China To Induct JF-17 Thunder into Its Air Force: President Mamnoon Hussain

[Superboy]

Does JF-17 have enough range to meet PLAAF's requirement?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Very pithy. I could have sworn you had a double dose of jalapeno peppers prior to writing this.But then again why so much disdain towards the pride of Pakistan the " jadeed Tareen laraaka bumbaar tayyara"

hey I did show my pride to our Crescent didnt I? it by far outclasses any relics other than the F-16s we got in our fleet.
and we wont even sell it to Ayatullahs because our King in KSA wont be pleased

 

[siegecrossbow]

China has remained on the fence regarding the program, with no PLAAF orders to date. Their air force appears to be more focused on their 4+ generation J-10 design, which offers more advanced capabilities and aerodynamics.

However, the JF-17 remains a candidate to replace large numbers of PLAAF MiG-17s (J-5) and MiG-19s (J-6/ Q-5), if the PLAAF decides it needs to take steps to maintain the size of its force.

A reply to you and, by extension, MastaKhan.

First of all J-5s and J-6s have been retired for close to a decade now. The few that remain in service are trainers. I do get your point, since there are still many J-7s and J-8s that will need replacement.

The problem is that when you move from second and third gen fighters to fourth and, hopefully in a few years, fifth gen fighters, you don't necessarily need one to one replacement. Take the J-7, for instance. While it is a small, rugged design with (after numerous aerodynamic changes) good aerial handling, it has a very short range, prompting the nickname "airfield defender" in Chinese military fan circles. A single J-10 could defend a much larger area than even the latest J-7 variant.

Second of all, if you want to maintain the size of force - which I presume to be the number of pilots and maintenance staff - you don't need to maintain a whole bunch of planes just to do this. There are more economically viable methods like using advanced trainers and advanced simulators. As a matter of fact a great deal of NATO pilots weigh simulator training heavily since they could simulate a great deal of complex manoeuvres at a fraction of the cost of using the real thing (also has the added benefit of saving airframe maintenance costs).

To me, maintaining a large sized force is just not enough of a justification for introducing JF-17s, especially considering the alternatives.

 

[MastanKhan]

ROFL
wish people could comprehend your blasphemy here.
they will be so butt hurt that they will bleed out of their larger intestines to death.
the only remarkable think I see on JF17 is the crescent on its tail.
thats where I stop and wait for the onslaught.
wish I had your 9 lives.

Irfan,

I too wonder about the 9 lives thing. I must have an angel watching over my shoulders.

But then when you get older---even your kids say--- don't worry about 'Abbaji'---he is gone senile in his old age. Just let him talk.

 

[MastanKhan]

Oscar,

Two thirds of Chinese aircraft in their Air Force don't have any roles to fill in this day and age. They are just simply and purely redundant and they are for show. China cannot get rid of them, because it has nothing else to fill in with large numbers until they increase the production line.

They keep flying those aircraft, but they are flying pigeons and be taken out in a turkey shoot.

5th gen is not the answer. Neither can China afford the numbers nor the maintenance costs for the numbers required. 4 and 4.5 gen are the answer with a better EW package and with more potent bvr and wvr and off bore sight missile that can counter the fifth gen technology.

One more thing I would want to add is----China should have ordered more su30 s from Russia. Where it is at today, and it's current relations with its neighbors, chinese Air Force is woefully short of high end aircraft. Actually for a country of its size, the Chinese air force is in a pathetic position.

I believe that their mentality of copying the Russian design and living on it would take them down in an immediate conflict.

I believe that the Chinese have literally blundered into a sort of a dead end due to over optimistic estimate of their manufacturing and aircraft building capabilities.

 

[aliaselin]

A reply to you and, by extension, MastaKhan.

First of all J-5s and J-6s have been retired for close to a decade now. The few that remain in service are trainers. I do get your point, since there are still many J-7s and J-8s that will need replacement.

The problem is that when you move from second and third gen fighters to fourth and, hopefully in a few years, fifth gen fighters, you don't necessarily need one to one replacement. Take the J-7, for instance. While it is a small, rugged design with (after numerous aerodynamic changes) good aerial handling, it has a very short range, prompting the nickname "airfield defender" in Chinese military fan circles. A single J-10 could defend a much larger area than even the latest J-7 variant.

Second of all, if you want to maintain the size of force - which I presume to be the number of pilots and maintenance staff - you don't need to maintain a whole bunch of planes just to do this. There are more economically viable methods like using advanced trainers and advanced simulators. As a matter of fact a great deal of NATO pilots weigh simulator training heavily since they could simulate a great deal of complex manoeuvres at a fraction of the cost of using the real thing (also has the added benefit of saving airframe maintenance costs).

To me, maintaining a large sized force is just not enough of a justification for introducing JF-17s, especially considering the alternatives.

I think this is a big misunderstanding for our country's policy. In our country, increasing designation of troops is very, very hard, even when it is neccessary for defending our core interests. So PLAAF will never cancel any troops forwardly if there is no economic issue, and the old J7s and J8s will be replaced by aircrafts of 1:1 ratio. I don't know how they will solve this problem, and JF-17 could be an option.

 

[Lil Mathew]

'Pak Millitary Review' is a blog na?? Any other credible sources??

 

[Genesis]

This is the entire news from a News Agency and not a third party report
China to sell helicopters to Pakistan: Mamnoon - thenews.com.pk

I am bewildered at this statement.

Yes, the only manufacturing line for the JF-17 is in Pakistan, but as such it is from Chinese soft loans and every JF-17 we buy pays China. If any one else buys the JF-17 they pay to PAC and China. But if China buys it from Pakistan they pay part to us and themselves... yet as a local product.. I dont see how it boosts the international image?
To top it off, the Chinese already have the sister product of the JF-17 known as the FC-1. That was part of the deal.. so why the hell wont China just make the FC-1? The only reason it wont do that is if the factory in Chengdu is occupied with doing other stuff.. and that is the only if in it.


The more interesting statement is about the helicopters..have the Chinese decided to gift us a gunship?

I have no source, and it's only my guess, but I think the current China Pakistan weapon deals would be more co-production than straight up sale. I think this is the model China wants to use.

First China is all hands on deck to combat the US, that would mean little room to manufacture for others.

Then China does want a market for weapons, but today weapon sales is not so much price to quality, or quality, but political. Pakistan being a Muslim nation is better situated to be the face of weapon systems.

Third I think China is resigned to the fact our weapon costs are going up by a huge margin, J-10B costs 55 million dollars, J-11B I think 60-70 million, that's about that's not a lot cheaper than US fighters, and being slightly inferior in range and weapons, it's about the same price. So We could be making a few key components, like engine, radar, and software, etc while Pakistan can make and design the rest to keep cost of the weapon system down, at the same time have some revenue coming in.


Also China still have too many J-7 variants and other crap. A few hundred JF-17 block 3 could be a very good solution to our fighter problems, and to help mature the Pakistan manufacturing sector.

My suspicion is we are waiting for engine to be mature within 2 years before we start inducting into PLAFF.

 

[Sankpal]

China never will induct 3.5 gen fighter plane. They are developing 4.5 & 5 gen plane and also JF!7 does fit in China requirement.

China have money unlike PAk so they will definitely go with better option..

 

[Nishan_101]

WOW, Check out the real news about China and Pakistan jointly developing Submarines. All the expertise Pakistan developed by manufacturing Agosta 90 will come in handy in this Joint Venture. China is helping Pakistan learn Technology at a amazing speed.



President Mamnoon Hussain has described his visit to China as successful. Pakistani President said that Chinese side has agreed to induct FC-1/JF-17 Thunder fighter jets into its Air Force. This will help in bringing the per unit price down and increase the chances of grabbing export orders. He also added that China will continue to cooperate on the JF-17 project.

China has also agreed to extend its cooperation in fighting against terrorism and will supply Pakistan army with helicopters. China and Pakistan will also soon finalize contract to jointly develop and produce submarines for Pakistan Navy.

China will also install two 1100 MW nuclear power plants in Karachi and another three will be installed in other parts of the country.


Read more: China To Induct JF-17 Thunder into Its Air Force: President Mamnoon Hussain | Pakistan Military Review

Hopefully PN and China will develop good classes of Submarines together.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Hopefully PN and China will develop good classes of Submarines together.

Absolutely. China has tremendous experience with Russian Designs of Romeo and Kilo Class submarines and have further improved designs with their own Technology. Pakistan will bring their knowledge of Western Submarines Technology based on skills learned from Manufacturing Agosta 90.

Whenever Pakistan and China put their heads together, the result is a strong and deadly Product...

 

[MastanKhan]

China never will induct 3.5 gen fighter plane. They are developing 4.5 & 5 gen plane and also JF!7 does fit in China requirement.

China have money unlike PAk so they will definitely go with better option..

Hi,

The fifth gen aircraft is around ten twelve to fifteen years away at the minimum for deployment in numbers that will make a difference.


Out of cleverness, china has put itself in a quandary. At first buying the su30 and then making copies. Today it does not have to numbers to even face Taiwan let alone Taiwan and Japan. Taiwan alone would smash Chinese Air Force. Their only problem is that they cannot endure the barrage of cruise missiles that would destroy the airfields and industry.

If you include Japanese Air Force combined with Taiwanese, the Chinese will be totally smashed. China should have kept its development going full throttle on their local research, but they should have contd buying the su30's.

As of today, our F16 BLK 52 is supposedly more advanced than anything that the Chinese have in their Air Force. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If I am correct then the Chinese have miserably failed. One wonders why nations like Vietnam and Philippines are not bowing down to the Chinese , because the Chinese have no force to project except of manpower.

The truth is that the Chinese have totally and truly fcucked up. The first gulf war was a shocking eye opener for the Chinese when they saw the Americans smash the Iraqi armor. That just pulverized the Chinese. That's when they realized the true might of the u s of a.

 

[syedali73]

Today it does not have to numbers to even face Taiwan let alone Taiwan and Japan. Taiwan alone would smash Chinese Air Force.

Taiwan Airforce Strength (Fighters) ....................Chinese Airforce Strength (Fighters):

F-16 A/B Block 20: 144 .............................................Shenyang J-11: 140
Mirage 2000-5EI/DI: 55 .............................................Su-30MKK/MK2: 76/23 = 99
F-CK-1A/B: 136.........................................................Su-27SK/UBK: 76
F-5E/F: 32/32 = 64....................................................Chengdu J-10: 200
...................................................................................Xian JH-7: 72
...................................................................................Shenyang J-8: 180

OK, if you say so. J-11 and Su-30MKK/MK2 cant even face F-16 blk20 and M2000 respectively? Su-27 and J-10 together cant even take up F-CK and F-5E/F.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

China never will induct 3.5 gen fighter plane. They are developing 4.5 & 5 gen plane and also JF!7 does fit in China requirement.

China have money unlike PAk so they will definitely go with better option..

and I thought my post was trolling
boy you even beat me.

for the benefit of others, who have read about Chinese still flying 2nd generation aeroplanes so as Mastan has said the JF-17 (which is 3.5 Generation according to your classification) will be about more than twice as good as those F6s and J5s etc.

boy I am impressed if with the current configuration JF-17 is 3.5 generation then what will be its 4th Generation version capable of?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

As of today, our F16 BLK 52 is supposedly more advanced than anything that the Chinese have in their Air Force. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If I am correct then the Chinese have miserably failed. One wonders why nations like Vietnam and Philippines are not bowing down to the Chinese , because the Chinese have no force to project except of manpower.

The truth is that the Chinese have totally and truly fcucked up. The first gulf war was a shocking eye opener for the Chinese when they saw the Americans smash the Iraqi armor. That just pulverized the Chinese. That's when they realized the true might of the u s of a.

I agree F-16 block 52 can pretty much dominate anything that Chinese can through at it no disrespect meant but please ... air war is not about being politically correct.

and their Achilles heel is the communist party, I know it will butt hurt my Chinese friends but the things you just listed state the obvious that over ambitious and border line lunacy sometimes rules the collective logic of the party members I can give many examples but I dont need to do so. the situation is not as dire as is in failed states like ours but time is of the essence and thats what is not on Chinese side. apologies for the lack of term but the shameless and blatant copying of entire Russian Sukhoi's hasn't helped, I dont know if Russians will be too keep to sell their 4.5 generation jets now as they did earlier.

I feel compelled to put some cold bandages on the hurt egos so I will finish with this that the West has been appreciative of J-10s and J-10 Bs Super J-10s as they call them but even the second tier aircrafts like F-16s , Hornets etc can easily take them.