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Chabahar vs Gwadar

Dude. Thats what the plan between Russia, India and Iran was. Plz do some research about the beneficiaries of Chabahar port project. Then we will talk.

And ya, daydreaming can be done when facts are known and understood. Unlike u. :)
And i thought russia is more close to china than india. yup daydreaming at its peak..
 
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I think that delusion runs rampant among Pakistanis, and bad quality of education is an epidemic.I would demolish this pathetic post of yours assertion by assertion.

Also we are already connected to Central Asia though Tajikisan (20 km strip Wakhan corridor).. An the roads have already been constructed with planers rail links Aswell

This just shows illiteracy of Geography of one's own country.

Take a good look at this Map.


800px-Kashmir_map.svg.png

As anyone with eyes could see, Wakhan corridor lies in Afghanistan. You does not share even a millimeter of Border with Tajikistan.

As for backup route for China LOL. It I their main route that is why try are spending almost 50 billion dollars on the Pak-China economic corridor

This assertion betrays complete lack of understanding of Economics, and the difference between cost od Sea Transport vs Surface transport.

This is something about which I have posted earlier which was deleted when this website crashed.

Distance between Shanghai and Kashghar = 5121 Km

5121 Km - Distance from Shanghai to Kashgar

Distance between Kashghar and Gwadar = 2747 Km

2747 Km - Distance from Kashgar to Gwadar


Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in China = 5 cents.

http://www.worldbank.org/transport/transportresults/regions/eap/eap-china-output.pdf

Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in Pakistan = 1.8 cents.

https://www.iisd.org/gsi/sites/default/files/ffs_india_irade_trucking.pdf

These cost are of 2002 and would have become 7 cents for China and 3 cents for Pakistan, just by taking inflation into account.

This is the most conservative calculation as I am not taking into account Hazard premium that nature of Terrain imposes on Pakistan (Karakoram Highway is rated world's fourth most dangerous highway World's 10 dangerous roads | CNN Travel ) and Hazard premium that China has to pay for transporting good through Takla Makan Desert , Kulum Shan mountains range, and Altai Shan mountain range.

But still let us calculate cost of transporting a Tonn of good from Shanghai to Gwadar.

Cost incurred in Chinese territory = 0.07 X 5121 = $358.47

Cost incurred in Pakistani territory = 0.03 X 2747 = $82.41

So total cost from Shanghai to Gwadar for a tonn of goods= $440.88

Now let destination port be Dubai.

Cost of Transporting Dubai to Shanghai = $625 per TEU

http://www.simic.net.cn/news_list.php?lan=en&id=368&flag=cnports&pname=shanghai&page=10

Since standard 1 TEU= 21,600 Kg : Cost of Transporting 1 Ton via sea from Dubai to Shanghai = $28.93

Twenty-foot equivalent unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Similarly cost from Karachi to Dubai for 1 TEU = $125 (rate for Gwadar are not available as port is not operational)

BusinessDubai.com - Bizneeds

Cost of Transporting 1 Ton from Karachi to Dubai = $5.787


Total cost of Shipping a Ton from Shanghai to Dubai via Gwadar = $446.67

Total cost of Shipping directly from Dubai to Shangahi = $28.93 which is 16 times less than that of Transporting via Gwadar.

Heck Total cost of Transport from Gwadar to Chinese border is more than what would be required for Transport from Dubai to Shanghai.


And this is not all. You beloved corridor passed through Khunjareb Pass which remain open only from May 1 to December 31.

Karakoram Highway

Only a fool would believe that it is a main route to anywhere. This is just a backup route for China in case Malacca strait is blocked.


It will not only connect China with Middle East or cut its route short but also connect it with Central Asia. Apart from that China itself neighbours Central Asia (just above Pakistan - GB region-- if you see the map).

Actually, You need to consult map (though that would do no good given your cartographic skills)

china-map-9.jpg

China is directly connected to Central Asia. It is your country which needs either China or Afghanistan for access to Central Asia.

@OrionHunter
 
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and if gwadar goes fully developed and operational this port will easily become one the top most deep sea ports in the world. It actually already is with the depth of over 30 feet and a veryyyyyy long coastline.

Shamain smiles like a jagga whilst twirling moochain.

you are joking right ? Gawadar port's Turning basen depth is 16 meters and 12-14 meter Berth Depth.. not 30 feets
 
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Factors that must be considered:
1) The Pak-China Economic corridor would have high quality roads, and state of the art facilities. (It can be linked with Kabul most easily) Would the Chabahar, Zaranj and Delarm roads be of the same quality? Most certainly not!
2) Gwadar Port has already been completed, while the work on the Road of China-Pak ec corridor will soon be started and I sense that it will be completed very soon since it would be handled by the chinese ;) . As compared to this, the Chabahar port will take some time to develop to that extent.
3)The Pakistan Army has planned to make an entire force for the security of all the workers working on this project. Would Iran, and Afghanistan be able to provide the same amount of security? Most certainly Not!
4)Iran would also not be very jumpy in this development beacuse it does not have much high stakes, and it also would not want to raise it's tensions against Pakistan. As compared to this Pakistan's top priority would be to develop gwadar.

Once the Iran builds the railway line to Chabahar then it would connect to Trans-Iranian Railway. It will serve as major trade route to Russia.
 
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Is this really a "my port is bigger than you" situation ? :lol:

generally speaking , you're right . Pakistan is far more developed than Iran :tup:


And even in this case, there is not much difference.


Chahbhar's Berth no 5 has depth on 11 m, same as cargo pier depth of Gwadar. And btw, depth of Berth no 5 is being increased to 14 meter which would make it deeper than Gwadar.

Berth no 1 and 3 of Chahbhar are 8 m deep ,and berth no 2 and 4 are 9 meter deep.just little less than that of Gwadar.

Port of Gwadar, Pakistan - ports.com

http://www.pmo.ir/pso_content/media/files/2013/5/23606.pdf
 
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I think that delusion runs rampant among some Pakistanis, and bad quality of education is an epidemic.I would demolish this pathetic post of yours assertion by assertion.



This just shows illiteracy of Geography of one's own country.

Take a good look at this Map.


800px-Kashmir_map.svg.png

As anyone with eyes could see, Wakhan corridor lies in Afghanistan. You does not share even a millimeter of Border with Tajikistan.



This assertion betrays complete lack of understanding of Economics, and the difference between cost od Sea Transport vs Surface transport.

This is something about which I have posted earlier which was deleted when this website crashed.

Distance between Shanghai and Kashghar = 5121 Km

5121 Km - Distance from Shanghai to Kashgar

Distance between Kashghar and Gwadar = 2747 Km

2747 Km - Distance from Kashgar to Gwadar


Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in China = 5 cents.

http://www.worldbank.org/transport/transportresults/regions/eap/eap-china-output.pdf

Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in Pakistan = 1.8 cents.

https://www.iisd.org/gsi/sites/default/files/ffs_india_irade_trucking.pdf

These cost are of 2002 and would have become 7 cents for China and 3 cents for Pakistan, just by taking inflation into account.

This is the most conservative calculation as I am not taking into account Hazard premium that nature of Terrain imposes on Pakistan (Karakoram Highway is rated world's fourth most dangerous highway World's 10 dangerous roads | CNN Travel ) and Hazard premium that China has to pay for transporting good through Takla Makan Desert , Kulum Shan mountains range, and Altai Shan mountain range.

But still let us calculate cost of transporting a Tonn of good from Shanghai to Gwadar.

Cost incurred in Chinese territory = 0.07 X 5121 = $358.47

Cost incurred in Pakistani territory = 0.03 X 2747 = $82.41

So total cost from Shanghai to Gwadar for a Kg of goods= $440.88

Now let destination port be Dubai.

Cost of Transporting Dubai to Shanghai = $625 per TEU

http://www.simic.net.cn/news_list.php?lan=en&id=368&flag=cnports&pname=shanghai&page=10

Since standard 1 TEU= 21,600 Kg : Cost of Transporting 1 Ton via sea from Dubai to Shanghai = $28.93

Twenty-foot equivalent unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Similarly cost from Karachi to Dubai for 1 TEU = $125 (rate for Geadar are not available as port is not operational)

Cost of Transporting 1 Ton from Karachi to Dubai = $5.787


Total cost of Shipping a Ton from Shanghai to Dubai via Gwadar = $446.67

Total cost of Shipping directly from Dubai to Shangahi = $28.93 which is 16 times that of Transporting via Gwadar.

Heck Total cost of Transport from Gwadar to Chinese border is more than what would be required for Transport from Dubai to Shanghai.


And this is not all. You beloved corridor passed through Khunjareb Pass which remain open only from May 1 to December 31.

Karakoram Highway

Only a fool would believe that it is a main route to anywhere. This is just a backup route for China in case Malacca strait is blocked.




Actually, You need to consult map (though that would do no good given your cartographic skills)

china-map-9.jpg

China is directly connected to Central Asia. It is your country which needs either China or Afghanistan for access to Central Asia.

@OrionHunter
and your chabahar will not be open for a day for transit to afghanistan as you know what lies ahead of kabul
 
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Chabahar can complement Gawadar, however, there is absolutely no alternative for Gawadar. It's in a league of it's own due to geographic location of Pakistan and the economic center of gravity that has shifted towards China. Think of it as if the magnetic poles of the earth have shifted, anyone with even with ONE functioning neuron will realize the magnanimity of what Gawadar means in the long term, and anyone who thinks that this can be somehow replaced by any other port is delusional at best. This is our cash cow, which we shall milk for eons to come!
Last time I checked,China and Iran were allies.
Wouldn't China mind Iran allowing India to make a port ?
Or if China doesn't mind it,it's safe to assume that China has nothing to worry about Chabahar in competition.
 
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I think that delusion runs rampant among some Pakistanis, and bad quality of education is an epidemic.I would demolish this pathetic post of yours assertion by assertion.



This just shows illiteracy of Geography of one's own country.

Take a good look at this Map.


800px-Kashmir_map.svg.png

As anyone with eyes could see, Wakhan corridor lies in Afghanistan. You does not share even a millimeter of Border with Tajikistan.



This assertion betrays complete lack of understanding of Economics, and the difference between cost od Sea Transport vs Surface transport.

This is something about which I have posted earlier which was deleted when this website crashed.

Distance between Shanghai and Kashghar = 5121 Km

5121 Km - Distance from Shanghai to Kashgar

Distance between Kashghar and Gwadar = 2747 Km

2747 Km - Distance from Kashgar to Gwadar


Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in China = 5 cents.

http://www.worldbank.org/transport/transportresults/regions/eap/eap-china-output.pdf

Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in Pakistan = 1.8 cents.

https://www.iisd.org/gsi/sites/default/files/ffs_india_irade_trucking.pdf

These cost are of 2002 and would have become 7 cents for China and 3 cents for Pakistan, just by taking inflation into account.

This is the most conservative calculation as I am not taking into account Hazard premium that nature of Terrain imposes on Pakistan (Karakoram Highway is rated world's fourth most dangerous highway World's 10 dangerous roads | CNN Travel ) and Hazard premium that China has to pay for transporting good through Takla Makan Desert , Kulum Shan mountains range, and Altai Shan mountain range.

But still let us calculate cost of transporting a Tonn of good from Shanghai to Gwadar.

Cost incurred in Chinese territory = 0.07 X 5121 = $358.47

Cost incurred in Pakistani territory = 0.03 X 2747 = $82.41

So total cost from Shanghai to Gwadar for a Kg of goods= $440.88

Now let destination port be Dubai.

Cost of Transporting Dubai to Shanghai = $625 per TEU

http://www.simic.net.cn/news_list.php?lan=en&id=368&flag=cnports&pname=shanghai&page=10

Since standard 1 TEU= 21,600 Kg : Cost of Transporting 1 Ton via sea from Dubai to Shanghai = $28.93

Twenty-foot equivalent unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Similarly cost from Karachi to Dubai for 1 TEU = $125 (rate for Geadar are not available as port is not operational)

Cost of Transporting 1 Ton from Karachi to Dubai = $5.787


Total cost of Shipping a Ton from Shanghai to Dubai via Gwadar = $446.67

Total cost of Shipping directly from Dubai to Shangahi = $28.93 which is 16 times that of Transporting via Gwadar.

Heck Total cost of Transport from Gwadar to Chinese border is more than what would be required for Transport from Dubai to Shanghai.


And this is not all. You beloved corridor passed through Khunjareb Pass which remain open only from May 1 to December 31.

Karakoram Highway

Only a fool would believe that it is a main route to anywhere. This is just a backup route for China in case Malacca strait is blocked.




Actually, You need to consult map (though that would do no good given your cartographic skills)

china-map-9.jpg

China is directly connected to Central Asia. It is your country which needs either China or Afghanistan for access to Central Asia.

@OrionHunter
Wow! That is what I call a detailed analysis! :tup: A far cry from the cut and paste keyboard warriors!

So does that mean transporting goods via the Gwadar - Kashgar route is unviable due to exorbitant costs involved in transportation?? If it is, then this project is a lemon, only to be used by China as an alternative route in case of an emergency, seeing that the cost of transporting goods from Shanghai to Gwadar is $440 per ton! (Rs 44,000 PKR per ton!! :woot: ) Am I correct? :rolleyes1:
 
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Only a fool would believe that it is a main route to anywhere. This is just a backup route for China in case Malacca strait is blocked.
It may not be main route but it will be main energy route for china gas pipeline and oil pipeline from Gulf,Your calculations are based upon Shanghai,there is province bordering Pakistan where china is building huge industrial capacity,this very road will serve as main trade route to those areas which are away from Yellow sea and near to Gawadar
 
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Thats what our indian Frnds here think (Not us) .. And how india will spy on Pak and China..




Thats what our indian Frnds here think (Not us .. And how india will spy on Pak and China..
Exactly how daft do you have to be?

India is building the port for trade and commerce with Central Asia and Afghanistan.

Its Pakistanis who have a narrow view of the world and think its some grand conspiracy against them.

India already spies on Pakistan. We have the largest collection of remote sensing satellites. Heck the phone of your Chief Of Army Staff was tapped by Indian agencies.

No port is going to suddenly enhance what we already do well.
In a way you have seconded my thoughts. Both Gwader and Karachi are best options for Afghanistan since we literally don't charge them anything while Iran will. Please explain this to Indians.




Yes for now we have an agreement with Iranian Govt to provide electricity to Gwader but Gwader will soon have his own grid, international airport and many other social, economic installations. May be you have not read its 10 years programme which ofcourse will be implemented with the help of China.

Lastly just like in Karachi sea port, we have oil storage depots, Gwader will have the same replication. Karachi is still a huge successful sea port without any natural oil well.
You really don't have to explain anything to the Indians.

The Indians know better than Pakistanis what UNCLOS means and the potential for trade. Considering that India and Iran are more prosperous and better off than Pakistan, no Pakistani is required to explain economics to us.
 
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Wow! That is what I call a detailed analysis! :tup: A far cry from the cut and paste keyboard warriors!

So does that mean transporting goods via the Gwadar - Kashgar route is unviable due to exorbitant costs involved in transportation?? If it is, then this project is a lemon, only to be used by China as an alternative route in case of an emergency, seeing that the cost of transporting goods from Shanghai to Gwadar is $440 per ton! (Rs 44,000 PKR per ton!! :woot: ) Am I correct? :rolleyes1:
No doubt its a fair and good analysis but you are elite member you should have think twice before reply rest read my above Statement and think"Does all Industrial capacity of china lies in Shanghai.
 
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Heck the phone of your Chief Of Army Staff was tapped by Indian agencies.
Land line or Mobile.

You really don't have to explain anything to the Indians.

The Indians know better than Pakistanis what UNCLOS means and the potential for trade. Considering that India and Iran are more prosperous and better off than Pakistan, no Pakistani is required to explain economics to us.
We can kid because we are not poorest on Planet...
 
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