China’s Anti-Carrier Ballistic Missile Now Opposite Taiwan | Bloomberg

[gambit]

There are actually more, most Chinese member think when they have a range of 1900 mile, then they can hit target within 1900 mile to it. Most of them (Actually, all of them) do not even know the "Push and Pull" effect.

While they have their DF-21, we have our destroyer and sub are capable firing Tomahawk from a range of 900-1000 nmi.

Unless they can hit our destroyer and sub with their DF-21 too, they will need to move their missile further inland. Anywhere form 500 nmi to 1000 nmi to avoid the threat of being destroyed by our destroyer and sub. Thus what you left is 500-700 nmi range with the DF-21.

This is what I read in the defence report stating why DF-21 are of no thread, but hey, that's only my word.

The Chinese members with no military experience cannot grasp complex relationships between platforms and how to use the best threat to force exposure of weaknesses. They cannot understand why we have the F-111 plus cruise missiles, for example.

 

[jhungary]

The Chinese members with no military experience cannot grasp complex relationships between platforms and how to use the best threat to force exposure of weaknesses. They cannot understand why we have the F-111 plus cruise missiles, for example.

lol........The push and pull effect is not that complicated.......I think even people played some computer game would understand

But then again, people claim a lot of things, in the end of the day, there are nothing in this world you cannot counter....

 

[Luftwaffe]

There are actually more, most Chinese member think when they have a range of 1900 mile, then they can hit target within 1900 mile to it. Most of them (Actually, all of them) do not even know the "Push and Pull" effect.

While they have their DF-21, we have our destroyer and sub are capable firing Tomahawk from a range of 900-1000 nmi.

Unless they can hit our destroyer and sub with their DF-21 too, they will need to move their missile further inland. Anywhere form 500 nmi to 1000 nmi to avoid the threat of being destroyed by our destroyer and sub. Thus what you left is 500-700 nmi range with the DF-21.

This is what I read in the defence report stating why DF-21 are of no thread, but hey, that's only my word.

You are going close to your enemy, enemy is not coming to y our home they have more then enough firepower you are sitting ducks because non of your allies like Japan or S. Korea is going to allow US to station their assets in war time because it unnecessarily put them homeland at risk of being wiped out no goverment in their sane minds would allow that so you are going to be on your own.

As far as sub and destroyers are concerned they do that their Naval Assets from Destroyers to Submarines, did you not think of it. Not even US would post the accurate range of their ballistic missiles.

 

[jhungary]

You are going close to your enemy, enemy is not coming to y our home they have more then enough firepower you are sitting ducks because non of your allies like Japan or S. Korea is going to allow US to station their assets in war time because it unnecessarily put them homeland at risk of being wiped out no goverment in their sane minds would allow that so you are going to be on your own.

As far as sub and destroyers are concerned they do that their Naval Assets from Destroyers to Submarines, did you not think of it. Not even US would post the accurate range of their ballistic missiles.

Dude, we already station our asset in those place, and will continue do so even at war time. This is the meaning of the "Defence Pact" Or you are going to tell you a Pakistani will tell how the South Korean and Japan move. Or you are knowing stuff that I don't know and can see into the future??

In the case of DF-21, the whole point is, we do not need to get close to reach the Chinese PLUS we have other surface asset. This is a simple push and pull effect, you cannot expect to deploy the DF-21 near your coast and you expect NOTHING WILL EVER HAPPEN TO THEM.

In the case of Sub and Destroyer. You need to know how long it take for any of the Naval Asset to cover 500 nautical mile. it take more than 8 hours to cover those (Given a ship can do 40 nmi overheat an hours) and a cruise missile can reach land from sea at about 15 second this far out. It's not about their asset vs our asset, but it's all about response time, or unless you are trying to tell me the Chinese Naval Ship have teleport capability.

If you think like this then you are overestimating the US Naval Strike Capability meanwhile Overestimating the Chinese Strike capability.

Dude, if you have theory counter my F/A-18 fuel range, I am all ears, but if you are coming at me with your hair-brain theory like this, then well, I would have to say "I bid you farewell, sir"

 

[danger007]

The US military has no idea where our DF-21D's are.... and it's making you Viet Americans (you both) feel sooooo inferior.

Inferior? to whom? common you are watching the world with closed eyes...

 

[Viper0011.]

The US military has no idea where our DF-21D's are.... and it's making you Viet Americans (you both) feel sooooo inferior.

This thread has become a waste of time and the statement above just sounds silly and childish. People come to these forums to exchange ideas and to learn about stuff. Here, you have people acting like 12 year old trying to act adults through military discussions and silly patriotism!!I asked a bunch of questions but no Chinese member can answer one of them.

When was the DF-21 "D" tested? Did the international community monitor and reported such a test on a moving targets? For you guys to claim these grandiose ideas about its accuracy and reach....it requires many, many tests. Where's the success data?? Can you point to an independent report? and not to the PARTY published crap please?

The US has been working on the missile defense shield for over two decades now (much longer on the initial ones, and over TWO decades on the current ones that are entirely integrated through AEGIS). And you guys hit a stationary solid piece of metal with your missile and there is sooo much noise as if the missile turns into an anti-ship superman after flight? Please point me to flight test - trial data. If you can't, quit acting silly and let's not waste time. We'll talk when the facts walk!!

 

[dbc]

The only thing you conscript rejects know about the DF-21D is how to lay out the initials.

Do you want to explain to these 'conscript rejects' how heat and vibration degrades RADAR performance (terminal guidance)? Do you want to explain why the MARS Curiosity reentry vehicle jettisoned its heat shield before attempting a radar guided landing? Do you want to explain the term 'ionization blackouts' caused by atmospheric compression?
Do you want to explain why billions of dollars were spent improving inertial navigation systems?

 

[gambit]

Do you want to explain to these 'conscript rejects' how heat and vibration degrades RADAR performance (terminal guidance)? Do you want to explain why the MARS Curiosity reentry vehicle jettisoned its heat shield before attempting a radar guided landing? Do you want to explain the term 'ionization blackouts' caused by atmospheric compression?
Do you want to explain why billions of dollars were spent improving inertial navigation systems?

Those things do not exist in the Chinese alter-verse.

When I was younger I used to read some fiction, including science fiction and fantasy. One of my favorites was 'Celestial Matters' where Greece and China went to war, as in ancient Greek and ancient China, and the physics of geocentrism rules.

Macmillan: Full Excerpt for Celestial Matters: Books: Richard Garfinkle

The dragon looped above the cloud, then furled its wings and plunged straight down toward the merchantman. On the tips of the aircraft’s wings its twin silver Xi lances vibrated, roiling the ocean with waves of invisible fury.

The Xi lances, still protruding like claws from the broken wings of the dragon, shattered under the strain of the angry wheel. Silver shards rained down on the deck, biting into the loinclothed sailors. I threw my arm across my face and a dozen needles stabbed into my forearm instead of putting out my eyes.

The Xi lances are Chinese weapons based upon 'Chinese physics'. Debating the Chinese members here reminded me of that book.

 

[gambit]

Here is the question:

How is it that the international community missed all those DF-21D open water testing in the Pacific?

First...International launch notification agreements...

Ballistic Missile Launch Notification Agreement

The Agreement on Notifications of ICBM and SLBM Launches, signed during the 1988 Moscow Summit, reflects the continuing interest of the United States and the Soviet Union in reducing the risk of nuclear war as a result of misinterpretation, miscalculation, or accident.

For example...China and Russia have one such agreement...

China, Russia Agree on Launch Notification | Arms Control Association

China and Russia signed an agreement Oct. 13 to notify each other of impending ballistic missile launches.

The details basically spelled out that if any launches are greater than 2000 km distance towards the direction of a treaty partner, said partner is entitled to a launch notification to avoid confusion and misunderstanding.

Second...China have limited open water testing areas -- only the Pacific Ocean. China cannot test launch to the east because of Japan and Korea. China cannot test launch to the south into the South China Sea because of high and concentrated shipping traffic. That leave only the southeast direction between Japan and the Philippines islands.

So how is it that satellites completely missed all those open water testings?

 

[Psyops]

Here is the question:

How is it that the international community missed all those DF-21D open water testing in the Pacific?

First...International launch notification agreements...

Ballistic Missile Launch Notification Agreement

For example...China and Russia have one such agreement...

China, Russia Agree on Launch Notification | Arms Control Association

The details basically spelled out that if any launches are greater than 2000 km distance towards the direction of a treaty partner, said partner is entitled to a launch notification to avoid confusion and misunderstanding.

Second...China have limited open water testing areas -- only the Pacific Ocean. China cannot test launch to the east because of Japan and Korea. China cannot test launch to the south into the South China Sea because of high and concentrated shipping traffic. That leave only the southeast direction between Japan and the Philippines islands.

So how is it that satellites completely missed all those open water testings?

The Df-21D cannot be tracked, that's the whole point. That's why the US is so scared of this game changing weapon. The Yanks cannot detect it let alone shoot it down.
This weapon is an incredible invention and will change how naval warfare is conducted forever.

 

[dbc]

The reason why China joined the war was because they wanted a proxy state and a buffer zone. Since Beijing was near, including several factories, Mao wanted to use North Korea like a shield. Anyway, they did not want to take over South Korea, and also the UN forces quickly fled south.

The Chinese laid siege to Seoul (Third Battle of Seoul /Chinese New Year's Offensive). How can you say they had no intention of taking over South Korea? Then why were they trying to capture the South Korean capital Seoul?

The Df-21D cannot be tracked, that's the whole point. That's why the US is so scared of this game changing weapon. The Yanks cannot detect it let alone shoot it down.
This weapon is an incredible invention and will change how naval warfare is conducted forever.

You are an embarrassment to China.

 

[Viper0011.]

The Df-21D cannot be tracked, that's the whole point. That's why the US is so scared of this game changing weapon. The Yanks cannot detect it let alone shoot it down.
This weapon is an incredible invention and will change how naval warfare is conducted forever.

You are absolutely correct. No missile can be "tracked" if its sitting idle in its silo. So let's get back to the real question. When it DID fly, how did you, the mighty and interesting Chinese track it??? If it CAN'T be tracked....how do you know if it actually hit a target vs. hitting someone's gf in a bikini at the beach??? lol. Do answer. I am curious to know how you guys tracked something that, a Super Power, about three decades more advanced than you couldn't track.........

 

[gambit]

You are absolutely correct. No missile can be "tracked" if its sitting idle in its silo. So let's get back to the real question. When it DID fly, how did you, the mighty and interesting Chinese track it??? If it CAN'T be tracked....how do you know if it actually hit a target vs. hitting someone's gf in bikini at the beach??? lol. Do answer. I am curious to know how you guys tracked something that, a Super Power, about three decades more advanced then you couldn't track.........

Because of 'Chinese physics', like in the fantasy book 'Celestial Matters' I presented. The DF-21D is so advanced that only Chinese can read the scope and see it. If a non-Chinese look at the same scope, he would see nothing.

 

[gambit]

Members who repeatedly post no citations should be banned

I hope the moderators will take into serious consideration my proposal to ban repeat offenders that do not post citations and keep contradicting mainstream press reports. Please ban Gambit. He's trolling and making contradictory claims without a single mainstream citation to support his position.

I think we're all tired of reading his kooky rhetoric. It is very distracting when serious members are trying to hold a mainstream discussion without his nutty claims.

What a crybaby...

I say that China have access to only the Pacific Ocean. Why do I need citations for that? Can no one look up Google Map and see for himself? Or is Baidu giving you something different where China borders both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans? Or may be Baidu confused China with the US?

I say that China cannot test launch to neither the east nor south. Too dangerous. That leave only the southeast direction between Japan and the Philippines. Why do I need citations for that logical reasoning? Can no one look up Google Map and find out why for himself?

But let us take a look at this image, assuming that it is of a DF-21D land test...

You have no military experience and given your lack of logical thought processes, probably none in engineering or R/D as well.

That image, assuming it is of a DF-21D land test, begs the questions of why would such a test be conducted and how extensive/expensive the testing regime must be in order to produce the desired result.

And what is that desired result?

It is the need to achieve 'High accuracy, High precision'.

If the DF-21D is as cheap as you falsely believed and therefore can be rapidly mass produced to launch hundreds at a single ship, laughable as the notion really is for a 'supa powa', then all China have to do is test to achieve 'High accuracy, Low precision' and let Lady Luck do her thing.

But no, China is working hard to be as good as the US is at this affair. Unlike you and the rest of the Chinese crowd here, the PLA leadership learned the hard lessons of Desert Storm and abandoned ideological fervor and embrace realism. As in real physics.

To you, to be a 'serious' member is to simply accept all Chinese claims, no matter how absurd technically and illogical those claims may be. So if you want to be taken 'seriously' then stay over at that intellectually dead playground that you guys laughably called a 'professional forum' where the most everyone can do is sit around in a virtual circle jerk, post images, and furiously yank...er...I mean...'Thank' each other.

 

[Psyops]

What a crybaby...

I say that China have access to only the Pacific Ocean. Why do I need citations for that? Can no one look up Google Map and see for himself? Or is Baidu giving you something different where China borders both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans? Or may be Baidu confused China with the US?

I say that China cannot test launch to neither the east nor south. Too dangerous. That leave only the southeast direction between Japan and the Philippines. Why do I need citations for that logical reasoning? Can no one look up Google Map and find out why for himself?

But let us take a look at this image, assuming that it is of a DF-21D land test...

You have no military experience and given your lack of logical thought processes, probably none in engineering or R/D as well.

That image, assuming it is of a DF-21D land test, begs the questions of why would such a test be conducted and how extensive/expensive the testing regime must be in order to produce the desired result.

And what is that desired result?

It is the need to achieve 'High accuracy, High precision'.

If the DF-21D is as cheap as you falsely believed and therefore can be rapidly mass produced to launch hundreds at a single ship, laughable as the notion really is for a 'supa powa', then all China have to do is test to achieve 'High accuracy, Low precision' and let Lady Luck do her thing.

But no, China is working hard to be as good as the US is at this affair. Unlike you and the rest of the Chinese crowd here, the PLA leadership learned the hard lessons of Desert Storm and abandoned ideological fervor and embrace realism. As in real physics.

To you, to be a 'serious' member is to simply accept all Chinese claims, no matter how absurd technically and illogical those claims may be. So if you want to be taken 'seriously' then stay over at that intellectually dead playground that you guys laughably called a 'professional forum' where the most everyone can do is sit around in a virtual circle jerk, post images, and furiously yank...er...I mean...'Thank' each other.

That is exactly what you do

We are destroying your absurd and laughable claims just like we destroyed you in the Korean War.

You want to embarrass the US and Americans, give China and Chinese a call. We are experts at humiliating the US, we got their number and they know it.