Countries not willing to talk about Kashmir because of India's influence: Former Pakistan diplomat

[VCheng]

In other words, the Indian interpretation of Simla Agreement is not accepted by the UN


In words of the former UNMOGIP chief, The Shimla agreement does not supersede the UNMOGIP mission

No Sir. All it says is that the UNMOGIP is there to monitor the ceasefire. That is all.

 

[Corona]

Since they are not your countrymen, you are forgiven for not knowing about their cause.

All Kashmiris living in Northern India are citizens of India.

 

[M. Sarmad]

No Sir. All it says is that the UNMOGIP is there to monitor the ceasefire. That is all.

Sir, do you have problems with comprehension ?? :

UN trashes India's claim that military group 'needs disbanding'

 

[VCheng]

Sir, do you have problems with comprehension ?? :

UN trashes India's claim that military group 'needs disbanding'

Sir, the UN Sec-Gen is correct in saying that the UNMOGIP can be disbanded only by a UNSC Resolution. In the meantime, its remit is to monitor the December 1971 ceasefire and report back. That is all. Its existence does not mean much beyond its defined mandate.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Sir, the UN Sec-Gen is correct in saying that the UNMOGIP can be disbanded only by a UNSC Resolution. In the meantime, its remit is to monitor the December 1971 ceasefire and report back. That is all. Its existence does not mean much beyond its defined mandate.

In a clear rebuff to India, the UN's chief military observer in India and Pakistan mission, Major General Young Bum-Choi, has trashed New Delhi's claim that the military group has lost its relevance and needs to be disbanded.

"A permanent peace settlement should be arranged between the two states (India and Pakistan) and only then UNMOGIP should fade into history," the General said in an interview published in the February 2013 issue of the UN newsletter.

His remark is bound to create ripples in New Delhi, which has taken a tough view following the brutal killing of two Indian soldiers by Pakistani armymen on the Line of Control on January 8.

While Islamabad has been seeking a UNMOGIP probe into the killings, India sees it as a ploy by Pakistan to internationalise the Kashmir issue.

India has been arguing that UNMOGIP's role has been overtaken by the Shimla Agreement of 1972.

The UN official, however, said the UN mandate 307, which was issued in 1971, directs the UNMOGIP to supervise along the LoC and report back to the UN headquarters.

"I know that since the 1972 Shimla agreement, the Indian government's standpoint is different, which is that India (does not need) UNMOGIP anymore.

"According to them, the issue is not third-party's engagement issue, it is a bilateral issue, as stated in that agreement," he said.


General Choi of South Korea, who was appointed the head of the mission by UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon in June last year, made it clear that the UNMOGIP will not be wound up.

"UN's position is that UNMOGIP could be terminated only by a decision of the Security Council. The Shimla agreement does not supersede the UNMOGIP mission here until another UN resolution for terminating it is issued.

"Indians may have another point of view when they interpret the Shimla agreement.

"But whenever we would terminate the UN mission here, the consent of both parties will be essential." he said.

On January 22, Indian envoy to the UN Hardeep Puri had said that in times of austerity, bodies such as UNMOGIP should be wound up.

However, the UN official said Pakistan has to be on board if UNMOGIP has to be wound up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahom...as-claim-military-group-needs-disbanding.html

 

[VCheng]

"UN's position is that UNMOGIP could be terminated only by a decision of the Security Council. The Shimla agreement does not supersede the UNMOGIP mission here until another UN resolution for terminating it is issued.

Correct. Its mission is to monitor the ceasefire. That is all. To extend the interpretation any further is incorrect.

 

[Nalini]

With Muslims committing terror acts across the world, there is very little chance any Non Muslim country will support for any Human Right violation against Muslims. There is going to be many more terror attacks in 2018 across the west. Germany will ban Muslims followed by entire Europe & west in next 3-4 years like Trump.

Just yesterday they have caught a Bangladeshi & a Pakistani in UK in the plot to kill the PM. So with such acts you are only helping India's case on Kashmir. The world will soon say Kashmir ethnically belongs to the Kashmiri Pandits & Islam is a outside invading culture to the valley, so it rightfully belongs to India. Mark my words.

I have already told what's going to be the fate of AK & GB by 2022. China knows this very well, that's reason, they are now trying to convince India to become a part of CPEC. They are even willing to change the name for us. China cannot & will not take the side of Pakistan if India attacks Pak.

You need very deep analytical mind & spy network to understand, what's coming up & how fast geo-politics is changing. After 2021-22 China will never dare to attack India or even do intrusions like it's now. Even your politicians & big think tanks won't be knowing why & nobody in this forum will have any clue for sure. Why is American Aircraft carriers & heavy force there in SCS, also frequented by Australia, France & UK carriers, even after India came on board, nobody is provoking or attacking China or N Korea.

Does anybody know why? You will know by 2021/22. China knows it. They will also surrender to India after next Modi re-election. After that even if we do genocide to Kashmiris the world will quietly support it & just go blind & deaf to anybody’s protests.

Kim Jong-un will be overthrown by his own people next year 2018. North Korea is gone by max 2019. Putin may mostly step down & if he becomes President again, there will be civil unrest which will force him to step down. So Russia will be very quiet till 2020 for now. I won’t be surprised the next President of Russia switches its alliance with the west dumping China, given it’s economic condition. Syria will break up (partitioned) by 2020 mostly. Arabs are fast buying sophisticated weapons & fighters from everywhere. The ME is going to be in a utter mess in the coming decade.

So Pakistan has no chance whatsoever unless it surrenders to India & change the side, if it wishes to survive. You are going to be crushed from all sides Afghanistan, Iran, Tajakistan, Balochistan by India & it’s allies. China will be just a mere spectator.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Correct. Its mission is to monitor the ceasefire. That is all. To extend the interpretation any further is incorrect.

Of course the UN never sent any troops to Kashmir to resolve the dispute militarily .. What's your point ?

And read again what the UNMOGIP chief said:

India has been arguing that UNMOGIP's role has been overtaken by the Shimla Agreement of 1972.....

UN's position is that UNMOGIP could be terminated only by a decision of the Security Council. The Shimla agreement does not supersede the UNMOGIP mission ...


Which part did you not understand ?

 

[Corona]

With Muslims committing terror acts across the world, there is very little chance any Non Muslim country will support for any Human Right violation against Muslims.

Just yesterday they have caught a Bangladeshi & a Pakistani in UK in the plot to kill the PM. So with such acts you are only helping India's case on Kashmir. The world will soon say Kashmir ethnically belongs to the Kashmiri Pandits & Islam is a outside invading culture to the valley, so it rightfully belongs to India. Mark my words.

I have already told what's going to be the fate of AK & GB by 2022. China knows this very well, that's reason, they are now trying to convince India to become a part of CPEC. They are even willing to change the name for us. China cannot & will not take the side of Pakistan if India attacks Pak.

You need very deep analytical mind & spy network to understand, what's coming up & how fast geo-politics is changing. After 2021-22 China will never dare to attack India or even do intrusions like it's now. Even your politicians & big think tanks won't be knowing why & nobody in this forum will have any clue for sure. Why is American Aircraft carriers & heavy force there in SCS, also frequented by Australia, France & UK carriers, even after India came on board, nobody is provoking or attacking China or N Korea.

Does anybody know why? You will know by 2021/22. China knows it. They will also surrender to India after next Modi re-election. After that even if we do genocide to Kashmiris the world will quietly support it & just go blind & deaf to anybody’s protests.

Kim Jong-un will be overthrown by his own people next year 2018. North Korea is gone by max 2019. Putin may mostly step down & if he becomes President again, there will be civil unrest which will force him to step down. So Russia will be very quiet till 2020 for now. I won’t be surprised the next President of Russia switches its alliance with the west dumping China, given it’s economic condition. Syria will break up (partitioned) by 2020 mostly. Arabs are fast buying sophisticated weapons & fighters from everywhere. The ME is going to be in a utter mess in the coming decade.

So Pakistan has no chance whatsoever unless it surrenders to India & change the side, if it wishes to survive. You are going to be crushed from all sides Afghanistan, Iran, Tajakistan, Balochistan by India & it’s allies. China will be just a mere spectator.

That's the wrong view to take towards Muslims. Nobody should be seen any less human cause of their religion. And to say people won't do anything cause they're Muslims? You know that's not true.

 

[VCheng]

Of course the UN never sent any troops to Kashmir to solve the dispute militarily .. What's your point ?

And read again what the UNMOGIP chief said:

India has been arguing that UNMOGIP's role has been overtaken by the Shimla Agreement of 1972.....

UN's position is that UNMOGIP could be terminated only by a decision of the Security Council. The Shimla agreement does not supersede the UNMOGIP mission ...


Which part did you not understand ?

A UNSC resolution created UNMOGIP to monitor the ceasefire, and only a UNSC Resolution can disband it. India's argument is clearly incorrect in asking for its disbandment without such a UNSC Resolution. However, the UN has also clearly refused to get involved in mediating the Kashmir dispute any further without the consent of both parties, as specified under the Simla Agreement. Conflating these two independent considerations is simply invalid.

 

[M. Sarmad]

... India's argument is clearly incorrect in asking for its disbandment without such a UNSC Resolution. ...

Finally, we agree on something (regarding Kashmir)

However, the UN has also clearly refused to get involved in mediating the Kashmir dispute any further without the consent of both parties, as specified under the Simla Agreement.

Please quote any statement by a UN official to backup your claim. No bilateral agreement between any two countries can supersede UNSC resolutions.

As for the UN's reluctance to mediate, it has nothing to do with the Simla Agreement. The UN made no serious effort to resolve this dispute after early 1950's. By late 1950's, the UN was urging Pakistan and India to settle this matter "out of UN" ... Later, the USSR used "the veto" multiple times to avoid discussion on Kashmir in the Security Council. Simla Agreement was signed in 1972 only. So its not Simla that has made the UN practically irrelevant. The U.N had already been virtually elbowed out of the Kashmir dispute by Russia.

 

[VCheng]

Please quote any statement by a UN official to backup your claim. No bilateral agreement between any two countries can supersede UNSC resolutions.

Sir, I have posted the UN Sec-Gen statements in this regard before in our previous discussions. They remain a matter of record.

Finally, we agree on something (regarding Kashmir)

I can support only the facts, without being influenced by any other considerations, no matter what position they may or may not support.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Sir, I have posted the UN Sec-Gen statements in this regard before in our previous discussions. They remain a matter of record.

Please post a single statement by any UN Sec-Gen that Simla Agreement has made Kashmir essentially a bilateral dispute ... Waiting

 

[Nalini]

That's the wrong view to take towards Muslims. Nobody should be seen any less human cause of their religion. And to say people won't do anything cause they're Muslims? You know that's not true.

I appreciate your view, but reality is opposite. Everybody feels the same towards other human beings. But the world is fed up of terror attacks of Muslims across the world. There are Hindus who are killed due to hatred across west & America, but we don't do terror attacks to take revenge. There is never a Hindu or a Buddhist terrorist caught ever.

Sorry, My words may sound harsh. I am not posting hatred here. But this is exactly how the world is thinking, including the Indian think tanks. I am just posting my analysis. The world feels there is no other way to stop terror in this world. There is absolutely no other alternative to eliminate terror. Love or humanity works from both sides. If you share love you get love.

Will Pakistan hang Hafiz Saeed or hand him over to India. NO. Can they hand over Dawood Ibrahim, Massod Azhar, Syed Salahuddin. If this can happen, yes the world will start considering Pakistan's commitment.

My attempt is to open Pakistan's eyes, so they can save their country. We once lived together without any hatred. But this differences was sowed by them with partition & the wars & terror attacks. Now it won't work, they have to give up these methods, it will fail. Only peace with India at any cost immediately is in the interests of Pakistan & for the sub-continent.

If they raise Kashmir in international forum, they will hear louder & louder voices of Afghans, Balochis & GB raised across the world to the embarrassment & frustration of Pakistan. There are Ahmadiya/Mohajirs/Hazaras which may follow.

Take a snap shot of my post & keep it & see If I am right. I am giving the time-frame. No fake claims, this will happen that will happen. Check the time & follow it. Remember Ajit Doval is the head of the entire Asian geo-politics. Emotions are not considered when they plan, they implement strategies which will show result. All other strategies has been tried before to vain. Go track him closely you will understand what I am saying.

 

[VCheng]

Please post a single statement by any UN Sec-Gen that Simla Agreement has made Kashmir essentially a bilateral dispute ... Waiting

Sir, being the diplomat he is required to be, he has never said that exact statement you wish for, and you know it. However, he clearly has said that UN mediation over Kashmir can happen only if both India and Pakistan agree to it. Does that phrase remind you of anything?

"The UN chief said India and Pakistan should address differences through diplomacy and dialogue and offered to mediate. "His good offices are available, if accepted by both sides," the UN spokesman said."