

Bjp twitter account. Looks like the deal is complete

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

India and France to Finalize $8.9 Billion Deal for 36 Rafales
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...finalize-89-billion-deal-36-rafales/83221878/

So, from the article:

1. 
   
   
   • Thirty percent offsets will be embarked for future military aviation research and development (R&D) programs and the remaining 20 percent will be with Indian [defense] industries making components for Rafale.
   • Safran and Thales will join Dassault in providing state-of-the-art technologies in stealth, radar, thrust vectoring for missiles, and materials for electronics and micro-electronics,
   • IAF wants and includes Mica air-to-air missile, Scalp cruise missile and Meteor beyond-visual-range missile and precision-guided munitions.
   • An IAF source said India-specific Rafale aircraft will be able to carry 10 tons of weaponry. (this means that Indian Rafale will have an improved M-88)
   • The first Rafale is expected to be delivered within 20 months of signing the G2G agreement. (This mean that it's already in manufacturing)
   • There is a long-term requirement of about 10 squadrons of Rafale aircraft (say 200 aircraft, including missile warning radar)

 

[PARIKRAMA]

India and France to Finalize $8.9 Billion Deal for 36 Rafales
http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...finalize-89-billion-deal-36-rafales/83221878/

So, from the article:

1. 
   
   
   • Thirty percent offsets will be embarked for future military aviation research and development (R&D) programs and the remaining 20 percent will be with Indian [defense] industries making components for Rafale.
   • Safran and Thales will join Dassault in providing state-of-the-art technologies in stealth, radar, thrust vectoring for missiles, and materials for electronics and micro-electronics,
   • IAF wants and includes Mica air-to-air missile, Scalp cruise missile and Meteor beyond-visual-range missile and precision-guided munitions.
   • An IAF source said India-specific Rafale aircraft will be able to carry 10 tons of weaponry. (this means that Indian Rafale will have an improved M-88)
   • The first Rafale is expected to be delivered within 20 months of signing the G2G agreement. (This mean that it's already in manufacturing)
   • There is a long-term requirement of about 10 squadrons of Rafale aircraft (say 200 aircraft, including missile warning radar)

There you go Sir..

Offset clarity there..

Technologies getting shared clear which i had said with Radar RBE2 AESA and Spectra

Armament is clear and meteor is there and so also scalp @Stephen Cohen

I clearly said about improved engines here... and i said this too recently that our rafales will have new engines

Its being manufactured and so is the new engine program.. Engine program is running close to 10 months.. so reasonable time for both planes and engines..


I said 300 rafales and 100+ in IN and now its clear IAF need is 10 sqd.. You will hear about IN part too soon..

customizations of the indian missiles are not fully ready and hence we will do it in India and do again the whole testing + certification.. i said NG version of missiles are not ready yet..


As i Said in other forum.. ppl can laugh and mock me.. but strangely i did not digress from what i came to know and put it out here knowing very well the backslash risk..

Anyway project execution is the key now..

MII should be closed by Dec 16 or max by Mar 17.. Then its a full big project for India..


@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @Vauban @Taygibay @zebra7 @cerberus @Ankit Kumar 002 @Stephen Cohen @Masterhunter @anant_s @Ankit Kumar 002

Enjoy.. Things will be leaked like this and it will be out in open soon..

what no one will say officially is the help in NG SSBN and SSN program.. DCNS is soon coming for a project part for INS Vishal... France is getting a strategic role officially..

Expect some more goodies in coming times..


edited to add customization point

 

[#hydra#]

Y

There you go Sir..

Offset clarity there..

Technologies getting shared clear which i had said with Radar RBE2 AESA and Spectra

Armament is clear and meteor is there and so also scalp @Stephen Cohen

I clearly said about improved engines here... and i said this too recently that our rafales will have new engines

Its being manufactured and so is the new engine program.. Engine program is running close to 10 months.. so reasonable time for both planes and engines..


I said 300 rafales and 100+ in IN and now its clear IAF need is 10 sqd.. You will hear about IN part too soon..

customizations of the indian missiles are not fully ready and hence we will do it in India and do again the whole testing + certification.. i said NG version of missiles are not ready yet..


As i Said in other forum.. ppl can laugh and mock me.. but strangely i did not digress from what i came to know and put it out here knowing very well the backslash risk..

Anyway project execution is the key now..

MII should be closed by Dec 16 or max by Mar 17.. Then its a full big project for India..


@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @Vauban @Taygibay @zebra7 @cerberus @Ankit Kumar 002 @Stephen Cohen @Masterhunter @anant_s @Ankit Kumar 002

Enjoy.. Things will be leaked like this and it will be out in open soon..

what no one will say offcially is the help in SSBN and SSN program.. DCNS is soon coming for a project part for INS Vishal... France is getting a strategic role officially..

Expect some more goodies in coming times..


edited to add customization point

Man u r really a holy grail with lot of informations... wants to know about s400,amca,engine for amca,and aura from u...

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I had asked my source about one particular aspect..

Little is known about Spectra database.. It seems Our NSA Mr Doval has worked out some quid pro quo structure for that... Ours wont be empty for sure.. In return we may provide some data pointers/emission for the database.. Something about periodic sharing and exchange.... Not disclosed is the extent..

 

[Spectre]

There you go Sir..

Offset clarity there..

Technologies getting shared clear which i had said with Radar RBE2 AESA and Spectra

Armament is clear and meteor is there and so also scalp @Stephen Cohen

I clearly said about improved engines here... and i said this too recently that our rafales will have new engines

Its being manufactured and so is the new engine program.. Engine program is running close to 10 months.. so reasonable time for both planes and engines..


I said 300 rafales and 100+ in IN and now its clear IAF need is 10 sqd.. You will hear about IN part too soon..

customizations of the indian missiles are not fully ready and hence we will do it in India and do again the whole testing + certification.. i said NG version of missiles are not ready yet..


As i Said in other forum.. ppl can laugh and mock me.. but strangely i did not digress from what i came to know and put it out here knowing very well the backslash risk..

Anyway project execution is the key now..

MII should be closed by Dec 16 or max by Mar 17.. Then its a full big project for India..


@Abingdonboy @AUSTERLITZ @MilSpec @Vauban @Taygibay @zebra7 @cerberus @Ankit Kumar 002 @Stephen Cohen @Masterhunter @anant_s @Ankit Kumar 002

Enjoy.. Things will be leaked like this and it will be out in open soon..

what no one will say officially is the help in NG SSBN and SSN program.. DCNS is soon coming for a project part for INS Vishal... France is getting a strategic role officially..

Expect some more goodies in coming times..


edited to add customization point

The whole thing can go horribly wrong if the wrong MII partner is chosen. AFAIK India has a veto on the partner DA will chose and hope external influences and vested interested do not drive the choice.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

The whole thing can go horribly wrong if the wrong MII partner is chosen. AFAIK India has a veto on the partner DA will chose and hope external influences and vested interested do not drive the choice.

From my point of view India had a veto on the partner DA will chose for MMRCA, but not for this deal.

 

[Spectre]

From my point of view India had a veto on the partner DA will chose for MMRCA, but not for this deal.

Tough to say anything for sure as details are not out and perhaps not even negotiated where MII is concerned, HAL was the sole choice in MMRCA hence there was so question of veto as such. Veto comes into play when there are more than one choice.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The whole thing can go horribly wrong if the wrong MII partner is chosen. AFAIK India has a veto on the partner DA will chose and hope external influences and vested interested do not drive the choice.

IF India wants Dassault to deliver all that it has committed then we will have
to give maximum control to Dassault

The earlier MMRCA failed exactly because of control issues between HAL and Dassault

The JV this time will be controlled and managed by Dassault ; One Indian Private company
and may be HAL for technology transfer and absorbtion

Though our rules allow for 49 percent equity by the Foreign partner
It can be extended to 51 % in exceptional cases

 

[AugenBlick]

IF India wants Dassault to deliver all that it has committed then we will have
to give maximum control to Dassault

The earlier MMRCA failed exactly because of control issues between HAL and Dassault

The JV this time will be controlled and managed by Dassault ; One Indian Private company
and may be HAL for technology transfer and absorbtion

Though our rules allow for 49 percent equity by the Foreign partner
It can be extended to 51 % in exceptional cases

It all depends the ToT and skill-up gradation component in the deal.