China sends note to UN chief to clarify Xisha situation

[Kyle Sun]

If PM Dong letter had included these words "China 12nm claims (including islands)", then it would have been no further arguements.

We never twist the letter.

I think we have explained this very clear in my post.

China made a claim of 12nm water territory and emphasized this claim was applied to all land including Spartly island .

It was very clear , including "Spartly Island"

Your PM send official diplomatic letter to China , recognised our claim .

It was also very clear.

And diplomatic affair is not child game or chess. You can not retract a bad move .

No one cares about your PM was forced or voluntary to send the letter , we only care about what he said.

 

[xesy]

If you can't read the title of the map then you're not qualified to discuss it,I have already explained it multiple times why certain Qing provinces and lands are not included.

You need degrees to discuss things over the net? I thought you were American.
Anyway, that map is presented by Vietnam side as evidence that China did not include the islands as part of the country. Disaproving that map does not mean the opposiste is true. China has to display a map of the same period or before to completely throw down Vietnam arguement.

 

[Grand Historian]

You need degrees to discuss things over the net? I thought you were American.
Anyway, that map is presented by Vietnam side as evidence that China did not include the islands as part of the country. Disaproving that map does not mean the opposiste is true. China has to display a map of the same period or before to completely throw down Vietnam arguement.

My nationality doesn't matter one bit,I will lambast any Vietnamese distortions I find.

Using a flawed conjecture based on ignorance is not proof,its blatant dishonesty.

You don't need a degree anyone able to read Hanzi should understand the meaning of the map.

I have already showed Qing era maps in an earlier thread.

KirovAirship has also shown me an article that states that Vietnamese claims different islands than the Chinese Nansha and Xisha.

 

[Kyle Sun]

1958, there was UNCLOS I, it was about 12 miles of territorial water, stated in UNCLOS I. In this time China was not member of UN. so China govt supported it.

Letter of PM agreed on 12 miles only. He didn't mentioned about Islands.

China PRC and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Accords 1954. Both have to known that Islands belong to South Vietnam. North Vietnam didn't have right about Island of South Vietnam after 1954.

We made a claim which including islands.

Your PM send a official diplomatic letter to recognise it .

That means Viet agreed with our 12nm territorial water of Spartly .

No, I found it appear very much in Chinese pathetic net fiction, with main char's just like some guy on here ...
Nobody "admitted" anything, read that again, again and again, nothing like that was mention about ...

So your PM never send official diplomatic letter ?

 

[NiceGuy]

VN rejects China’s diplomatic note at UN
Posted on JUNE 12, 2014 Written by CHINHPHU LEAVE A COMMENT

VGP – Viet Nam has rejected China’s diplomatic note at the UnitedNations Headquarters in New York, the US, urging Beijing to withdraw its drilling rig and stop “interfering” with maritime safety in an ongoing territorial row.


Photo: Dantri.vn

The information was released by the Agence France-Presse (AFP). The press agency revealed that the Vietnamese mission asked its positioned paper to be circulated to the General Assembly after China sought support at the United Nations on Monday.


The conflict in the East Sea happened as China has illegally placed the drilling rig Haiyang Shiyou 981 in Viet Nam’s exclusive economic zone and continental shelf on May 2.

Viet Nam demanded that China withdraw the oil rig, “escort vessels from Viet Nam’s maritime zones and stop all activities that areinterfering with maritime safety and security, and affecting regionalpeace and security,” said the Vietnamese document.

The document also proclaimed that the Vietnamese Government has urged China to hold governmental-level negotiation immediately on the sovereignty of the disputed waters.

In the documents sent to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, China vilified that Viet Nam crashed into Chinese vessels more than 1,400 times near the drilling rig Haiyang Shiyou 981 in the East Sea.

However, Viet Nam has hit back the Chinese accuse, asserting that China can not give out any proof of the accuse. Meanwhile, Viet Nam has announced a number of images and videos to prove that China has rammed and fired water cannons at the Vietnamese fisheries surveillance force, Viet Nam Coast Guard ships and fishing boats.

Especially on May 26, aChinese fishing boat rammed and sank a Vietnamese fishing ship with 10 fishermen on board in the Vietnamese territorial waters. All the crewmembers were later rescued by other Vietnamese fishing boats.
Việt Nam bác bỏ tài liệu của Trung Quốc tại Liên Hợp Quốc - VnExpress

All China say r Lie, only idiot believe we ram China ship when China dont have any videos clip to prove that.

 

[Soryu]

We made a claim which including islands.

Your PM send a official diplomatic letter to recognise it .

That means Viet agreed with our 12nm territorial water of Spartly .

So your PM never send official diplomatic letter ?

You have problem with read and understand my words, buddy !?

 

[jkroo]

Good, we r waiting for ur strike now. Let see coward and poorly trained China army can make any different with 1979 war

This time China dont have JP-US daddy suport like in 1979, so if u lose, ur economy will collapse

China is an independent and confident country.

Look, mighty Vietnam beat US, JP, FR, CN time to time. The strongest country on earth as I have to admit.

US JP AU is now in VN and maybe they got the son named Vietnam.

You poor logic people don't deserve logical argument.

 

[Peter]

Er, even Chinese and Vietnamese scholars are debating about this letter, and they haven't come to an agreement. There are different opions coming from third parties too, so let the scholar do the work eh? Either you or me cannot outsmart them.

By circumstance I mean that given the circumstance at that time, some of our decisions were made hastely. PM Dong must have never dreamt that his letter of good wills can be twisted to used as a tool to fight against Vietnam. At that time even the land border between the two countries was not made clear, then do you think Vietnamese govt cared about disputed islands (between North Vietnam, South Vietnam and China)? Vietnam made the US enemy already, could not risk to anger China at the same time. That's why the letter was vague about 12nm claims. If PM Dong letter had included these words "China 12nm claims (including islands)", then it would have been no further arguements.

Xesy, either you can't read Vietnamese or have no logic in understanding a simple "recognized and agreed" phrase from your formal PM Pham Van Dong's letter.

Accept the fact, but that is not the end of it, rather September 4th, 1958 Declaration of China still had no sovereignty over many islands as it stated in that declaration. Furthermore, China and Vietnam:

"China (or Vietnam) would not be allowed to establish archipelagic straight baselines around the Paracel Islands, since the LOS Convention is quite clear in stating that an archipelagic State "means a State constituted wholly by one or more archipelagoes and may include other islands." And, an archipelago "means a group of islands, including parts of islands, interconnecting waters and other natural features which are so closely interrelated that such islands, waters and other natural features form an intrinsic geographic, economic and political, or which historically have been regarded as such". As continental states, China and Vietnam cannot establish archipelagic straight baselines around islands belonging to them. "

Because,

"the Xisha (Paracel) Islands are also claimed by Vietnam. The analysis in this paper of China's straight baseline claim around these islands does not necessarily reflect a recognition by the United States Government of China's sovereignty to these islands."

 

[Kyle Sun]

You have problem with read and understand my words, buddy !?

Okay let's stop the useless argument.

 

[Rechoice]

No it didn't,the first source (ie Zhushu Jinian) to mention Yuechang didn't mention Yuechang's location therefore the Han era practice of labeling Southern Vietnam as Yuechang is groundless.

There is no evidence that the pre Cham natives of Yuechang spoke Vietnamese what we do know is that they spoke Mon Khmer and that the bulk of the Cham population was of native stock not Austronesian.

Tracing the Austronesian Footprint in Mainland Southeast Asia: A Perspective from Mitochondrial DNA
"Comparing the Chams with other Southeast Asian populations reveals that the Chams had a closer affinity with the Mon–Khmer populations in MSEA than with the Austronesian populations from Island Southeast Asia (ISEA)."

Ancient "Vietnamese" were restricted to the Red River Delta of Jiaozhi commandery while the the other commanderies of Jiuzhen,Rinan and Hepu were of Li(裡) stock.

Furthermore ancient "Vietnamese" claim descent from Luo(雒) not Li.

Everytime you echo the Hung King myth your credibility grows dimmer.


Come back when Vietnamese can understand Hanzi

The Cham people of modern Vietnam and Cambodia are the remnants of this former kingdom. They speak the Cham languages, a subgrouping of Malayo-Polynesian closely related to the Malayic and Bali–Sasak languages.

Champa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Chamic languages, also known as Aceh–Chamic and Achinese–Chamic, are a group of ten languages spoken in Aceh (Sumatra, Indonesia) and in parts of Cambodia, Vietnam, Hainan, classified as Malayic languages in the Austronesian language family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aceh–Chamic_languages

Yuechang people direct descendants are included: Ba Na, Ca Tu, Pa Co, Pears etc, they are living in Montage of Vietnam, Who are speaking Mon/Khmer language..

• Ba Na: bao gồm vào khoảng 30 ngôn ngữ tại Campuchia, Lào và Việt Nam với khoảng 700.000 người sử dụng.
• Cơ Tu (Ka Tu): bao gồm vào khoảng 14 ngôn ngữ tại miền trung Lào và Việt Nam, đông bắc Thái Lan. Có khoảng 1,3 triệu người sử dụng.
• Pacoh tại miền trung Lào và có lẽ cả ở Tây Nguyên của Việt Nam.
• Nhánh Pear: bao gồm vài ngôn ngữ tại miền nam Campuchia, mặc dù một số nhà ngôn ngữ nghi ngờ việc đưa các ngôn ngữ Pear vào gần với tiếng Khmer.

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nhóm_ngôn_ngữ_Môn-Khmer

 

[Rechoice]

We made a claim which including islands.
Your PM send a official diplomatic letter to recognise it .
That means Viet agreed with our 12nm territorial water of Spartly .

China is lie.

He didn't mentioned Paracel and Spratly Islands which belong to South Vietnam. China and North Vietnam signed in to Geneva Accords 1954, China have to know that.

In fact with claiming to Islands of South Vietnam in 1958, China violated Geneva Accords 1954, what China has signed.

Letter of PM PVD is acknowledgement, not agreement like acknowledgement of USA to Geneva Accords 1954, and USA didn't signed in and do not have responsibility to follow or obey it..

PM PVD did the same. He agree with 12 nm only, he didn't mentioned islands in his latter.

 

[Soryu]

No matter what proof we have and they have with Paracel and Spratly Islands. They want 90% SCS inside 9-dash-lines, include those Islands ...

Chinese never can explain what the hell was 9-dash-lines (11-dash-lines, but later 2 lines were deleted in Gulf Tonkin location on the map).

 

[jkroo]

Liar is always like to put his finger at others no matter what he had said or had done. Dirty words and tricks even the credibility could be used as a tool to achieve their goals. What a misery.

Vietnamese have shown their strengths to damage and destroy foreign companies and I also wonder:

1. How many companies were break down by Vietnamese?

2. How many Vietnamese criminals participate in the roit?

3. What the total loses of foreign companies during the roit?

4. How many workers are laid off by the roit and how many criminals are put in prison?

5. What is the hard working that Vietnam gov is doing to improve investment circumstances?

6. How many compensations that Vietnam gov has paid to the company and the individual?

To be honest, I won't expect Vietnamese to answer above questions correctly but I hope someone could consider these questions seriously.

 

[xunzi]

Xesy, either you can't read Vietnamese or have no logic in understanding a simple "recognized and agreed" phrase from your formal PM Pham Van Dong's letter.

Accept the fact, but that is not the end of it, rather September 4th, 1958 Declaration of China still had no sovereignty over many islands as it stated in that declaration. Furthermore, China and Vietnam:

"China (or Vietnam) would not be allowed to establish archipelagic straight baselines around the Paracel Islands, since the LOS Convention is quite clear in stating that an archipelagic State "means a State constituted wholly by one or more archipelagoes and may include other islands." And, an archipelago "means a group of islands, including parts of islands, interconnecting waters and other natural features which are so closely interrelated that such islands, waters and other natural features form an intrinsic geographic, economic and political, or which historically have been regarded as such". As continental states, China and Vietnam cannot establish archipelagic straight baselines around islands belonging to them. "

Because,

"the Xisha (Paracel) Islands are also claimed by Vietnam. The analysis in this paper of China's straight baseline claim around these islands does not necessarily reflect a recognition by the United States Government of China's sovereignty to these islands."

That is the position of the USA, a party that didn't even ratify UNCLOS but certainly have a very big mouth.

If you read further, there are two points raised in that bold statement. 1) We never claim it as an archipelagic baseline. We claimed it was territorial baseline. 2) The fact the US added "Vietnam", an irrelevant state in Paracel as they hold no reef or any territory in that island chain, demonstrate bad fate and double-standard. I would also like to remind you that the US insists on Hawaii's EEZ when the US is also a continental state.

 

[EastSea]

Liar is always like to put his finger at others no matter what he had said or had done. Dirty words and tricks even the credibility could be used as a tool to achieve their goals. What a misery.

Vietnamese have shown their strengths to damage and destroy foreign companies and I also wonder:

1. How many companies were break down by Vietnamese?

2. How many Vietnamese criminals participate in the roit?

3. What the total loses of foreign companies during the roit?

4. How many workers are laid off by the roit and how many criminals are put in prison?

5. What is the hard working that Vietnam gov is doing to improve investment circumstances?

6. How many compensations that Vietnam gov has paid to the company and the individual?

To be honest, I won't expect Vietnamese to answer above questions correctly but I hope someone could consider these questions seriously.

What is hell in China. Chinese destoyed Japanese Markets, factories etc in China.

...