Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Anony]

NO Pakfa, J-20 or anything else can come closer to the technology being used in the F-22. There's a reason why it's about $ 200 mil a piece.

Every country can make 'Stealthy' jets. ONLY the US can make the F-22. That's the bottom line and you can trust it or try it. Wouldn't recommend sending a few of your SU-30's against the F-22....on the radio, it sounds something like 'Contact Lost'..in the middle of what otherwise would seem to be a normal flight. Then followed by a sharp beep and a dark radar screen.............

Surely we will, but not the Su 30. Wait for 6-7 years, we will send FGFA to kick ur back in the same way Su 30 kick ur F 15 at RED FLAG and Cope India.

 

[Viper0011.]

Surely we will, but not the Su 30. Wait for 6-7 years, we will send FGFA to kick ur back in the same way Su 30 kick ur F 15 at RED FLAG and Cope India.

Less emotions, you'll live longer. I heard a Russian guy say that to one of our mutual friends!! 6-7 years...you are going to have your FGFA kick who's ****? You are going to fly FGFA against Hypersonic jets that travel at Mach 20....you know no missile can hit that right?
Plus, no stealth is invisible anymore. F-22 and F-35 have a new tech in it that can track objects from 800 miles away through high density IR and a combination of other things.....it's not going to be Radars anymore or 50KM IRIST or FLIRs.....I talked about it in some analysis a long time ago!

For the record, no SU-30 'kicked' F-15's **** at Nellis. Go read up. F-15's were told not to use BVRs plus no AWACS support. While Su-30's were allowed with BVR's but no AWACS support. The purpose for the US was to measure SU-30's flight characteristics and its true capability as THATS what China has (India was mere a country who happen to have those so it was easier to invite them).
USAF / USN ALWAYS gives the other air forces a chance to win or have the upper hand. That's the idea.
Similarly.....Rafale 'lock' on the F-22....what did you think that was??? LOL. Remember, the US brings people from India to help its innovation going. Not the other way around. I don't see that changing in 6-7 or 15 years. Some innovation will come but not all. If India and China run a $ 400 billion budget with strong focus on military r&d, after 15 years, I will start to see some results on the advanced capability.

 

[Anony]

An AESA/PESA on a J-10B nose is not enough proof ??

So since you compared the "development with LCA" why dont you show an LCA having an AESA on its nose ...

Dont forget its the same China that brought two stealth designs on the table in less than 2 years ... And is operating indigenous AWACS like KJ-2000 and is exporting AESA based platforms like ZDK-03 ....

hmm really .. well lets reverse the tables ... I provided you with a reliable insider who posted this news ... now would you do the honors of posting a reliable insider news (some one of pupu's status on online forums) to counter my claims ...

or is it the fact that you dont have anything to contradict, except for pacifying to the same excuse of
"official media did not report it"

But even if it did, as always no amount of proof will be enough for u unless it comes from IBN live or times of india ...



WOW ... for the record with the WS-10B gives in excess of 130 KN and with loaded weight rated at 13000 Kg(there is some disparity in loaded weight however considering the use of extensive composites in J-10B, weight would be reduced), it gives J-10 1 + T/W ratio which by your own standards makes it a 4.5 generation fighter jet ...

Full steam ahead for China's engine designs ~ ASIAN DEFENCE

Yes "ALMOST" is the key here because almost got the date of the IOC to 2014, never mind the FOC and then the R&D for a new version including a whole new engine,new avionics, integrating new weapons, structural changes... that all will take 3-4 days right
ANd let me remind you,




So when will your 4.5 generation jet be operational considering you think its going to take two years for J-10 for a new engine (dont forget the details which i mentioned above and then answer )

Yes ofcourse we are not in the race, thats why such an experienced analyst is on our pathetic forum getting his rear end kicked from one place to another and only has one thing to say,
"you cant prove it "
even after seeing photographed evidence, but its not proof cuz "its a nightmare for you"

I have already mentioned before that I am not comparing LCA to J 10, so first of all stop howling on that point.

We have Su 30mki and that 230 in numbers with 42 additional on order. So we don't need a 4 generation aircraft to compare with our 4.5 gen aircraft. So sweet-dream for us not nightmare If j 10 replace F 16 as the main fighter of PAF, it will be icing on the cake for Su 30.

Dude, don't U understand the difference between Past,Present and Future tense.

I mention 3 imp. points in my original post.

1. Status of WS 10 engine.

2. Status of AESA radar

3. EW capability of J 10.

And concluded if it is lack any one of the above three, it shouldn't be called a 4.5 gen fighter and that comparing it with Su 30mki or even F 16 blk 52 is childish.

But U brought all the irrelevant nonsense of KJ 2000, LCA, WS 10G, Kaveri, etc.


So among the three points, I have already considered that WS 10A is doing good and will be at least powering one squadron of J 10 in next two year after seeing ur link only.

But EW no news, and AESA radar is in testing phase, how difficult it is to understand, when it is not on the nose of any fighter it is under testing.

Similar to AESA on LCA or Gripen - both under testing.

I have no qualms in accepting that AESA of J 10 is in advanced stage than on LCA and atleast they will integrate it on J 10 well 2-3 years before DRDO can do it on Tejas.

So please don't distract from the original topic.

 

[Anony]

Less emotions, you'll live longer. I heard a Russian guy say that to one of our mutual friends!! 6-7 years...you are going to have your FGFA kick who's ****? You are going to fly FGFA against Hypersonic jets that travel at Mach 20....you know no missile can hit that right?
Plus, no stealth is invisible anymore. F-22 and F-35 have a new tech in it that can track objects from 800 miles away through high density IR and a combination of other things.....it's not going to be Radars anymore or 50KM IRIST or FLIRs.....I talked about it in some analysis a long time ago!

For the record, no SU-30 'kicked' F-15's **** at Nellis. Go read up. F-15's were told not to use BVRs plus no AWACS support. While Su-30's were allowed with BVR's but no AWACS support. The purpose for the US was to measure SU-30's flight characteristics and its true capability as THATS what China has (India was mere a country who happen to have those so it was easier to invite them).
USAF / USN ALWAYS gives the other air forces a chance to win or have the upper hand. That's the idea.
Similarly.....Rafale 'lock' on the F-22....what did you think that was??? LOL. Remember, the US brings people from India to help its innovation going. Not the other way around. I don't see that changing in 6-7 or 15 years. Some innovation will come but not all. If India and China run a $ 400 billion budget with strong focus on military r&d, after 15 years, I will start to see some results on the advanced capability.

Hypersonic jets at Mach 20, and that to by 2020. R U kidding me?

But importantly, Su 30 mki at Nellis neither F 15 nor Su 30mki were using BVR. And more importantly, Su 30 can't be using BVR because they were not using their main N011M bars radar but an alternative radar which can track only 40km distance. On top they were not connected with each other to share data, only manual wordings were on.

 

[abdulbarijan]

I have already mentioned before that I am not comparing LCA to J 10, so first of all stop howling on that point.

We have Su 30mki and that 230 in numbers with 42 additional on order. So we don't need a 4 generation aircraft to compare with our 4.5 gen aircraft. So sweet-dream for us not nightmare If j 10 replace F 16 as the main fighter of PAF, it will be icing on the cake for Su 30.

Dude, don't U understand the difference between Past,Present and Future tense.

I mention 3 imp. points in my original post.

1. Status of WS 10 engine.

2. Status of AESA radar

3. EW capability of J 10.

It seems u dont understand what u yourself wrote, you were comparing the project development of AESA radars on both jets and claimed that the LCA AESA is similar to that ... dont believe me see for yourself what you wrote ..

AESA RADAR: . As far as development is concerned I too know that it was under development from long time and that one day it will become reality. But that day is not now. Similar to AESA on LCA.

So now I ask you to prove the point you yourself were howling about, if the development progress is the same show us the picture of LCA having an onboard AESA/PESA tested on it like this ....

As far as the MKI goes, you have 18 block 52's, plus 45 MLU F-16's equipt with AMRAAMs along with JF-17's and force multipliers at one side of the border and around 200+ J-10's,150+ J-10/J-10B,70+ SU-27's and 70+ SU-30 MKK's on the other side of the border ....

Still think its a piece of cake ?? or SWEET DREAMS as you yourself point out ...


As far as J-10 replacing F-16's , nope its not going to happen, J-10 will be an additional MRCA of PAF if it does not directly opt for a stealth platform ... but still, if you think J-10 is an easy thing to deal with, why not send some SU-30's to check the other side of the border out, because if i remember correctly you did not had the bullocks to do it after a certain Surgical media strike....ummm..excuse me .. stunt ..

1. It will have AESA radar.(not having)

Thats why prototypes of J-10B HAVE it on their noses ... unlike LCA ..

2. It can maneuverability of 9g.(it never had)

Care to provide a credible link to prove this allegation?

3. It will have WS 10/13 engine.(it don't have)

Again thats why a prototype is running around with WS-10 up its butt ...right ...

4. It can be compared to 4.5 gen fighter.(for what specific technology, only god knows)

Long range AESA/PESA, Low RCS (use of composites/RAM), new EW suite ( dont forget which jet had the honor to be the test bed of a 5th generation fighter) ....

5. It will have a very good EW suite.(No description about that good thing.)

Just check the EW suite of JF-17, read a little something about DAS of JF-17 on the JF-17 info pool thread and then comeback and bark about what's good and whats not ...

And concluded if it is lack any one of the above three, it shouldn't be called a 4.5 gen fighter and that comparing it with Su 30mki or even F 16 blk 52 is childish.

But U brought all the irrelevant nonsense of KJ 2000, LCA, WS 10G, Kaveri, etc.


So among the three points, I have already considered that WS 10A is doing good and will be at least powering one squadron of J 10 in next two year after seeing ur link only.

But EW no news, and AESA radar is in testing phase, how difficult it is to understand, when it is not on the nose of any fighter it is under testing.

Similar to AESA on LCA or Gripen - both under testing.

I have no qualms in accepting that AESA of J 10 is in advanced stage than on LCA and atleast they will integrate it on J 10 well 2-3 years before DRDO can do it on Tejas.

So please don't distract from the original topic.

First of all , no one is calling J-10/J-10A a 4.5 generation fighter, its j-10B we are talking about.Like i said "testing" is one thing "progress" is another, Now if you compare the "progress" of the development of J-10 with AESA, its a different story then the LCA ..


Correction boy, i did not bring in the LCA, you were the one who did, bringing in KJ-2000 was to show CHina now has the ability to make AESA radars and 5th generation platforms ofcourse many of the Indian forums still called it a photoshop even after the pictures were "leaked" but thats a different story, your grudge with China will never allow you to accept the bitter truth ...

LOL! ... well two-three years before LCA ... Are you F-iing kidding me???
LCA MK-II is to be delievered after MK-I is ready, MK-I gets IOC in 2014 as per "PLANS", then the R&D and design, structural changes and testing ...

Safe to say MK-II with AESA wont happen anytime before 2016-2017, now if your saying that it would take Chinese 2-3 years just to integrate a new radar on a platform which is in the testing phase as we speak, then I wonder how much time will DRDO take....

 

[SBD-3]

We should eat sh*t now and lets just close the thread.
Where are all the Think-Tanks who spread all those rumours ... THINK-TANK - THANKS COLLECTORS.

His point is very straight forward, that PAF has been more than satisfied with JFT which meets the current operational requirements. Secondly, he said that PAF is current focusing on optimizing the thunder and increased localization. PAF has acknowledged the advanced technologies and capabilities of J-10 but will not be considering a purchase unless the operational requirements and funds availability demand so.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

His point is very straight forward, that PAF has been more than satisfied with JFT which meets the current operational requirements. Secondly, he said that PAF is current focusing on optimizing the thunder and increased localization. PAF has acknowledged the advanced technologies and capabilities of J-10 but will not be considering a purchase unless the operational requirements and funds availability demand so.

So do you see any further purpose of this thread after a high ranked PAF official briefed about the acquisition of J-10, unless a formal deal take place.

 

[SBD-3]

So do you see any further purpose of this thread after a high ranked PAF official briefed about the acquisition of J-10, unless a formal deal take place.

The thread is about J-10/FC-20, not explicitly about Pakistan Buying J-10. Even Sir Pervaiz Shamim said so that till now only technical negotiations are confirmed, commercial negotiations have not started yet. So there is interest certainly but when would that materialize, we dont know.

 

[Najam Khan]

interview with Air Vice-Marshal Javed Ahmed -Project Director of JF-17 Program　

Internet rumors of Pakistan will buy F-10 rumors, Air Vice Marshal Javad Ahmed denied

F -10 is also out of the hands of the Chengdu Aircraft Manufacturing Company, Pakistan Air Force its also a certain understanding of the Zhuhai Airshow also be able to see the excellent performance of the August flight demonstration team, the Pakistan Air Force know F -10 advanced technology performance, but in the next few years, Pakistan will not consider buying.

Maturity of JF-17 with time, delays in the on-going modernization in IAF, delays in WS-10A and arrival of J-31 on the table might be some of the reasons.

In past 5-6 years, there had been various occasions (such as Mumbai crisis (2008) and attack on Salala post...plus, the likes of a former CAS) when procurement of J-10 looked close but with passage of time it become blurry again. Now, if its dropped down then it will be better for PAF in the longer run.

 

[fatman17]

The thread is about J-10/FC-20, not explicitly about Pakistan Buying J-10. Even Sir Pervaiz Shamim said so that till now only technical negotiations are confirmed, commercial negotiations have not started yet. So there is interest certainly but when would that materialize, we dont know.

its the engine man - has to be chinese, chinese, chinese!!!

 

[Viper0011.]

Maturity of JF-17 with time, delays in the on-going modernization in IAF, delays in WS-10A and arrival of J-31 on the table might be some of the reasons.

In past 5-6 years, there had been various occasions (such as Mumbai crisis (2008) and attack on Salala post...plus, the likes of a former CAS) when procurement of J-10 looked close but with passage of time it become blurry again. Now, if its dropped down then it will be better for PAF in the longer run.

I say get all J-31's. No need for FC-20. I know what I am proposing has more cost to it. BUT, this will eliminate the need to change fighters yet again over 30 years. Plus, if you manage to form the 'Hi Tier' with all Stealth.....you've put half the IAF at a disadvantage.....what will they be fighting with?? "ghosts". So a lot of their fighter and defensive doctrine hits a roadblock. This is not to confuse that they won't have anything, they'll have PakFa and FGFA too. BUT, at that level, the game is neutralized as its ghosts against other ghosts (assuming these are truly stealthy planes). But that's my recommendation. JUST focus on J-31 and get that in numbers like 4-5 squadrons. Then advance JFT into block 3, may be composites and very reduced cross section (semi stealth). Combine these with 4 squadrons of J-16 and then the F-16 B 40 - 52 force, PF becomes a VERY strong air force. Literally be able to keep the enemies at bay

So here's the breakdown:
- 300 JFT's (hopefully 100 - 200 with heavy composites / much reduced RCS and 9 hp's)
- 80 - 120 F-16's (block 40 - 52)
- 80 - 120 J-31's
- 80 - 100 J-16's (at least two squadrons for the Navy in addition to dedicated JFT squadron fro the navy)
- 60 - 80 Point defense (good airframes, worthy of service F-7's and Mirages)
So PAF will be maintaining combat ready force of about 600 - 660 jets, including Western tech and Chinese stealth. This is a VERY STRONG force!!!

 

[SBD-3]

its the engine man - has to be chinese, chinese, chinese!!!

Of course a chinese engine would make Chinese aviation market immune to external dependence. However, As the Russians allowed re-export of RD-93, so could they have allowed AL-31FN to Pakistan since we are not their direct market. Had there been an urgency from PAF, J-10s could just land in green colors being powered by AL-31FN. So yes the argument packs logic but precedent exists against it.

 

[farhan_9909]

skipping J10 seems alot better
we already will have bulk of jft and around 80 f16

its better to save the funds and rather get the J31
EARLIER AND IN LARGE NUMBER

36 j10 wont make any drastic change

 

[S10]

skipping J10 seems alot better
we already will have bulk of jft and around 80 f16

its better to save the funds and rather get the J31
EARLIER AND IN LARGE NUMBER

36 j10 wont make any drastic change

J-10 will be the bulk of Chinese airforce, and will continue to be produced by China even after J-20 and J-31 are inducted. Fourth (Fifth) generation planes are extremely pricey to purchase and maintain, even for China. I doubt you will see those in large numbers. You need a backbone aircraft, which is where J-10 comes in. Once J-31 or J-20 clears the sky of enemy opposition, J-10 and JF-17 can start aerial precision bombings, electronic warfare and close air support.

Besides, J-10B is only the first upgrade. As technologies from J-20 and J-31 program mature, they will be grafted to J-10.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

The thread is about J-10/FC-20, not explicitly about Pakistan Buying J-10. Even Sir Pervaiz Shamim said so that till now only technical negotiations are confirmed, commercial negotiations have not started yet. So there is interest certainly but when would that materialize, we dont know.

Koi hal nai Tuada ... Ke banay ga in lokan da.

TUADA ALLAH HE HAFIZ and enjoy J-10/FC-20 lolly well.