China’s Anti-Carrier Ballistic Missile Now Opposite Taiwan | Bloomberg

[Genesis]

What a crybaby...

I say that China have access to only the Pacific Ocean. Why do I need citations for that? Can no one look up Google Map and see for himself? Or is Baidu giving you something different where China borders both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans? Or may be Baidu confused China with the US?

I say that China cannot test launch to neither the east nor south. Too dangerous. That leave only the southeast direction between Japan and the Philippines. Why do I need citations for that logical reasoning? Can no one look up Google Map and find out why for himself?

But let us take a look at this image, assuming that it is of a DF-21D land test...

You have no military experience and given your lack of logical thought processes, probably none in engineering or R/D as well.

That image, assuming it is of a DF-21D land test, begs the questions of why would such a test be conducted and how extensive/expensive the testing regime must be in order to produce the desired result.

And what is that desired result?

It is the need to achieve 'High accuracy, High precision'.

If the DF-21D is as cheap as you falsely believed and therefore can be rapidly mass produced to launch hundreds at a single ship, laughable as the notion really is for a 'supa powa', then all China have to do is test to achieve 'High accuracy, Low precision' and let Lady Luck do her thing.

But no, China is working hard to be as good as the US is at this affair. Unlike you and the rest of the Chinese crowd here, the PLA leadership learned the hard lessons of Desert Storm and abandoned ideological fervor and embrace realism. As in real physics.

To you, to be a 'serious' member is to simply accept all Chinese claims, no matter how absurd technically and illogical those claims may be. So if you want to be taken 'seriously' then stay over at that intellectually dead playground that you guys laughably called a 'professional forum' where the most everyone can do is sit around in a virtual circle jerk, post images, and furiously yank...er...I mean...'Thank' each other.

First of all, you should really just come out and say it that all Chinese scientists are idiots who can't build a bike. It's what you are implying anyways. Though I got to say at least some of these Chinese scientists are western educated, so how good are your universities?

Second, unless you are saying you are one of the leading scientists on American weaponry (if you are I don't know what you are doing here) how could you possibly understand everything some of the world's leading scientists does? You say this test is useless, but tests are not just dreamed up one day by a guy and does it. It's planned and there needs to be reasons to justify said test before it is conducted. I'm not sure if they share those plans and reasons with you.

Third, I doubt China will use even 3 on a single ship, as you can see by the two holes (if real) they are looking at two at most per ship.

Lastly, as to accept all PLA claims, probably not a good idea, because they like to hide what they have and misdirect. When was the last time you heard anything really recent from the PLA? Also I am sure any public statements are carefully written and edited by experts, they don't get paid for nothing. And where are we suppose to hear and believe other than Chinese sources? The CIA?

 

[j20blackdragon]

The amateurs here that harp on and on about proof of the DF-21D's ability to hit a moving target are missing the point.

China now has Prompt Global Strike capability and the US doesn't.

You don't need to hit a moving ship when you can hit a stationary naval base.

In fact, you're doing more long term damage if you hit the naval base anyway.

In other words, hit the beehive instead of the bee.

I'll give you an example: Naval Base Guam.

This is Apra Harbor, Guam.

Now let's zoom in a little.

Photograph by Andrea Booher taken on 12/13/2002 in Guam
FEMA Photo Library: Photograph by Andrea Booher taken on 12/13/2002 in Guam

FEMA Photo Library: Photograph by Andrea Booher taken on 12/13/2002 in Guam

Apra Harbor, GUAM, December 13, 2002 -- Firefighters extinguish fires from jet fuel tanks that were burning out of control due to Supertyphoon Pongsona. The fire blocked access to gasoline supplies for the island and has caused the shutdown of Apra Harbor, the primary supply and fuel delivery point for Guam. Photo by Andrea Booher/FEMA News Photo

See those large, unprotected cylinder fuel tanks in the above photos?

You hit those fuel storage tanks with the DF-21D (or another missile) and you shut down the entire US Navy in East Asia.

The attack will be over in minutes since the DF-21D is hypersonic.

Can Arleigh Burkes and Ticonderogas traverse distances like these with no fuel?

We all know Nimitz carriers are nuclear, but don't the aircraft onboard need jet fuel?

Will you bring in the carriers with no escort ships?

Will you do underway replenishment back and forth from Hawaii? That would be a joke.

Lastly, the DF-21D may or may not be able to reach Guam.

But I'm willing to bet this 4,000 km conventional missile can.

A military source close to the development, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed to the Global Times yesterday that "The subject under development is a medium- and long-range conventional missile with a traveling distance of as far as 4,000 kilometers."

New missile 'ready by 2015': Global Times - People's Daily Online

The DF-21D is merely a single missile in a family of missiles capable of Prompt Global Strike. Get ready.

 

[Viper0011.]

Because of 'Chinese physics', like in the fantasy book 'Celestial Matters' I presented. The DF-21D is so advanced that only Chinese can read the scope and see it. If a non-Chinese look at the same scope, he would see nothing.

Gambit man, you have the patience to put up with this here. I am almost getting ready to peace out of this thread. This is crazy, grandiose ideas flying everywhere about the mighty DF-21, fake pride and patriotism from the Chinese members running high like a Satellite....

 

[gambit]

First of all, you should really just come out and say it that all Chinese scientists are idiots who can't build a bike. It's what you are implying anyways. Though I got to say at least some of these Chinese scientists are western educated, so how good are your universities?

Wrong. Many have seen many times I said I have a great deal of respect for real Chinese scientists and engineers. REAL scientists and engineers.

Second, unless you are saying you are one of the leading scientists on American weaponry (if you are I don't know what you are doing here) how could you possibly understand everything some of the world's leading scientists does? You say this test is useless, but tests are not just dreamed up one day by a guy and does it. It's planned and there needs to be reasons to justify said test before it is conducted. I'm not sure if they share those plans and reasons with you.

Show me anywhere where I said this land test is useless. You cannot and never will because I never said such a thing.

In fact, many here have seen how often I said that all tests are rigged tests when they ridiculed the American missile tests as 'rigged', then I proceeded to explain why. I showed common manufacturing and R/D processes to show why all tests MUST be rigged tests. None are useless. Every test produce data and all data are useful to varying degrees. I drew from my experience in designing field tests for radar detection of 'low altitude airborne objects.' You can infer what those 'objects' mean for yourself. Since then, no one is foolish enough to ridicule the American missile testing program again.

So this mean I have a better idea than ALL of the Chinese members here on how the DF-21D SHOULD be tested in order for the weapon to have the desired efficacy.

Do you know what the word 'efficacy' mean...???

: the power to produce an effect

The desired effect here is to hit a MOVING SHIP, not a fixed ground point, but along the development path, hitting a fixed ground point must be achieved in order to prove the system's sensor and guidance integration package.

The testing regime can have as many 'milestone' points as the test designer believe there should be. One such milestone can be as simple as to achieve apogee and begin descent. The next milestone can be to achieve stabilization during descent. And so on...

Each test is a destructive test, so the more milestones there are, the more costly the testing regime. On the other hand, if simulations are used in order to reduce cost and the simulations are poorly designed and executed, when there is a live system test based upon simulation projections, something will go wrong catastrophically and because the data produced is based upon poor simulation assumptions, forensic investigations on why the live system test fail will be complicated and probably misleading. Making the entire test regime expensive anyway.

You guys have no idea how much efforts are involved in order for the DF-21D to hit that concrete slab in the desert. I do, and I do not need to know the exact yuan amount, people, and time involved to say that I do know more than all of you guys combined.

Third, I doubt China will use even 3 on a single ship, as you can see by the two holes (if real) they are looking at two at most per ship.

Lastly, as to accept all PLA claims, probably not a good idea, because they like to hide what they have and misdirect. When was the last time you heard anything really recent from the PLA? Also I am sure any public statements are carefully written and edited by experts, they don't get paid for nothing. And where are we suppose to hear and believe other than Chinese sources? The CIA?

In order for the PLA to plan for only one or two DF-21Ds per target, open water testings must be done. Sorry, but there is no way around this. This is not nuclear weapons testing where the entire nuclear fission INITIATION process is completely under our control.

For the DF-21D, the warhead must contend with atmospheric variables such as weather that could obscure its sensor view. It must contend with the target's attempts to reduce its efficacy by countermeasures, and simply moving is a very effective countermeasure.

I do not care what the PLA publish. If the PLA say there is no need to open water testing because it have a superior sensor/guidance technology than the US, so be it. You can take that claim at face value, or you can place China in the same class as Iran -- loony.

But if the DF-21D's test designer have any degree of intellectual honesty, he/they must include open water testing against moving targets, preferably of smaller size than an aircraft carrier to assure a reasonable margin of error in the event the target is aware of an attack and deploy countermeasures. In other words, if you can shoot inside a one meter circle, train for half or even one quarter of that circle.

So explain to us all how did the international community missed all those open water testings in the Pacific.

 

[jhungary]

Gambit man, you have the patience to put up with this here. I am almost getting ready to peace out of this thread. This is crazy, grandiose ideas flying everywhere about the mighty DF-21, fake pride and patriotism from the Chinese members running high like a Satellite....

What do you expect..........

While we "Brainwashed" west keep putting out argument after argument and putting out source, Chinese member will simply brush it away "BECASUE THEY KNOW IT IS NOT TRUE" lol.

Then again, maybe I need to make a few phone call to China to some of my buddy still live there and try to have them get in this forum, maybe then we will have a "More sensible" Chinese voice.

Seems to me, most Chinese member here looks like they are just out of the loonie bin LOL

 

[jhungary]

The amateurs here that harp on and on about proof of the DF-21D's ability to hit a moving target are missing the point.

China now has Prompt Global Strike capability and the US doesn't.

You don't need to hit a moving ship when you can hit a stationary naval base.

In fact, you're doing more long term damage if you hit the naval base anyway.

In other words, hit the beehive instead of the bee.

I'll give you an example: Naval Base Guam.

This is Apra Harbor, Guam.

Now let's zoom in a little.

Photograph by Andrea Booher taken on 12/13/2002 in Guam
FEMA Photo Library: Photograph by Andrea Booher taken on 12/13/2002 in Guam

FEMA Photo Library: Photograph by Andrea Booher taken on 12/13/2002 in Guam

Apra Harbor, GUAM, December 13, 2002 -- Firefighters extinguish fires from jet fuel tanks that were burning out of control due to Supertyphoon Pongsona. The fire blocked access to gasoline supplies for the island and has caused the shutdown of Apra Harbor, the primary supply and fuel delivery point for Guam. Photo by Andrea Booher/FEMA News Photo

See those large, unprotected cylinder fuel tanks in the above photos?

You hit those fuel storage tanks with the DF-21D (or another missile) and you shut down the entire US Navy in East Asia.

The attack will be over in minutes since the DF-21D is hypersonic.

Can Arleigh Burkes and Ticonderogas traverse distances like these with no fuel?

We all know Nimitz carriers are nuclear, but don't the aircraft onboard need jet fuel?

Will you bring in the carriers with no escort ships?

Will you do underway replenishment back and forth from Hawaii? That would be a joke.

Lastly, the DF-21D may or may not be able to reach Guam.

But I'm willing to bet this 4,000 km conventional missile can.



New missile 'ready by 2015': Global Times - People's Daily Online

The DF-21D is merely a single missile in a family of missiles capable of Prompt Global Strike. Get ready.

Wow, exactly how many thing you got it WRONG in the Military angle?? Let's see.

China now has Prompt Global Strike capability and the US doesn't

Well. do you even know what is Prompt Global Strike Capability?

A Prompt Global Strike is the use of CONVENTIONAL weapon to strike ANYWHERE in the world within Hours of notice. Currently the US are the closest able to achieve it as we can send a strike force anywhere in the world as we have the bases and asset all over the world.

Prompt Global Strike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China do NOT EVEN HAVE A GLOBAL STRIKE CAPABILITY and you start talking about Prompt Global Strike

USAF maintain a flight of B-52 and B-2 for 24 hours prompt mission capability. US Navy have naval Bases and naval air station all over the world

Diego Garcia for IOR
US Mainland for North America
Puerto Rico and Gitmo for South/Central America
Pearl Harbor for Pacific Region
US Force Germany for Europe
Saudi Arabia for Middle East
Japan/South Korean for Asia

Say, how do you purpose the China strike the US East coast using CONVENTIONAL WEAPON within hours of notice? You have put some of your missile in our West coast without telling us ? Or you want to claim the mighty DF-21 can strikle ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WITH MOMENT NOTICE? How they do a Global strike when they only have 1900 mile range??

US would have a TRUE PGS when our Hypersonic missile are ready to go, it's already been tested in 2012.

CHINA HAVE NO PGS CAPABILITY, THAT'S IT maybe in your dream you can do a PGS.

See those large, unprotected cylinder fuel tanks in the above photos?

You hit those fuel storage tanks with the DF-21D (or another missile) and you shut down the entire US Navy in East Asia.

Fuel can be replace, FUEL MAKING CAPABILITY CANNOT. You can have fuel put in a tanker from, I don't know, Hawaii, and make a Journey down south, it will only cost you 48 hours.

In war, you hit OIL REFINERY not OIL TANK as you cannot rebuild an oil refinery in 48 hours, and without those, your crude fuel is of no use to your ship.

We all know Nimitz carriers are nuclear, but don't the aircraft onboard need jet fuel?

Will you bring in the carriers with no escort ships?

Will you do underway replenishment back and forth from Hawaii? That would be a joke.

Dude, have you have any idea how many resource dedicated to the USN for underway replenishment??

you don't.

Every heard of a branch in our navy called "Military Sealift Command"??

And do you know how many ship are operated under the MSC?

You don't, don't you? You better read up

List of Military Sealift Command ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh and by the way, our main supply base in Asia is not in Guam and Hawaii, it's in Singapore.....

Please do go online and search Logistic Group Western Pacific, and can you tell me where does it located??

Why would everyone incessantly obsess with Guam, like this is the only Naval Base or the most important one we have in Asia............

dude, please don't even try to comment on US military situation when you have absolutely how things in the US and the world work, you only embarrass yourselves further

 

[ptldM3]

The Df-21D cannot be tracked, that's the whole point. That's why the US is so scared of this game changing weapon. The Yanks cannot detect it let alone shoot it down.
This weapon is an incredible invention and will change how naval warfare is conducted forever.

Satellites, aircraft, ships, and ground radars can easily track any rocket. Debris in space smaller then a cell phone traveling at over 17,000 mph is regularly tracked by the US and Russia for ISS launches.

A rocket gives off extremely high IR signatures, a large RCS, and sometimes radio emissions.

 

[Beast]

Are you living in your dream land? China no PGS? Beidou II for what?

Get yourself updated.

Satellites, aircraft, ships, and ground radars can easily track any rocket. Debris in space smaller then a cell phone traveling at over 17,000 mph is regularly tracked by the US and Russia for ISS launches.

A rocket gives off extremely high IR signatures, a large RCS, and sometimes radio emissions.

The problem is they travel too high and too fast. They are very hard to intercept even you know they are coming.

 

[gambit]

Wow, exactly how many thing you got it WRONG in the Military angle?? Let's see.

Well. do you even know what is Prompt Global Strike Capability?

A Prompt Global Strike is the use of CONVENTIONAL weapon to strike ANYWHERE in the world within Hours of notice. Currently only the US are able to achieve it as we can send a strike force anywhere in the world as we have the bases and asset all over the world.

These guys have a very limited understanding of the military. Simply put: Not one of them have ever been in the military. That is why they usually confuses a conceptual label with a particular weapon system. That is why they think that ONLY a missile can deliver a strike within 24hrs, but not an aircraft or airlift to transport troops.

dude, please don't even try to comment on US military situation when you have absolutely how things in the US and the world work, you only embarrass yourselves further

Most likely, none of them ever left the female scarce villages they live in. If they do not even know what a woman feels like, what make we can believe they would know what the outside world is like?

 

[jhungary]

Are you living in your dream land? China no PGS? Beidou II for what?

Get yourself updated.

The problem is they travel too high and too fast. They are very hard to intercept even you know they are coming.

Then can you please educate us how China conduct PGS? What equipment they are using and how is the delivery system?

 

[gambit]

The problem is they travel too high and too fast. They are very hard to intercept even you know they are coming.

We are well on the way to achieve the desired 'one shot one kill' ballistic missile defense. Plus if the DF-21D warhead have sensors, it can be seduced/distracted.

 

[jhungary]

These guys have a very limited understanding of the military. Simply put: Not one of them have ever been in the military. That is why they usually confuses a conceptual label with a particular weapon system. That is why they think that ONLY a missile can deliver a strike within 24hrs, but not an aircraft or airlift to transport troops.


Most likely, none of them ever left the female scarce villages they live in. If they do not even know what a woman feels like, what make we can believe they would know what the outside world is like?

I actually find it's funny that many Chinese member comment here without even an ounce of logic and pretend they know the military very well. Like you march in a VFW or ANZAC Parade with your chest full of medal and you have no idea what and which medal you had for. It's only time before someone really know his shiite and call your buff.

If only the actual Chinese military is like this, then they will be a walk-over for us, but man, I don't think the real guy are as unknowledgeable as these clown

 

[HongWu]

^ Yes and the real guys already said DF-21D is in service and ready to annihilate USN.

Meanwhile, USN "conveniently" neglects to intervene when we bully Japan, Philippines and Vietnam. (Now add India too but that is not USN job.)

Coincidence?

 

[Psyops]

The US has already said multiple times that the Df-21D cannot be intercepted. It came from the top generals in the US. That means the entire American navy is a sitting duck. All those ships are useless against a Df-21D attack.

Every American base is a sitting duck too.

The American military experienced first hand (by the PLA) what a military defeat feels like during the Korean War. They Americans had advanced weapons and a massive military budget and still got its arse r**ped at the hands of the PLA.
The Yankee military can win against opposition that have no offensive strength like Afghsnistsn and Iraq but against China, the US is too scared after the thumping they received at the hands of the PLA.

The Df-21D is arguably the greatest weapon ever invented because it makes the ENTIRE navy obsolete.

 

[jhungary]

^ Yes and the real guys already said DF-21D is in service and ready to annihilate USN.

Meanwhile, USN "conveniently" neglects to intervene when we bully Japan, Philippines and Vietnam. (Now add India too but that is not USN job.)

Coincidence?

You know what??

I am going to start a Hong Wu Countdown.

I am going to count how many days from you said your Great China is going to take back the "LOST" territories.

ANd I am going to reply you with this count down everytime you post something that, to see how long it take the Chinese PLA to do exactly what you say.

Currently it's Hong Wu + 1 day

The US has already said multiple times that the Df-21D cannot be intercepted. It came from the top generals in the US. That means the entire American navy is a sitting duck. All those ships are useless against a Df-21D attack.

Every American base is a sitting duck too.

The American military experienced first hand (by the PLA) what a military defeat feels like during the Korean War. They Americans had advanced weapons and a massive military budget and still got its arse r**ped at the hands of the PLA.
The Yankee military can win against opposition that have no offensive strength like Afghsnistsn and Iraq but against China, the US is too scared after the thumping they received at the hands of the PLA.

The Df-21D is arguably the greatest weapon ever invented because it makes the ENTIRE navy obsolete.

lol, should be pack up now or should we wait for your expulsion LOL??