Chinese diplomat and Rauf Klasra in bitter tweeting match over CPEC

[volatile]

I agree with klasra on that coal plants issue. The main Focus should be on hydro , solar and wind energy. Since we've suffered that smog menace this year so its wise to keep it green, keep it clean

Can you please provide some source for this Chinese tech failure

Rauf Klasra is third class journalist with out facts and figure stating what ever he likes ,Unfortunately in Pakistan Luqman type journalists are also being watched and followed

 

[LeGenD]

And this is what Mr Klasra and his ilk are paid to achieve. No, the deep State of Pakistan knows who our friends are and so does the military. China is Pakistan's greatest ally and friend. Many have tried to sell Pakistan down the river. This Klasra is just another one of them. There have been many over the last thirty or forty years and yet the alliance proceeds. Long may it last. Dont worry, there are many in Pakistan who view China as a cornerstone of Pakistan foreign policy.

Really?

1. The defective locomotives?
2. Neelum-Jhelum corruption scandal?
3. Accommodating kickbacks of our politicians in various projects?
4. Flooding our markets with low-quality junk?

On top of everything, lack of transparency in our dealings with China. CPEC-related dealings should be made public, otherwise people will ask questions and they have every right to.

We should keep our eyes open and not trust blindly.

If it is so profitable, who else would invest $50 billion assuming China pull out of CPEC? China One belt One Road covers all Central Asia and Russia, not just Pakistan. The major trade route and oil pipeline are via Central Asian states and Russia. Just putting things into perspective.

Ideally, we are all want clean energy, but how many countries can afford it? 33% of US electricity still comes from coal alone. Another 30% from natural gas.

Why pull out of CPEC? Just be fair and transparent in your dealings with us. Pakistani public is usually kept in the dark about state-related matters and this has given rise to paranoia and heightened criticism in the country. Expect a few questions coming your way too. Chinese diplomats should be professional about these matters. Why getting personal with a journalist?

16% percent of electricity in U.S. is based on coal at present. They want to minimize reliance on coal for energy.

I have had a few run-ins with this Klasra guy on twitter. A few noteworthy things about him:

(1) Travels to the USA a lot.
(2) Loves Indian movies, actors and intellectuals.
(3) Has more money than he should considering the kind of job he does.
(4) Wants a division of Punjab province based on a 'north-south divide'.

Apart from that he once quoted Mario Puzo's Godfather to me, like that is supposed ti impress me, I read that when I was 12 and its a book about bloody Italian gangsters! LOL!Then he claimed he had read War and Peace, No, I have have never met anyone who actually read the entire book either. He must be the first Pakistani in history to have read War and Peace cover to cover. In fact I have never met anyone ever who has read that book. I have it at home and I have had it for twenty years and still havent read the bugger! Rauf Klasra is hack.

None of those points imply ulterior motives.

One of my uncles is a Pakistani American and he is as patriotic as any Pakistani, more than average I would say.

 

[war&peace]

When a person tweets randomly on a subject without providing proof then to me it sounds like the person is fishing for trouble. The topic of Chinese firms importing labour into Pakistan has been discussed extensively so why after one year is he raising this question from a supposedly anonymous Senator? China is going to invest $400 billion on its railway sector so they have enough construction projects ongoing in their own country instead of sending workers abroad.

Please look at the Homeland Dream videos on youtube and the evidence is right in front of us...most of the workers are Pakistani's. In fact a number of young Pakistani engineers are being trained by the Chinese in these projects. Instead of peddling this argument forward why doesn't the journalists refute these claims. The media in Pakistan should create a positive perception of Pakistan not cause friction with our partners. This is the difference between Chinese media and Pakistan media.

True wind farms do take less time to build, however, the cost of investment is huge. The total costs of Dawood Wind Power Project is $115 million and it will only generate 49.5 MW. These types of projects are not enough to change Pakistan in the short term. Port Qasim will become an economic zone, so how can we provide electricity to companies who wish to relocate their business in the short term? Do you really think Solar Power and Wind Farm will do the job? Plus which State Owned Enterprise in China will invest billions of dollars in wind farm projects in Pakistan? The point I am trying to advocate is that the Chinese are investing in a number of different energy projects that will consists of (coal, wind, solar and hydroelectricity). But we shouldn't moan about 1 or two coal projects. Every Pakistani has a right to question CPEC, yet when you represent Pakistan at least have the decency to research and ask appropriate questions that make sense. Pakistan must industrialize otherwise we will be stuck in the stone age while the rest of the world develops.

Let's take a balanced approach. I'm not totally supporting Rauf Klasra..I just agree with him on the coal power and in all my posts I just discussed that aspect only.

I think as investors Chinese have the right to bring the competent workforce whether it is Pakistanis or Chinese and by the way, Chinese workforce is not cheaper than Pakistanis in Pakistan so ultimately they will hire Pakistanis when local skilled labour is ready to replace them and Rauf Klasra should have done some research and also be more considerate in asking the questions. An ambassador is a respectable figure especially if he is from a friendly country and China is Pakistan's top most friend from any angle.. and we should be indebted to them for holding our hand in the hour of trouble but as the same time it has a pure business dimension to it too and we shouldn't buy the crap if someone tries to sell us that China is investing in loss. They are shrewd business men and there is nothing wrong about being business oriented friend too but China is more than just business partner and there is no doubt about it.

 

[Rasengan]

Let's take a balanced approach. I'm not totally supporting Rauf Klasra..I just agree with him on the coal power and in all my posts I just discussed that aspect only.

I think as investors Chinese have the right to bring the competent workforce whether it is Pakistanis or Chinese and by the way, Chinese workforce is not cheaper than Pakistanis in Pakistan so ultimately they will hire Pakistanis when local skilled labour is ready to replace them and Rauf Klasra should have done some research and also be more considerate in asking the questions. An ambassador is a respectable figure especially if he is from a friendly country and China is Pakistan's top most friend from any angle.. and we should be indebted to them for holding our hand in the hour of trouble but as the same time it has a pure business dimension to it too and we shouldn't buy the crap if someone tries to sell us that China is investing in loss. They are shrewd business men and there is nothing wrong about being business oriented friend too but China is more than just business partner and there is no doubt about it.

I agree with your opinion and obviously the Chinese will receive a huge benefit in return. In fact Western and Central China will require Pakistani ports to export their goods. The Chinese Government has created ghost cities because they expect in the next decade or so the population from the East would shift to these areas creating new businesses that would be linked to the corridor. Once Pakistan is energy sufficient I know that a number of Pakistani's will have the confidence to invest back into the country and our industries will grow at a phenomenal rate. However, the foundation must be strong and CPEC will initiate this.

 

[nature is]

Why pull out of CPEC? Just be fair and transparent in your dealings with us. Pakistani public is usually kept in the dark about state-related matters and this has given rise to paranoia and heightened criticism in the country. Expect a few questions coming your way too. Chinese diplomats should be professional about these matters. Why getting personal with a journalist?

16% percent of electricity in U.S. is based on coal at present. They want to minimize reliance on coal for energy.

Responsibility lies on the Pakistani govt to provide information to its people, not Chinese diplomat. The one making accusation without evidence and getting personal was the journalist. Can I expect statement based on facts? Of course not, Indians here are against CPEC one way or the other.

Based on full year data 2015, 33% comes from coal. US can afford to reduce, Pakistan can't, oh India can't too.

 

[STEVEN囧]

A lot of small coal-fired power plants are being closed in China,because those plants has no equipments of removing nitrate and sulphur because those equipments is expensive.In addition, the benefits of small plants is very little.Chinese state-owned enterprises is reforming and a lot of low-profit and indebted enterprises are being merged or closed.
Coal is the main and effective resource in China.The cost performance is the best nowadays.Enviroment friendly resources is more and more popular but the cost is higher relatively.

 

[maxpayne]

Good to know and good for you. It should be an awesome experience to talk to you sir without any puns.


We need electricity but renewables (hydroelectric + wind + solar + nuclear) should be more than sufficient for all the needs of Pakistan. Just find out how much is the demand, and how much is the combined potential of these resources.

Please don't use the word "we are beggar" for the whole nation, a farmer who wakes up before dawn, ploughs his fields and seeds them. waters them,...and sheds his sweat and blood, he is not a beggar, there are a lot of Pakistanis who are self made and earn respectable living..and they can earn their livelihood in any part of the world and I'm one of them..living in USA and earning enough to be included in the top percentile for income for their/my host country.

Beggars are your rulers and blood sucking elite that thrives on corruption that includes your bureaucracy, politicians and judges who if leave Pakistan cannot earn their living except for the robbed booty and I don't want myself to be associated with these low lives.

I am against coal power production, in general and especially for Pakistan, since we already have very little vegetation and forest cover, rain is becoming scarce and huge clouds of VOCs and green house gases looming over our highly dense cities mean Pakistanis sign their own death warrants especially when the health facilities are inadequate and people are general not very healthy.

As far as, Rauf Klasra is concerned, he is a journalist and asking teasing question is his job. Of course he is not an expert in energy systems so he may not be going with all the facts but I would expect from his interviewee or subject to answer with facts instead of resorting to personal attacks.

I would appreciate each and every step which even save a single penny for our country. Yes beggers are our rulers, but they are our selected people. Remember there are around 30lacs govt employees. Including families, they makes around 25% of our population. They are us!! If they beg, then it means that we beg!!
There are strict environmental studies relating to any high pollution plant, but benefits are more.
Yes renewable or some call sustainable which includes, hydro, solar, wind etc are best options but they huge funding. For example bhasha dam requires around 12B of funding which even developed countries cannot do themselves. We dont have better image (security,political stability, economic security etc) in world, so bringing investors is difficult.
Look how govt is tackling this,
1. Economy and political stability is role of civilians
2. Security is provided by armed forces
3. Funding is provided by China.

We will bcm regional super power in few years if things go like they are planned.
There are some factors which intentional or un-intentionally trying to disrupt progress in all three aspects. Keeping politics aside, i hate IK etc bcz they create instability. I hate journalists which bring suspicion in CPEC, and last and foremost, i hate govt/politicians who are trying to reap benefits for their self instead of country.
Its always better to highlight these issues (tweets) in some other suitable forum instead ot Chinese reps. As an engineer, CPEC is goldmine for them.Huge number of jobs being created etc.

One thing lagging in picture:
Improvement in industries and exports! If we tackle this issue as well, we will have reserves of 100B+ in next 5 years. Even current govt performance is poor here, but im still hopeful in next elections they will come with export increase plan. Further, im nearly sure that in 2018 electricity shortage will be finished as promised during last election campaign.
Rest we pray to Allah (swt) for hidayat to all involved in CPEC/Pakistan and grant us maximum profit in future. We deserve to have a better life!!!!

 

[war&peace]

but they are our selected people

What a fallacy Pakistanis have in their minds. Your govts are formed by USA, KSA and others..you just go to cast votes to legitimise their decision...2013 was the worst rigged election and your establishment was very much part of it...Have to ever thought why your politicians take circle around the US embassy, try to have personal connections with US senators and secretaries and presidents. Read wikkileaks and you will know who is the real king maker in Pakistan

 

[war&peace]

Remember there are around 30lacs govt employees. Including families, they makes around 25% of our population. They are us!! If they beg, then it means that we beg!!

Really...this is your level ...say that you are joking

Yes renewable or some call sustainable which includes, hydro, solar, wind etc are best options but they huge funding. For example bhasha dam requires around 12B of funding which even developed countries cannot do themselves. We dont have better image (security,political stability, economic security etc) in world, so bringing investors is difficult.
Look how govt is tackling this,
1. Economy and political stability is role of civilians
2. Security is provided by armed forces
3. Funding is provided by China.

What's the total cost of coal fired power projects? I don't think those are free.

 

[Mrc]

Any hydal project will take 10 years to complete... cannot close down industry for 10 years.... diamir bhasha is also now part of cpec.. or will be soon

 

[war&peace]

Any hydal project will take 10 years to complete... cannot close down industry for 10 years.... diamir bhasha is also now part of cpec.. or will be soon

FYI, there are many other renewable resources that can be installed in a short time.. like wind and solar..now would you like to tell us how much time is need for a comparable coal power-plant to become operational and what is the levelised cost per unit (MW-hr) for it ? also how much is the penalty in terms CO2 and other emissions?

@Mrc @maxpayne

Please listen to this educated discussion, it is in Urdu so I'm sure you will be able to understand. If there is something you don't get, please feel free to ask

 

[Guynextdoor2]

The smog was there thanks to the indians... and now we will be contributing more to mess it up further.

BS

FYI, there are many other renewable resources that can be installed in a short time.. like wind and solar..now would you like to tell us how much time is need for a comparable coal power-plant to become operational and what is the levelised cost per unit (MW-hr) for it ? also how much is the penalty in terms CO2 and other emissions?

@Mrc @maxpayne

Please listen to this educated discussion, it is in Urdu so I'm sure you will be able to understand. If there is something you don't get, please feel free to ask

besides buddy, India is trying to steal the plans for the coal plants you haven't built yet...........
......
............

 

[war&peace]

BS



besides buddy, India is trying to steal the plans for the coal plants you haven't built yet...........
......
............

I don't care about coal power plant..I actually hate them so you are welcome to steal this tech.

 

[DJ_Viper]

I agree with klasra on that coal plants issue. The main Focus should be on hydro , solar and wind energy. Since we've suffered that smog menace this year so its wise to keep it green, keep it clean

Sir, when people like you write on here, among others, the total lack of experience comes out so clearly that its sad. For your own political motives, you are putting down your partner that has provided the ONLY opportunity Pakistan can get to grow, period. This is your only and last change. Sadly, you and others, whom's posts I've read on your affiliations are out to hurt your own country because you guys happen to be rich. So hell with the rest of the 180 million poor people.

If you knew anything about this industry, you would know that you don't just shut down a power plant. What you do is to change the combustion method (you go from single cycle Coal to Combined cycle with natural gas or fuel, whichever is cheaper for a country). The US has a huge majority of her plants as Combined cycle plants. The rest of the machinery, facility, etc, remain the same. So he's right when he says no plants are shutting down. They are probably closed for upgrades to a combine cycle plant from Coal. Thanks

 

[Lavrentiy]

we have one of the largest coal reserve in the world at thar.... projects to utilize thar coal are part of cpec.... what do you suggest we do with thar coal ? let it rot?

Thar coal is Lignite B grade coal. It has low thermal efficiency and higher water content as compared to Anthracite coal.

Thar coal will only be economically feasible if power plants are installed at the mouth of mine or pit. Transporting it to anywhere else is not viable.

Hence, those coal plants at Gwadar, Sahiwal or elsewhere will use imported coal.