China-Pak in MoU to develop stealth variant of JF-17 Thunder

[Nishan_101]

Aviation Week Is also talking about stealthy JF-17 & JF-17 could be MiG-21 of 21st Century I think Indian Media twisted these words of Aviation week into 'to match MiG-21'

I think the MOU was not to develop a stealthy version because its engine can make the jet to cross the level of Mach 1.6 level of speed because of the 2 vertical stabilizers tilted a bit to be stealthy. And also its very small aircraft and PAF might have agreed on a 5th Generation aircraft of which pictures we are viewing since 2005/2006 in different forums. And they might have agreed may be some years ago on the development whether a 50%-50% or 25%-75% JV but they are mentioning now due to the fact that its a special event for everyone.

 

[Jigs]

If true stealth could be achieved through Jammer pods or similar measures alone, then why go to the effort of building entire jets with all stealth features (F 22)? Any kind of measure other than true absorption/deflection of radar is inherently vlnerable. You develop a tech to jam something the other side will develop something to counter it. But with true stealth, you have to move to a different plane altogether...because there is so little by way of radar reflection as a detection medium, you've gotta look for infra red etc.

Because there are different levels of stealth sir. Some stealth is better then no stealth and lots of stealth is better then some. Stop trying to downplay a stealthy JF-17 and keep trying to produce your amazing LCA aircraft that keeps running into delays. There is no such thing as a completely stealth aircraft. Even the F-22 can be detected if your close enough to it. The whole point is to reduce/disrupt radar detection range.

 

[mjnaushad]

Because there are different levels of stealth sir. Some stealth is better then no stealth and lots of stealth is better then some. Stop trying to downplay a stealthy JF-17 and keep trying to produce your amazing LCA aircraft that keeps running into delays. There is no such thing as a completely stealth aircraft. Even the F-22 can be detected if your close enough to it. The whole point is to reduce/disrupt radar detection range.

Now you'll be called a Pakistani....Hiding in turkish flag.

 

[gogbot]

Maybe semi Stealth like F-15SE

The Boeing F-15SE Silent Eagle is a proposed upgrade of the F-15E by Boeing using fifth generation fighter features, such as internal weapons carriage and radar-absorbent material.

Distinguishing features of this version are the conformal fuel tanks that hold weapons internally and the twin vertical tails canted outward 15 degrees to reduce its radar cross section. Weapons storage takes the place of most of each conformal tank's fuel capacity. This variant will also have radar absorbing material where needed.

The F-15SE is to have a level of stealth allowed for export by the US government.Boeing has admitted that this stealth will only be in the range of fifth generation aircraft such as the F-35 Lightning II from the frontal aspect.

Jf-17 is 3x better then Indian Mig21, its nearly comparble to indian Mig 29, and mirages in some Aspacts, i think it will be semi Stealth Version nearly compareable to Eu-thyphon or rafale, to counter Indian Mrca.

That wholly depends on the radar , avionics , engine and missiles of this New JF-17 .

All MRCA planes have powerful engine.(some even SC)
Very advanced radar and avionics
And State of the Art Missiles.

Because there are different levels of stealth sir. Some stealth is better then no stealth and lots of stealth is better then some. Stop trying to downplay a stealthy JF-17

Some stealth ?

RCS reductions are only valid as long as there are not external weapons or tanks.

Engine intake and exhaust also need to be change

As well as a brand new engine.

As far as

Stop trying to downplay a stealthy JF-17

It's an achievement if it happens , But the level of stealth will be the same as 5th gen aircraft. And given the fact most planes carry advanced ESA radars , it wont be a game changer

but by the time it happens there are already actual 5th gen aircraft out there.

and keep trying to produce your amazing LCA aircraft that keeps running into delays.

 

[Jigs]

So Rafale and EFT frontal RCS features are for nothing since they carry external weapons ? Many features can be taken with the JF-17 to reduce its RCS. If China-Pak wanting to develop a stealthy variant of the JF-17 will look into all of those.

Keep eating you popcorn i guess. Next time when you try to develop indigenous 4th gen fighters it would be best to understand your limitations on R&D unless you just plan on bringing in more and more international guys for avionics.

 

[Dazzler]

Stealthy version is not a distant dream anymore as technologies are being developed for JXX and some are being tested on J-10b and J-11s. These technologies can be readily accommodated to some extent in JFT stealth version. By the way, JXX is likely to fly late 2011 or early 2012 and avionics, sensor integration is on as of now. We (China-Pakistan) are going ahead in this arena and having explored new dimensions more than once, one has to think where LCA stands today?

 

[Guynextdoor]

Because there are different levels of stealth sir. Some stealth is better then no stealth and lots of stealth is better then some. Stop trying to downplay a stealthy JF-17 and keep trying to produce your amazing LCA aircraft that keeps running into delays. There is no such thing as a completely stealth aircraft. Even the F-22 can be detected if your close enough to it. The whole point is to reduce/disrupt radar detection range.

My posts have always maintained that JF 17 can be made 'stealthy' not 'stealth'. There are different levels of stealth, but you also have to factor in the theatre in which you are expected to go to war right? If an F16 goes to war in iraq, a low RCS makes complete sense because the iraqui forces had limited radar capability/ not very forward looking. But you field a system against India which has the habit of fielding some advanced systems and good forward planning, then you wouldn't want to take the chance of not DEFINING your systems accurately. Then you can very well say I'll make it stealthy to give it that additional push but not attempting an inadequate job of making it 'stealth'. For that you'd rather revisit the design board and work out a new platform that completely achieves the objective.

Maybe you can also consider that LCA had all these 'delays' it's specifially to avoid some of these pesky hurdles that some other aircraft are facing. We spent years bulding up composite research tech so that LCA from the FIRST prototype flew with an all composite body. We could have always built it with aircraft alumnium and had it flying long ago, always gone straight for external engines/radar. End result, we have significantly mastered composites, engine and radar. Project may not have delievered to the high standards that we set for it but that's ok. NOW we will reap the results.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Maybe you can also consider that LCA had all these 'delays' it's specifially to avoid some of these pesky hurdles that some other aircraft are facing. We spent years bulding up composite research tech so that LCA from the FIRST prototype flew with an all composite body. We could have always built it with aircraft alumnium and had it flying long ago, always gone straight for external engines/radar. End result, we have significantly mastered composites, engine and radar. Project may not have delievered to the high standards that we set for it but that's ok. NOW we will reap the results.

Last time i heard LCA was using foreign Engine & Radar & Kaveri was no where

 

[Guynextdoor]

So Rafale and EFT frontal RCS features are for nothing since they carry external weapons ? Many features can be taken with the JF-17 to reduce its RCS. If China-Pak wanting to develop a stealthy variant of the JF-17 will look into all of those.

Keep eating you popcorn i guess. Next time when you try to develop indigenous 4th gen fighters it would be best to understand your limitations on R&D unless you just plan on bringing in more and more international guys for avionics.

We won't be developing a 4th gen project again, it'll be a 5th gen and it's called MCA.
The reason why we can do that is because:
We have composite tech. we've worked on engine tech, we've got radar tech, almost all of it through LCA program.

Now if your problem is that JF 17 is likely to enter turkish armed forces, then you've gotta analyze it from your requirements perspective.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Last time i heard LCA was using foreign Engine & Radar & Kaveri was no where

Last time I checked Kaveri had stopped throwing it's blades around and had completed it's high altitude trials succesfully indicating that it was a platform that could be built upon. Last time I checked we also flew the LCA with a Radar & a paralell AWACS program indicates that we have the capability to fly an AESA. (P.S- Has JF17 flown with a radar yet?)

 

[gambit]

Gents,

This subject has been debated before. There is no officially accepted standard for 'stealth' or gradations of 'stealth'. No such thing as being 'stealthy'. If there is a standard of either producing a radar low observable body or modifying an existing one, then the unofficial standard is a clean F-16 at 150-200km distance, which is roughly one meter square.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Last time I checked Kaveri had stopped throwing it's blades around and had completed it's high altitude trials succesfully indicating that it was a platform that could be built upon. Last time I checked we also flew the LCA with a Radar & a paralell AWACS program indicates that we have the capability to fly an AESA. (P.S- Has JF17 flown with a radar yet?)

Where have you been sleeping uptill now, JF-17 was part of the recent Exercises High Mark 2010, you have been mastering everything on paper uptill now, we are yet to see an all Indian Operational L-C-A...

 

[Guynextdoor]

Gents,

This subject has been debated before. There is no officially accepted standard for 'stealth' or gradations of 'stealth'. No such thing as being 'stealthy'. If there is a standard of either producing a radar low observable body or modifying an existing one, then the unofficial standard is a clean F-16 at 150-200km distance, which is roughly one meter square.

Ok. Thanks.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Where have you been sleeping uptill now, JF-17 was part of the recent Exercises High Mark 2010, you have been mastering everything on paper uptill now, we are yet to see an all Indian Operational L-C-A...

It was a genuine question. I have heard that some options have been selected & checking if you have flown your jets with any of them.

 

[gogbot]

So Rafale and EFT frontal RCS features are for nothing since they carry external weapons ?

Rafale and EFT never claimed to be stealth aircraft. They only claim HS

take EFT for example

This claim of stealth for the Jf-17 is false.

Many features can be taken with the JF-17 to reduce its RCS. If China-Pak wanting to develop a stealthy variant of the JF-17 will look into all of those.

So no limitations here ,

Let alone the R&D limitations of never having made or tested any 5th gen tech other than an AESA radar.

On top of this they have to build on the limitations of the JF-17's original design. As well as the fact that it is a light weight , single
engine aircraft with very little room for internal Changes.

Single engine also means harder to justify any increase in weight.

Keep eating you popcorn i guess. Next time when you try to develop indigenous 4th gen fighters it would be best to understand your limitations on R&D unless you just plan on bringing in more and more international guys for avionics.