Chinese Communism - All Chinese members invited

[jamahir]

I m not a communist member and I don't believe in communism, I think communism is just an Utopia, Chinese communist party rules China with the Chinese traditional Confucius way of governance, merits and values, communist elements are added, which the party needs for its legitimacy.

As for religion part, I m agnostic, I believe there must be a powerful intelligence behind everything in this well organized and operated universe, but It'll be impossible for us to find out what it is.

I am a Communist and I have discussed with organized Communists in my city. China as of recent is not at all Communist but quite Capitalist, not in the extreme as India but still. China has a party system which is the one to govern as against the people directly governing themselves ( which Libyan Jamahiriya had ); China doesn't even an evolved money system that has erased the traditional Capitalist socio-economic classes but has a regular money system whose currency though funnily named "Renminbi" ( People's currency ) has nothing for the people but only perpetuates Capitalist socio-economic classification that has the super rich; rich; middle class and poor and the last two categories of citizens are encouraged not to overthrow this disparity-filled system but celebrate it and constantly seek to struggle for years through the oppressive 996 Culture of employment to find a magical lottery way to get into the rich club but which they will never attain; China has multiple stock exchanges ( including the Hong Kong one which is one of the world's oldest ) where the government allows the citizens to gamble money and if they lose the government enables the citizen to suicide by various means including jumping into a steel furnace; China government or private industry when send out poor Chinese workers to foreign lands are under constant threat of the China government functionaries or the private company's managements confiscating the Chinese workers' passport and money and leaving them stranded in foreign land; lastly, China is not internationalist.

Islamic socialism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Islam in essence is almost Communism, going far in bringing social, socio-economc and political rights, justices especially to the females and rationalities but not going fully in calling for abolition of money; abolition abolition of social classes ( like family ); abolition of private ownership of land and means of production; and abolition of nations and militaries. Your wiki has a few informations that are also posted in this thread of mine from 2016 whose OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Modern Communist and Modern Socialist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s :

During the same period (1920s-30s), another (though lesser known) Islamic scholar in undivided India got smitten by the 1917 Russian revolution and Marxism.

Hafiz Rahman Sihwarwl saw Islam and Marxism sharing five elements in common: (1) prohibition of the accumulation of wealth in the hands of the privileged classes (2) organisation of the economic structure of the state to ensure social welfare (3) equality of opportunity for all human beings (4) priority of collective social interest over individual privilege and (5) prevention of the permanentising of class structure through social revolution.

The motivations for many of these themes he drew from the Qur’an, which he understood as seeking to create an economic order in which the rich pay excessive, though voluntary taxes (Zakat) to minimise differences in living standards.

In the areas that Sihwarwl saw Islam and communism diverge were Islam’s sanction of private ownership within certain limits, and in its refusal to recognise an absolutely classless basis of society.

He suggested that Islam, with its prohibition of the accumulation of wealth, is able to control the class structure through equality of opportunity.

Basically, both Sindhi and Sihwarwl had stumbled upon an Islamic concept of the social democratic welfare state.

Building upon the initial thoughts of Sindhi and Sihwarwl were perhaps South Asia’s two most ardent and articulate supporters and theoreticians of Islamic Socilaism: Ghulam Ahmed Parvez and Dr. Khalifa Abdul Hakim.

Parvez was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Jinnah appointed Parvez to edit a magazine, Talu-e-Islam. It was set-up to propagate the creation of a separate Muslim country and to also answer the attacks that Jinnah’s All India Muslim League had begun to face from conservative Islamic parties and ulema who accused the League of being a pseudo-Muslim organisation and Jinnah for being too westernised and ‘lacking correct Islamic behavior.’

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.

Parvez joined the government after the creation of Pakistan in 1947, but after Jinnah’s death in 1948, he was sidelined until he resigned from his post in 1956.

The essence of both October (Bolshevik) Revolution in Russia/USSR and the Cultural Revolution of PRC is the discarding of previous culture/civilization and being reborn as a new nation. So, keeping religion as center of society is a bit like Pakistani's liking to keep the British King as their Head of State. It is fundamentally incompatible.

Please read above about Islam. It is natural that that true believers and understanders of Islam in the modern times have tended to commit to Modern Communism. I quote from "Solution to the economic problem : Socialism" which is part 2 of Muammar Gaddafi's Green Book :

The final step is for the new socialist society to reach a stage in which profit and money disappear. Society will become fully productive; the material needs of society will be met. In this final stage, profit will disappear, as will the need for money.

The recognition of profit is an acknowledgment of exploitation, for profit has no limit. Attempts so far to limit profit by various means have been reformative, not radical, intending to prohibit exploitation of man by man. The final solution lies in eradicating profit, but because profit is the dynamic force behind the economic process, eliminating profit is not a matter of decree but, rather, an outcome of the evolving socialist process. This solution can be attained when the material satisfaction of the needs of society and its members is achieved. Work to increase profit will itself lead to its final eradication.

True Muslims in the coming years will seek to meld Islamic thought with Communist thought.

Becos the Soviet is dead. China see the opportunity to be the leader in Karl Marx teaching. You see they embrace the Soviet flag so dearly.

Please read all of this post and see why China cannot claim to hold the flag of Marx's teachings.

But Communism is dying nowaday. Beside China, NK and Vietnam, there is no another countries who claim as a communist country.

Communism is eternal. Communism though not in a brought-together form but its ideas is separation was always there. Any human who seeks a human society of serenity, evolution, advancement, justice, harmony and anti-chaos will preach and adopt Communism.

Redistribution of wealth, public ownership of all property, farms, and businesses. These are revolutionary ideas.

I agree. Communism brings hope and our friend from Bangladesh, @Nergal, had said that Communism is the sweetest message ( something like that, sorry ). I will quote the remembrance of the Hindi films actor Parikshat Sahni who recounted his father, actor Balraj who was a Communist, who witnessed a poverty-induced fight between two money-poor pony owners in Kashmir and tried to stop them :

I remember the days I spent with Dad in Gulmarg with a nostalgic ache, in particular the long walks and climb to Khilan. The serenity of the hills, the mesmerizing vistas, the heavenly meadows and the meandering streams, they all gave us an overwhelming sense of peace and harmony, with each other and with nature. It was truly a deeply spiritual experience, which I have never been able to replicate anywhere or with anyone other than Dad.

Being an avid photographer, Dad carried his camera with him wherever he went and photographed any and everything that caught his eye—the deep coniferous forests, the wild flowers growing in the glades, the streams flowing down the mountainsides. And he discussed every topic that came to his mind with me. One day, we came across an unpleasant sight while on our evening walk.

Two pony owners, for some unknown reason, were fighting, lashing out at one another with their whips. I was unnerved at this sight. It looked like these two were hell bent on killing one another. Their faces and arms were lacerated and were bleeding profusely. There was no one around; Dad walked up to them and tried to pacify them, but they paid no heed to him. He implored them to stop and listen to him, but they were in a towering rage and kept whipping one another mercilessly.

---

Also read: Balraj Sahni, the common man’s hero who told their story through cinema

---

In their frenzy, one whiplash accidentally landed on Dad and tore his shirt sleeve, leaving an ugly mark on his forearm. Finding that the two were implacable, Dad backed off. He looked very sad as he stared at them for a while, oblivious of his own pain. ‘Come,’ Dad said to me and we walked off. He was quiet for a while, paying little attention to the whiplash he had received on his forearm. He was pensive and sounded dismal when he finally spoke, ‘I am sure the cause of this fight must be quite trivial. This is what poverty does to people. The sad part is that they are ignorant of the root cause of their troubles—exploitation! They have not yet guessed the reason for their poverty and understood who is responsible for it. That is capitalism for you! The poverty-stricken working classes in India are blissfully unaware of the reason why they are starving. The Hindus blame it on karma and their actions in their past lives. These poor fellows are illiterate and have never given a thought to who is exploiting them. They are not aware that just across those mountains lies the Soviet Union, where poverty and exploitation have ceased to exist; where there is equality and justice. When will there be a revolution in India?’

And what is wealth anyway ? I write of that here.

---

@SIPRA

 

[etylo]

I am a Communist and I have discussed with organized Communists in my city. China as of recent is not at all Communist but quite Capitalist, not in the extreme as India but still. China has a party system which is the one to govern as against the people directly governing themselves ( which Libyan Jamahiriya had ); China doesn't even an evolved money system that has erased the traditional Capitalist socio-economic classes but has a regular money system whose currency though funnily named "Renminbi" ( People's currency ) has nothing for the people but only perpetuates Capitalist socio-economic classification that has the super rich; rich; middle class and poor and the last two categories of citizens are encouraged not to overthrow this disparity-filled system but celebrate it and constantly seek to struggle for years through the oppressive 996 Culture of employment to find a magical lottery way to get into the rich club but which they will never attain; China has multiple stock exchanges ( including the Hong Kong one which is one of the world's oldest ) where the government allows the citizens to gamble money and if they lose the government enables the citizen to suicide by various means including jumping into a steel furnace; China government or private industry when send out poor Chinese workers to foreign lands are under constant threat of the China government functionaries or the private company's managements confiscating the Chinese workers' passport and money and leaving them stranded in foreign land; lastly, China is not internationalist.



Islam in essence is almost Communism, going far in bringing social, socio-economc and political rights, justices especially to the females and rationalities but not going fully in calling for abolition of money; abolition abolition of social classes ( like family ); abolition of private ownership of land and means of production; and abolition of nations and militaries. Your wiki has a few informations that are also posted in this thread of mine from 2016 whose OP is an article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha and is about Modern Communist and Modern Socialist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s :




Please read above about Islam. It is natural that that true believers and understanders of Islam in the modern times have tended to commit to Modern Communism. I quote from "Solution to the economic problem : Socialism" which is part 2 of Muammar Gaddafi's Green Book :

True Muslims in the coming years will seek to meld Islamic thought with Communist thought.



Please read all of this post and see why China cannot claim to hold the flag of Marx's teachings.



Communism is eternal. Communism though not in a brought-together form but its ideas is separation was always there. Any human who seeks a human society of serenity, evolution, advancement, justice, harmony and anti-chaos will preach and adopt Communism.



I agree. Communism brings hope and our friend from Bangladesh, @Nergal, had said that Communism is the sweetest message ( something like that, sorry ). I will quote the remembrance of the Hindi films actor Parikshat Sahni who recounted his father, actor Balraj who was a Communist, who witnessed a poverty-induced fight between two money-poor pony owners in Kashmir and tried to stop them :


And what is wealth anyway ? I write of that here.

---

@SIPRA

Sure, Indian Communism and Communists are far superior to that of the evil Chinese Communism and Communists, then you Indian Communists should save your slum country from abyss first.

 

[jamahir]

Sure, Indian Communism and Communists are far superior to that of the evil Chinese Communism and Communists, then you Indian Communists should save your slum country from abyss first.

1. The current CCP shouldn't claim Mao's revolution as the CCP has nothing of revolutionary ideas at all but is only a nationalist force with a red flag but which defends utter Capitalism.

2. Yes, Indian Communists are far superior to current Chinese so-called Communists because we don't push people into steel furnaces for losing money in stock markets. But Indian Communists do hang filthy dogs to send message to the right-wing, extremely Capitalist, extremely misogynist, irrational and genocidal people.

3. India being as it is is not the fault of Communists but of the continuing chaos-loving nature of the Hindutvadis. Please read here among my idea of how a harmonious city should be laid out, which is also opposite to the Chinese cities which are just cringey copies of Tokyo, New York and Dubai. Skyscrapers, flyovers, personal vehicles... ugly ! And we must remember that China now is among the three biggest polluters, the other two being India and USA.

 

[etylo]

1. The current CCP shouldn't claim Mao's revolution as the CCP has nothing of revolutionary ideas at all but is only a nationalist force with a red flag but which defends utter Capitalism.

2. Yes, Indian Communists are far superior to current Chinese so-called Communists because we don't push people into steel furnaces for losing money in stock markets. But Indian Communists do hang filthy dogs to send message to the right-wing, extremely Capitalist, extremely misogynist, irrational and genocidal people.

3. India being as it is is not the fault of Communists but of the continuing chaos-loving nature of the Hindutvadis. Please read here among my idea of how a harmonious city should be laid out, which is also opposite to the Chinese cities which are just cringey copies of Tokyo, New York and Dubai. Skyscrapers, flyovers, personal vehicles... ugly ! And we must remember that China now is among the three biggest polluters, the other two being India and USA.

Just delusional Indians whether you are communists or Hindus. When did Chinese copy Dubai, Chinese cities are built before Dubai new buildings come up, lol. Smell of typical Indian sour grapes, your slums are sure much more beautiful. Whether communist or Hindu Indians, all the same, you worship your American and British daddies, and now also Japanese daddies too.

 

[Azadkashmir]

communism was funded by rothschilds. it was a totalitarian dictatorship and ownership by state. your not allowed to own anything.

 

[jamahir]

Just delusional Indians whether you are communists or Hindus. When did Chinese copy Dubai, Chinese cities are built before Dubai new buildings come up, lol. Smell of typical Indian sour grapes, your slums are sure much more beautiful. Whether communist or Hindu Indians, all the same, you worship your American and British daddies, and now also Japanese daddies too.

Fool, I am a Muslim Communist. But I have met and spoken to Communists here who are of Hindu birth and Christian birth but how does this all matter ?

And sure, this is not a Chinese copy of Dubai at all :

And not a Disneyland copy :

communism was funded by rothschilds. it was a totalitarian dictatorship and ownership by state. your not allowed to own anything.

Yeah ? Let me see you, an ordinary British citizen, stand in your "democratic" British parliament ( choose from the two because one wouldn't do ) and give a speech on how the homelessness problem, hunger problem, healthcare problem and education system be rectified for Britishers instead of your government spending massive resources on UkroNazis. You will be ejected from that parliament in seconds.

 

[Azadkashmir]

Fool, I am a Muslim Communist. But I have met and spoken to Communists here who are of Hindu birth and Christian birth but how does this all matter ?

And sure, this is not a Chinese copy of Dubai at all :

And not a Disneyland copy :

Yeah ? Let me see you, an ordinary British citizen, stand in your "democratic" British parliament ( choose from the two because one wouldn't do ) and give a speech on how the homelessness problem, hunger problem, healthcare problem and education system be rectified for Britishers instead of your government spending massive resources on UkroNazis. You will be ejected from that parliament in seconds.

i am explaining this from historic point of view, the soviet union as an example.
obvously i as british citizen live a illusion of freedom and economic slavery setup by rothschilds.

 

[jamahir]

i am explaining this from historic point of view, the soviet union as an example.

True story or fake, doesn't matter. For decades the world was under threat of nuclear destruction brought by a possible war between Soviet Union and NATO. No Rothschild could have prevented Soviet Union from destroying Rothschild-residing cities in the Western bloc.

obvously i as british citizen live a illusion of freedom and economic slavery setup by rothschilds.

Indeed, you live in an illusion of freedom and in economic bondage, having lived thus for generations. But it is not a Rothschild ruling you but a Hindutvadi billionaire Capitalist who does gau puja, kicks out Larry the Cat and ignores the homeless sleeping on the footpaths of the country's capital London.

 

[Azadkashmir]

True story or fake, doesn't matter. For decades the world was under threat of nuclear destruction brought by a possible war between Soviet Union and NATO. No Rothschild could have prevented Soviet Union from destroying Rothschild-residing cities in the Western bloc.



Indeed, you live in an illusion of freedom and in economic bondage, having lived thus for generations. But it is not a Rothschild ruling you but a Hindutvadi billionaire Capitalist who does gau puja, kicks out Larry the Cat and ignores the homeless sleeping on the footpaths of the country's capital London.

it is the rothschild of city london, usury. rishi is a rich puppet. i live here i know. india isnt any better it is slum capital of the world ruled by hitler rss bjp types but unlike hitler they cannot produce any decent living for their citizens.

 

[etylo]

Fool, I am a Muslim Communist. But I have met and spoken to Communists here who are of Hindu birth and Christian birth but how does this all matter ?

And sure, this is not a Chinese copy of Dubai at all :

And not a Disneyland copy :

Yeah ? Let me see you, an ordinary British citizen, stand in your "democratic" British parliament ( choose from the two because one wouldn't do ) and give a speech on how the homelessness problem, hunger problem, healthcare problem and education system be rectified for Britishers instead of your government spending massive resources on UkroNazis. You will be ejected from that parliament in seconds.

So, you stupid, all modern buildings in the world look similar, so your slum India can stop building anything now. Besides, the two buildings look beautiful and your slum India can only dream of having a disneyland, but will never happen, just pure jealousy on your fool part.

 

[jamahir]

So, you stupid, all modern buildings in the world look similar, so your slum India can stop building anything now. Besides, the two buildings look beautiful and your slum India can only dream of having a disneyland, but will never happen, just pure jealousy on your fool part.

My post# 33 was in reply to you yet you didn't see there point# 3 where I called skyscrapers as ugly ? I will add dangerous and polluting too. But you seem to have seen my line just before the "ugly skyscrapers" one where I spoke of China copying Dubai and all, LOL.

Google for pictures of Bombay and you will find many skyscrapers there but I hate them. If you again read point# 3 I link to another post of mine where I describe how a city should look like. Read again, think and respond.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

My post# 33 was in reply to you yet you didn't see there point# 3 where I called skyscrapers as ugly ? I will add dangerous and polluting too. But you seem to have seen my line just before the "ugly skyscrapers" one where I spoke of China copying Dubai and all, LOL.

Google for pictures of Bombay and you will find many skyscrapers there but I hate them. If you again read point# 3 I link to another post of mine where I describe how a city should look like. Read again, think and respond.

China had proto-skyscrapers since the Tang Dynasty when cast iron from the first blast furnaces in history were used to construct pagoda structural elements.

Cast-iron architecture - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://inf.news/en/culture/177c87b31172fb000da71a5e4821285f.html

Cast iron was used as early as the 9th century in pagoda construction in Tang Dynasty China.[1] Texts written by the Japanese Buddhist monk Ennin describe in detail the cast-iron pagodas and statues widespread in China at the time. Persecution of Buddhism in China in the 840's led to the destruction of many of these structures.[1] The later Song Dynasty also built cast iron pagodas, exploiting its ability to be both structural and to be cast in any shape, such as in imitation of the timber and tiles of a standard pagoda. The 22m Iron Pagoda at the Yuquan Temple (Jade Springs Temple), Dangyang, Hubei, was built during the Song Dynasty in 1061, and is the most outstanding example to survive. Cast iron pagodas were then superseded by even more elaborate bronze ones, but cast iron continued to be used for decorative items such as bowls and statues.

It has nothing to do with Dubai.

 

[jamahir]

China had proto-skyscrapers since the Tang Dynasty when cast iron from the first blast furnaces in history were used to construct pagoda structural elements.

Cast-iron architecture - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://inf.news/en/culture/177c87b31172fb000da71a5e4821285f.html

It has nothing to do with Dubai.

By that logic the believing Hindus will claim they also had proto-skyscrapers, bigger than those Chinese pagodas :

So what's your point ?

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

By that logic the believing Hindus will claim they also had proto-skyscrapers, bigger than those Chinese pagodas :

So what's your point ?

were they made of brick, concrete or steel?

that temple looks ~10-15m tall going by people scale.

Liaodi Pagoda - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Meanwhile this is a 80 m tall brick structure built in the Song Dynasty.

Porcelain Tower of Nanjing - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This was a 80 m x 30 m skyscraper style ceramic structure built in the Ming Dynasty.

China had proto-socialism as well with Mohism, the state owned salt enterprise and state owned grain enterprise, as noted before. Meanwhile India had a literal genetic caste system, a precursor to eugenics and fascism.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Lol

Just delusional Indians whether you are communists or Hindus. When did Chinese copy Dubai, Chinese cities are built before Dubai new buildings come up, lol. Smell of typical Indian sour grapes, your slums are sure much more beautiful. Whether communist or Hindu Indians, all the same, you worship your American and British daddies, and now also Japanese daddies too.

Jamahir is a diehard communist. The type your Mao will be proud of. Moreover, if you know him well you will realise that he is very anti U S/U.K/West and anti capitalist/anti India ruling parties . So to be honest you cant label him as a western lapdog or whatever funny names you might come up with.

Moreover, he is right on one thing China has long abandon communism and everything Mao stood for and adopted a very capitalistic system. Since China realised that communism/Maoism failed the country. CCP today is just the name and the soviet commie flag left symbol. Nothing about them is communist and they themselves don't believe in their own commie ideology one bit. Lol in fact if Mao was alive today he will probably have had most of your leadership today wiped out and persecuted for treason and as capitalist lapdogs. Lol The CCP just maintain the symbolic name because they inherited power through mao's communist revolution, so they can only follow the current party name/set up to carry on with their legitimacy. If not how else can they justify their continous rule and a change in their honorary name/identity as a party ?