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China offers India fresh proposals to mend ties

You want Kashmir, We wont give you Kashmir. So case closed, animosity will never end. Religion also plays a key here.
Who said we want Kashmir? At least increase your knowledge of the stance of Pakistan even if we are enemies. This will make things a bit easier. Pakistan does not want Kashmir but a referendum in Kashmir according to the wishes of people of the land. That would also mean Pakistani Kashmir and GB area. Now we wouldn't be putting all of it on the line if Kashmir is what we want?
 
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is Baluchistan disputed? Did Pakistan ever said about stopping Indian terrorism in Assam or other areas where naxal movement is going on?
Be careful with this type of argument.

I brought it up to highlight the foolishness [not to mention provocativeness] of talking about 'state-sponsored terrorism' in Kashmir. The highlight is not about 'dispute'. it's about state-sponsored terrorism.

The Indian so-called "demand" (got to love the way it's projected in such an antagonistic way) is quite simple - stop assisting the terrorists. God knows they have caused enough harm in Kashmir - and in Pakistan. If Pakistan stops that, there will be no need for so many troops in Kashmir and the human-rights problems there [which happen anywhere where troops get deployed near civilian populations, same as in Baluchistan] will automatically reduce. How hard is that? Can two sides talk about a political solution when one is engaged in military options?

I don't agree with many things that the separatists in the valley say - but one thing I do agree - Pakistan has done the seperatist cause great harm by latching onto it for the last 70 years and prioritising it over everything else. This obsession has forsaken its credibility, used up immense amounts of money on armaments, created a polity that runs on army orders, affected the perception of the country and done precious little for the cause which is nowhere closer to being solved today than it was in the past.
 
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You cannot have it both ways. Stop state sponsored terrorism in Kashmir. zarb-e-azb was our doing precisely why I said India isn't the only threat. So whoever thinks that PA exists because of India only is utterly naive.

There is no terrorism in Kashmir. It was one of the fastest developing region in India until Pak sponsored terrorism started in 1990.

Kashmir was a major tourism hub.

http://zenithresearch.org.in/images/stories/pdf/2013/JULY/EIJMMS/4_EIJMMS_VOL3_ISSUE7_JULY2013.pdf
Pre 1989, Kashmir was a Paradise in the true sense. The ongoing armed conflict that erupted in early 1990s has hit hard the tourism sector causing the loss of tourist appetite for this particular destination. By 1991 there was a virtual shut down of tourism sector, which impacted the economy of the entire state and percolated down to every household.

Tourist arrival was remarkable 7.2 lakh in 1988 but saw a drastic dip in 1991 when it was a negligible 6287.

If there was terrorism in Kashmir, then why were there so many tourists going there?

The above analysis reveals that the Tourism sector in J&K suffered a sudden downfall due to the massive political disturbance which struck the state in late 1980s‟. Prosperity was hit on all indices and development took a back seat. This led to a creation of a deep economic downturn which will take enormous time to reverse.

This is from a Kashmiri blog.
http://www.peacekashmir.org/views-articles/2012/0515-improvement-in-jammu-kashmir.htm
Before the outbreak of militancy in Kashmir in 1989-90, Kashmir was the most peaceful region in the country.

Before 1989 it was beyond imagination that the most peaceful, beautiful region called paradise on earth will become so hostile where thousands of innocent lives will be lost.

This is all Pakistans doing.

Your people killed Bengalis, and are now killing Kashmiris. You are killing your own people in your own country every day. Your army is not fit to rule.

Here's one from Stanford.
http://web.stanford.edu/class/e297a...t Led to the Insurgency in Kashmir Valley.pdf
In early 1986 were the first clear outbreaks of violence when Muslim fundamentalists attacked the minority Kashmiri Pandits. 46 The exact reason of the outbreak remains unclear, but at the end of it dozens of Pandits had been killed and 24 Hindu temples had been burnt by Muslim mobs. 47 Violent disturbances such as these were all carried out in the name of Islam. The Governor of Kashmir at the time, Jagmohan, observed that most of the disturbances that took place occurred on Friday nights as crowds dispersed from the mosques 48 . Mosques became a platform for religious sermons intermingled with fiery political speeches. The people delivering these speeches were often trained mullahs, who had been sent to Kashmir from Pakistan for this specific purpose. A Kashmiri who attended Mosques during this period commented that such provocative language and distorted facts were

used that even deep-thinking and highly learned persons who listened to these would certainly arise too. Thus, on Friday nights it became quite common for public vehicles to be stoned and police to be attacked49 . In fact, the outbreak of militant violence that became commonplace in the valley was a purely contemporary concept for Kashmiris. Kashmir has no history of resisting hordes of foreign rulers, and in fact was shaped by principles of non-violence and pacifism as dictated by Kashmir’s cultural heritage in the Rishi Order 50 . Thus, it was easy for the Islamic fundamentalist influence to take hold of the submissive Kashmiri people. By using Islam to justify their violence the insurgents were able to refer to their struggle as ‘justice’.

All the poisonous aspects of Islam were dropped on Kashmir. 40+ years of peace in Kashmir destroyed by Pakistan. Your rulers have no intention for peace.

And you are blaming us?

PA exists, that's different. But PA is in power because of India, that's its only reason for staying in power. Hence there is no interest in peace.

This is why Pakistan and China cannot be treated in the same vein.
 
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Who said we want Kashmir? At least increase your knowledge of the stance of Pakistan even if we are enemies. This will make things a bit easier. Pakistan does not want Kashmir but a referendum in Kashmir according to the wishes of people of the land. That would also mean Pakistani Kashmir and GB area. Now we wouldn't be putting all of it on the line if Kashmir is what we want?

Well you have your point. Maybe you should lead the way by conducting referendum in GB region.
On a personal view, I dont give a damn about Kashmir. They can have their independence. But again, why should our nation give up a piece of land for which we have already fought 3 wars already. Its a injustice towards the fallen who made the supreme sacrificed to keep this peice of land.
 
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Another Panchsheel illusion?

Agreed but how come i have hardly ever seen Indians displaying such approach when it comes to Pakistan? Just a question to all those here who are advocating to mend ties with China.

Because Pakistan is an artifical entity. In fact it's not even a country, it's more of an army and its subjects.

India and China, though, are civilizations, older than any other in the whole world. We've only been enemies for like 60 years out of our 5000 years old history. We barely even know each other despite having lived next to each other since time immemorial.
 
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Because Pakistan is an artifical entity. In fact it's not even a country, it's more of an army and its subjects.

India and China, though, are civilizations, older than any other in the whole world. We've only been enemies for like 60 years out of our 5000 years old history.

India has only existed under a unified state in the last 1000 years under foreign invaders. Think about that. A 'natural' civilization/nation which required foreign invaders, gunpowder and railways to properly unite it over the last millenia. What kind of civilization is that?

Before you squat over your keyboard, ready to answer this by talking about flying Cow vimanas and ancient Hanumen armies, I'll give you a protip - it's a fake civilization. Pakistan is no more artificial than India.

Prostate in front of your monkey idols as hard as you want, it wont make your Bollywood country any way similar to the Gupta or Maurya empire.
 
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India has only existed under a unified state in the last 1000 years under foreign invaders. Think about that. A 'natural' civilization/nation which required foreign invaders, gunpowder and railways to properly unite it over the last millenia. What kind of civilization is that?

Before you squat over your keyboard, ready to answer this by talking about flying Cow vimanas and ancient Hanumen armies, I'll give you a protip - it's a fake civilization. Pakistan is no more artificial than India.

Prostate in front of your monkey idols as hard as you want, it wont make your Bollywood country any way similar to the Gupta or Maurya empire.

Your query has been answered numerous times by other Indian members. Have some water-e-zamzam and RTFF my dear mard-e-mujahid.
 
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Because Pakistan is an artifical entity. In fact it's not even a country, it's more of an army and its subjects.

If only wishes were horses beggars would be riders. Isnt this artificial entity alive for the past 70 years despite the tall predictions made by the pseudo intellects such as yourself about it failing and ultimately collapsing as a state?
 
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I am for friendship treaty, but not for FTA.



Chinese will dump their products for cheap and Indian Industry will suffer
Don't be worried , both side will address the issues you might concern.
 
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China seem to have understood stood that enmity with India is not in its interest. It will be reduced to a lower globle status and get marginalized. CHina is a wise country and learns lesson very fast.
 
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I think doing business with India is quite ok, but sigh a peace treaty is impossible as of now. Cause the two sides still have border dispute. And China shall not put aside Pakistan to achieve under table agreement with India. trilateral cooperation shall be address.

China seem to have understood stood that enmity with India is not in its interest. It will be reduced to a lower globle status and get marginalized. CHina is a wise country and learns lesson very fast.
It's not about learn a lesson, it's about a huge potential market India has.
 
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Burhan Wani was surely not a creation of ISI or Pak Army. From Indian POV it's understandable to propagate the terrorism issue to divert any constructive engagement until they upper hand in talks . We are requesting Indians to sit down with us on table and India is simply ignoring offers for peace time and again. India is projecting a classic example of 'Might is Right' but chips will turn someday and this arrogance would cost India dearly, at least some predictions that I believe point in this direction.

SIT AND DO WHAT TALK WHAT? We Indians are quite clear with our stand. You stop terrorism. Talk terrorism. Dude what you expect us to talk peace when globally banned terrorists still running campaigns against india and do public rally till wagha??? Your words are useless. You ate all the bones of Americans till date in the name of hunting down Al Qaida and you know where they found him? In Pakistan. That's too not in some caves of thora bora mountains but at the center of the Pakistan Military eclave.

Let's talk about your Muslims brotherhood with Arabs!!! They paid for your food, development, energy and in Ur nuclear program. But what you did in the end when they called for your help against Yemen? You but Oh sorry funk you buddies

No one trust Pakistan. Even Ur own generals and political leaders runaway to west after they loss power.

And you want India to sit down with you and talk peace and belive your words. The days you controlled these terror outfits are long
 
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SIT AND DO WHAT TALK WHAT? We Indians are quite clear with our stand. You stop terrorism. Talk terrorism. Dude what you expect us to talk peace when globally banned terrorists still running campaigns against india and do public rally till wagha??? Your words are useless. You ate all the bones of Americans till date in the name of hunting down Al Qaida and you know where they found him? In Pakistan. That's too not in some caves of thora bora mountains but at the center of the Pakistan Military eclave.

Let's talk about your Muslims brotherhood with Arabs!!! They paid for your food, development, energy and in Ur nuclear program. But what you did in the end when they called for your help against Yemen? You but Oh sorry funk you buddies

No one trust Pakistan. Even Ur own generals and political leaders runaway to west after they loss power.

And you want India to sit down with you and talk peace and belive your words. The days you controlled these terror outfits are long
Calm down..So much frustration is not good for health..:-)
 
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If only wishes were horses beggars would be riders. Isnt this artificial entity alive for the past 70 years despite the tall predictions made by the pseudo intellects such as yourself about it failing and ultimately collapsing as a state?

Dude , you have to understand that 70 years is a flash in the pan when it comes to lives of nations and civilizations. In fact , Pakistan couldn't even survive the first 25 years . The remaining entity exists only because it is a Pakistani army kingdom,not because it's a country.
 
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Who said we want Kashmir? At least increase your knowledge of the stance of Pakistan even if we are enemies. This will make things a bit easier. Pakistan does not want Kashmir but a referendum in Kashmir according to the wishes of people of the land. That would also mean Pakistani Kashmir and GB area. Now we wouldn't be putting all of it on the line if Kashmir is what we want?

Kashmir as a country existed pre 48. What was the reason for u to invade !?? You started all this mess and now u want to held a referendum! !! What the hell
 
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