Chabahar vs Gwadar

[RIP Pak LAW]

Do you not understand or do not want to? Read slowly . I said Chahbar gives Afghanistan a non Pakistani option thus taking away yet another hold that Pakistan had on them .

Pakistan has never disallowed Afghanistan using her ports nor any such plans exists in future. Also you are fanatically talking about Pakistan's hold over Afghanistan but what about Iranians ? will they allow Afghanistan using their port so easily ? will US let them do it as well ? LOL dude, Iran is not on good terms with Afghanistan yet especially because of complete American influence so for now too many strings attached for your liking. Economically as well as logically both Gwader and Karachi port's are the best options for Afghanistan and will remain so. P.S with China's influence rising in the region, they may well dictate Afghanistan on behalf of us provided if we don't like anything against our interest.

 

[Tiger Genie]

Pakistan has never disallowed Afghanistan using her ports nor any such plans exists in future. Also you are fanatically talking about Pakistan's hold over Afghanistan but what about Iranians ? will they allow Afghanistan using their port so easily ? will US let them do it as well ? LOL dude, Iran is not on good terms with Afghanistan yet especially because of complete American influence so for now too many strings attached for your liking. Economically as well as logically both Gwader and Karachi port's are the best options for Afghanistan and will remain so. P.S with China's influence rising in the region, they may well dictate Afghanistan on behalf of us provided if we don't like anything against our interest.

May be you don't understand difference between monopoly and competition,

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

Gunmen Storm Kabul Guest House, 2 Indians Among 5 Killed

 

[Daneshmand]

Pakistan has never disallowed Afghanistan using her ports nor any such plans exists in future. Also you are fanatically talking about Pakistan's hold over Afghanistan but what about Iranians ? will they allow Afghanistan using their port so easily ? will US let them do it as well ? LOL dude, Iran is not on good terms with Afghanistan yet especially because of complete American influence so for now too many strings attached for your liking. Economically as well as logically both Gwader and Karachi port's are the best options for Afghanistan and will remain so. P.S with China's influence rising in the region, they may well dictate Afghanistan on behalf of us provided if we don't like anything against our interest.

No. Iran does not have a transit agreement with Afghanistan. Iran charges full transit fees for anything going through its territory to Afghanistan. Pakistan has had a transit agreement with Afghanistan since the creation of Pakistan and before that during the British Raj. This agreement is actually an appendage of Durand agreement which British did with Afghanistan. Therefore Pakistan still renews it and allows for discounted and almost free transit of goods to Afghanistan despite this having a very negative effect on Pakistan's own industries: AFGHAN TRANSIT TRADE

This historical agreement usually was pressured on Pakistani government by British government but the last time this agreement was renewed was under pressure from United States and you know the reason why, as they want Afghanistan to succeed. And that is why Pakistan has to abide by this agreement, otherwise Afghanistan can take the case to WTO and international courts. The agreement even allows for direct trade between India and Afghanistan through Pakistan.

As for Gwadar, did you know to operate a port you need electricity? Without electricity no port can function.

Gwadar is not connected to electricity grid of Pakistan. It is connected to electricity grid of Iran.

Also when ocean going ships visit a port they must be refueled. These gigantic ships need thousands of tonnes of fuel. I do not think there is an oil well in Gwadar that can refuel the ships. So where you are going to refuel the ships? In Dubai? If the ship has to go to Dubai to get refueled why would it even bother to visit Gwadar? You know that Dubai is a competitor of Gwadar, don't you? And where this oil pipeline refueling these ships at your "gigantic international transit port", has to come from? Mars? or Jupiter?

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

May be you don't understand difference between monopoly and competition,

Since Gwader and Karachi are better placed strategically, there is no threat to these ports in the name of monopoly nor our ports are Afghanistan dependent. Its up to Afghanistan to use them as per their liking, we already have a big fat customer in the form of China. Afghanistan will always go for shortest distance and more cost effective route. Chahabar use will be very restricted and limited even for Indians let alone Afghanis.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Really? And you are? Maybe it doesn't look feasible to you.

> An India-operated port in Iran's Chabahar would open a gateway for the country to Afghanistan and Central Asia. The decision to ink MoU with Iran for expansion of Chabahar Port, after a long delay, will finally open up major commercial and strategic opportunities for India.

> In the absence of transit through Pakistan, Iran is India's gateway to Afghanistan, Central Asia, and Russia and beyond and the Chabahar port is the key element in that.

> While the Chabahar port is essentially meant for commercial purposes and provides transit route to Afghanistan, India can use the facility to monitor Pakistani & Chinese activities in the Indian Ocean Region as well as Gulf.

> Once functional, Chabahar will further undermine Gwadar. While Pakistan & China both had high hopes from Gwadar (built with Beijing's assistance), the insurgency in Balochistan is proving to be Achilles hill for both the countries.

> Indian investment in the port would serves as a link to Delaram-Zaranj road that India built in Afghanistan. Chabahar port would give New Delhi a base to position itself after American troops withdraw from Afghanistan. India-built Zaranj-Delaram road in Afghanistan will connect to the Chabahar port via Milak. Iran with financial aid from India is upgrading the Chabahar-Milak road.






> The Chabahar-Milak-Zaranj-Delaram highway will open up the Indian market to Afghan farm products and other exports. It will also help combat the scourge of illicit drugs production and export and assist the trade, transport and transit network of Iran.

A few questions :

1)Do you think Sistan Baluchistan (iranian controlled region) has no insurgency ? (Heck they face not only a seperatist but also sectarian one).

2)What makes you believe that Iran will allow their territory to be used against Pakistan or China?? Or even let india station their naval assets there?

3)What makes you think US will not create an issue ?

4)What makes you think Central Asian States would jump to Chahbahar (when they themselves have disputed with Iran).

5)See the map.. do you believe Arab nations will be A-okay with that?

6)Gwadar is a deep sea port .. It is to be connected not only to afghanistan but also Central Asia & Russia.. Infact it is a shorter route for them and we are already planning to build motorways from CA to connect with Pakistan. Infact we are thinking abour both rail and road links:


Tajik envoy announces completion of Pakistan-Tajikistan road link | Pakistan Today

Pakistan, Tajikistan discuss road, railway links - The Express Tribune

Meanwhile we are also contracting a motorway from Peshawar to Kabul !

And part of
Central Asia Regional Economic Cooperation (CAREC) Program

7) Chahbahar isn't even in the same league as Gwadar.

I can go on and on..

 

[Daneshmand]

Since Gwader and Karachi are better placed strategically, there is no threat to these ports in the name of monopoly nor our ports are Afghanistan dependent. Its up to Afghanistan to use them as per their liking, we already have a big fat customer in the form of China. Afghanistan will always go for shortest distance and more cost effective route. Chahabar use will be very restricted and limited even for Indians let alone Afghanis.

Actually Iran is not even interested in Afghanistan market since it is small. If Afghans want to use Iranian route which is the SAME distance as that of Pakistan (look at the map), well and good. If not, Iran is not worrying. It is all upto Afghans.

Iran is interested to become a transit route for central Asia since it is a land locked region with great potential to grow and a big economy. And Iran has a border with central Asia. Pakistan to access central Asia has to go through Afghanistan which is a very unsafe proposition and also not very convenient since roads in Afghanistan are almost non-existent. Another point to keep in mind is that Afghanistan will never allow this until Pakistan agrees to demands of Afghanistan, one of which is the direct land transit to India right through the heart of Pakistan.

Gwadar's potential is not in competing with anybody. Its potential is to allow a back up route for China. And that is it. However China uses that port and you can trade with China and take concessions from Chinese. That is the potential of Gwadar.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

No. Iran does not have a transit agreement with Afghanistan. Iran charges full transit fees for anything going through its territory to Afghanistan. Pakistan has had a transit agreement with Afghanistan since the creation of Pakistan and before that during the British Raj. This agreement is actually an appendage of Durand agreement which British did with Afghanistan. Therefore Pakistan still renews it and allows for discounted and almost free transit of goods to Afghanistan despite this having a very negative effect on Pakistan's own industries: AFGHAN TRANSIT TRADE

This historical agreement usually was pressured on Pakistani government by British government but the last time this agreement was renewed was under pressure from United States and you know the reason why, as they want Afghanistan to succeed. And that is why Pakistan has to abide by this agreement, otherwise Afghanistan can take the case to WTO and international courts. The agreement even allows for direct trade between India and Afghanistan through Pakistan.

In a way you have seconded my thoughts. Both Gwader and Karachi are best options for Afghanistan since we literally don't charge them anything while Iran will. Please explain this to Indians.

As for Gwadar, did you know to operate a port you need electricity? Without electricity no port can function.

Gwadar is not connected to electricity grid of Pakistan. It is connected to electricity grid of Iran.

Also when ocean going ships visit a port they must be refueled. These gigantic ships need thousands of tonnes of fuel. I do not think there is an oil well in Gwadar that can refuel the ships. So where you are going to refuel the ships? In Dubai? If the ship has to go to Dubai to get refueled why would it even bother to visit Gwadar? You know that Dubai is a competitor of Gwadar, don't you? And where this oil pipeline refueling these ships at your "gigantic international transit port", has to come from? Mars? or Jupiter?

Yes for now we have an agreement with Iranian Govt to provide electricity to Gwader but Gwader will soon have his own grid, international airport and many other social, economic installations. May be you have not read its 10 years programme which ofcourse will be implemented with the help of China.

Lastly just like in Karachi sea port, we have oil storage depots, Gwader will have the same replication. Karachi is still a huge successful sea port without any natural oil well.

 

[Daneshmand]

Or even let india station their naval assets there?

What are you talking about? Naval assets?

Iran is a very patriotic country. Not an inch of it can be given or rented to a foreign force. It is part of the constitution of Iran. Just because Pakistan allows such bases on its territory does not mean others do the same. Chabahar is a commercial port. It is offlimit to any force be it Indian or Pakistani or Chinese.

It is sad to see, Pakistanis do not know about Iran.

It is even ridiculous to even think that Iran will rent a military base to a foreigner.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

What are you talking about? Naval assets?

Iran is a very patriotic country. Not an inch of it can be given or rented to a foreign force. It is part of the constitution of Iran. Just because Pakistan allows such bases on its territory does not mean others do the same. Chabahar is a commercial port. It is offlimit to any force be it Indian or Pakistani or Chinese.

It is sad to see, Pakistanis do not know about Iran.

It is even ridiculous to even think that Iran will rent a military base to a foreigner.

Thats what our indian Frnds here think (Not us) .. And how india will spy on Pak and China..

What are you talking about? Naval assets?

Iran is a very patriotic country. Not an inch of it can be given or rented to a foreign force. It is part of the constitution of Iran. Just because Pakistan allows such bases on its territory does not mean others do the same. Chabahar is a commercial port. It is offlimit to any force be it Indian or Pakistani or Chinese.

It is sad to see, Pakistanis do not know about Iran.

It is even ridiculous to even think that Iran will rent a military base to a foreigner.

Thats what our indian Frnds here think (Not us .. And how india will spy on Pak and China..

Actually Iran is not even interested in Afghanistan market since it is small. If Afghans want to use Iranian route which is the SAME distance as that of Pakistan (look at the map), well and good. If not, Iran is not worrying. It is all upto Afghans.

Iran is interested to become a transit route for central Asia since it is a land locked region with great potential to grow and a big economy. And Iran has a border with central Asia. Pakistan to access central Asia has to go through Afghanistan which is a very unsafe proposition and also not very convenient since roads in Afghanistan are almost non-existent. Another point to keep in mind is that Afghanistan will never allow this until Pakistan agrees to demands of Afghanistan, one of which is the direct land transit to India right through the heart of Pakistan.

Gwadar's potential is not in competing with anybody. Its potential is to allow a back up route for China. And that is it. However China uses that port and you can trade with China and take concessions from Chinese. That is the potential of Gwadar.

I hope Iran helps us set up that oil refinery and also the IP pipeline is operational soon.

 

[nForce]

Pakistan has never disallowed Afghanistan using her ports nor any such plans exists in future. Also you are fanatically talking about Pakistan's hold over Afghanistan but what about Iranians ? will they allow Afghanistan using their port so easily ? will US let them do it as well ? LOL dude, Iran is not on good terms with Afghanistan yet especially because of complete American influence so for now too many strings attached for your liking. Economically as well as logically both Gwader and Karachi port's are the best options for Afghanistan and will remain so. P.S with China's influence rising in the region, they may well dictate Afghanistan on behalf of us provided if we don't like anything against our interest.

Pakistan has disallowed Afghanistan to use to roads linking India.

 

[Shamain]

Lets see which economic corridor is longer....check it

What longer shorter corridor thing has to do here?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Actually Iran is not even interested in Afghanistan market since it is small. If Afghans want to use Iranian route which is the SAME distance as that of Pakistan (look at the map), well and good. If not, Iran is not worrying. It is all upto Afghans.

Iran is interested to become a transit route for central Asia since it is a land locked region with great potential to grow and a big economy. And Iran has a border with central Asia. Pakistan to access central Asia has to go through Afghanistan which is a very unsafe proposition and also not very convenient since roads in Afghanistan are almost non-existent. Another point to keep in mind is that Afghanistan will never allow this until Pakistan agrees to demands of Afghanistan, one of which is the direct land transit to India right through the heart of Pakistan.

Gwadar's potential is not in competing with anybody. Its potential is to allow a back up route for China. And that is it. However China uses that port and you can trade with China and take concessions from Chinese. That is the potential of Gwadar.

Hi,

Afghanistan is already our largest market ... They are dependent on us for almost everything .. From cement to wheat and tractors to livestock !


Also connectivity I bette better .. Baluchistan already has Chaman border with Afghanistan .. Apart from Torkham in Peahawar. (All connected to motorways or Indus National Highway)..

Apart from that we are going to build a motorway connecting Peshawar to Kabul.. An there is no issue of Afgjabistan not givin is access to Central Asia . T statement you are quoting was given by an irrelevant figure (I believe Abdullah Abdullah?)

Also we are already connected to Central Asia though Tajikisan (20 km strip Wakhan corridor).. An the roads have already been constructed with planers rail links Aswell!


As for backup route for China LOL. It I their main route that is why try are spending almost 50 billion dollars on the Pak-China economic corridor ..


It will not only connect China with Middle East or cut its route short but also connect it with Central Asia. Apart from that China itself neighbours Central Asia (just above Pakistan - GB region-- if you see the map).

 

[Shamain]

@Daneshmand good trolling. I enjoyed ur posts on this page

 

[HAIDER]

Gawdar fail due betrayal of Dubai sheikhs . They promised to help this project then all of sudden they started Dubai project. So, Pakistan end up nowhere and now found best possible solution. But Iran Chabar project is basically limited for Afghan development, otherwise it has no use.