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Capitalism is failing us all. Could Islamic economics be the answer?

what do you mean how you collect it? we have a working system. just because its politicized and corrupt due to mismanagement does not mean we have no tax collection at all.

fair distribution is ensured when education is the same for everyone. until that happens we must keep trying

No, you have a broken and rotten system.

Who will fix the mismanagement? The same people who are the cause and the by-product of it?

Enough with the damned patchwork. This garbage outdated mentality of the civilian establishment needs to brutally chocked to death.
 
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No, you have a broken and rotten system.

Who will fix the mismanagement? The same people who are the cause and the by-product of it?

Enough with the damned patchwork. This garbage outdated mentality of the civilian establishment needs to brutally chocked to death.

your views perfectly align with messianic cults who believe in flat earth and haarp at the same time somehow.

i have been here for 2 years and you been planning to ride your white horse to Pakistan.

apka mahal tayyar hai aap jab ajaen pir sahab. zulm karne se faida nahi hoga aap ka anjaam usse bura hoga
 
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Capitalism is failing us all. Could Islamic economics be the answer?

last updated: 16/04/2019 - 18:10
By Muhammed Yesilhark

Opinions expressed in View articles are solely those of the authors.


Billionaire Ray Dalio, manager of the world's largest hedge fund Bridgewater, recently shocked the world when he announced that "capitalism is failing" and that a "revolution" is coming.

There is no denying that global inequality is at unsustainable levels, and that interest-based economies are no longer fit for purpose (in many countries interest rates are too low to incentivise saving at all).


I believe that Islamic economics, with its 2.5% zakat wealth tax (and much lower taxes in other areas) might give us a clue on how to eliminate the worst social inequality. And with a prohibition of abusive high-interest businesses and the incentivisation away from interest-based savings accounts, it can reinvigorate the global economy. These are not just Islamic economic concepts; these are universalist traditional Abrahamic ethics, and a common sense way for us all to enjoy a truly free market.


"Once we strip away the Arabic terminology, concepts like zakat can return our economies to the common sense-based, transparent and equitable set up that the architects of modern capitalism envisaged".
Muhammed Yesilhark

Philanthropist


Dalio’s statements matter, not only because of how strongly worded they are but also because of how topical they are in today’s news climate. They are significant because of who Dalio is, that is to say probably the most successful hedge fund manager in the world. One of my colleagues commented last week that this was the equivalent of the Pope declaring that Catholicism is failing.

Dalio’s words are perhaps more shocking because they violate one of the most sacred unwritten rules of the global rich: you’re not allowed to criticise capitalism if you have benefited hugely from it. Protest - or even displeasure - with the system is a luxury only the poor can afford. It’s normal to see cleaners, or even Uber drivers, angry at inequality. It is less normal to see the world’s wealthiest publicly stating that the order to which they owe their success is “not providing the American Dream.”

The “no protest for the rich” rule has led billionaires to channel their sense of responsibility, frustration or even guilt into philanthropy. This means that we seldom have the wealthy discuss these issues, let alone the root causes from which these problems arise. Those root causes go deeper than many of us realise and addressing them will mean re-examining not only our economics, but our politics and values.

Most of us want a societal order where there isn’t a huge vacuum between the classes. Unfortunately, this gap keeps widening as “casino capitalism” and high interest consumer products entrench divisions.

To create societies where there is mutual respect and compassion, we need an environment of reconciliation between the elites and the masses. The only way to achieve this is through a wealth tax such as the payment of zakat - one of the pillars of Islam - and an effective tool in addressing our current issues. But first, to reform a failing capitalism, we need to fix two things: taxation and the interest rate system. Taxation is easier (and far less left field) to critique since there is an emerging consensus that the global tax system simply no longer works. Through a combination of tax avoidance schemes, tax havens and even relatively innocent methods like transfer pricing, high net worth individuals and their corporations have very little (if any) tax to pay on their wealth. In the absence of effective wealth taxes, governments have no choice but to enforce taxes that perhaps unfairly target the poor, like sales tax and inheritance tax. The injustice of some of these taxes further normalises tax avoidance and polarises society even more.

Critiquing the interest rate system is more controversial. Most people feel that possessing money has some inherent value that should be recognised in a zero (or almost zero) risk way. But with negative interest rates spreading around in the developed world, interest rates are so low in many countries that they simply do not fulfil their purpose of incentivising consumers to save any longer. In short, as Deutsche Bank’s Jim Reid titled his research report last year, we might be witnessing “The Start of the End of Fiat Money.”

Therefore, our current fiat-based monetary system might require a rethink. After all, in the grand scheme of global economic history, it can still be considered an experiment as the vast majority of human history was based on gold and silver-backed sound money. Current proponents of digital currencies (such as so-called Bitcoin maximalists) are proposing a new form of supra-national sound money based on maths - quasi-“digital gold” for the globalised world.

Islamic economics, on the other hand, can give us clues to solve both these issues. Zakat, or Islamic alms, is a simple, transparent annual wealth tax of 2.5%. Let’s only consider tax havens, where estimated wealth of $10 trillion is held around the world. That means if zakat was paid on these funds (perhaps as some kind of amnesty agreement), there would be $25 billion per year flowing into the world’s poorest areas and worthiest causes.

At the same time, other taxes could be reduced or eliminated. In return for the wealth tax, Islamic economics suggests almost zero tax in every other area, including inheritance.

Solving the interest problem will be more gradual and will require a rethink of the monetary system we currently live in, as I previously mentioned. I can’t see a sudden global ban on interest but governments (particularly those with low interest rates) could incentivise other forms of investment, increasing regulation around abusive high interest products and businesses to start with.

Some of these might seem very drastic but once we strip away the Arabic terminology, concepts like zakat can return our economies to the common sense-based, transparent and equitable set up that the architects of modern capitalism envisaged.

When the richest guy in the room is telling you the game is rigged, it’s time to change the rules.
Muhammed Yesilhark is a philanthropist, a trustee of the UK National Zakat Foundation and founder of the Q2Q Foundation

https://www.euronews.com/2019/04/16...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1555431381

@Mangus Ortus Novem @Verve @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

What the hell was all that stuff you did on Pax Islamica with the accent switching and deception about where you're from? Are you even Pakistani lol?
 
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@Reddington @Verve @war&peace @Imran Khan @zulu

Friends,

The fundamental question is Creation of Money.

Do you create money as debt?

Or Do you create money as credit?

Herein lies the difference. The current economic disaster in hyper-capitalism is that it has created so much debt that it can never be repaid... furthermore, the coming pensions crisis is going to create a great social upheavel... that is why people have started talking about Universal income in the west...

So far people have subsidised the West by buying their debt... first through T-bonds then Euro bonds... also keeping their currencies artificiallly low... PKR recent devaluation is a prime example... at current rate the PKR is undervalued. Hence the inflation and interests are a bit too high.
Of course there is an organised campaing by #CriminalEnterprise to manipulate the market through media and political mafia.

Quesiton: How can be Universal Human Rights when for the same job in PK one is paid peanuts and in the West far far more?

At the current state of affairs system is unsustainable ... neither State Directed Capitalism (China) or Neo-liberal Hypercapitalism of the west... both have unpayable debts on their books.

These debts are shown as assets on the books to create more debt thus creating an artificial bubble which will burst.

2008 Crisis is not over... it was just contained through QEs and Helicopter Money... currently ECB and Feds have too much on their books as assets.... please, remember that not all debt is redeemable... hence the crisis in slow motion.

A global conflict can restart the system once again... so there is always danger of great war.

Please, study WW1 and WW2...

Unless there is an economic system based on Human Dignity.... Human Rights can never exist.

Regards,

Mangus

Seems that you have read Mufti Taqi Usmani’s paper which he presented at the UN meeting on the global economic crisis in 2008.

If not, here it is: https://muftitaqiusmani.com/en/book...resent Financial Crisis Causes & Remedies.pdf

Everyone needs to take a look at it.

I am not an economist by any means, my expertise is in the medical field, but I am very interested in the ideas given by @Mangus Ortus Novem and @Verve in this thread.

This thread is pure gold.
 
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The author is a university lecturer with no economics, finance, banking or politics background. She went to Durham, a left wing university and studied Islamic studies and calls herself a philanthropist, I doubt anyone would take her seriously. Its been picked up in the media on the back of highlighting a shariah law agenda, nothing more.

Islamic economic systems do not work in the modern age, ask HSBC- they are the guys who run Saudi's banking treasury and they will say there is no Islamic system behind the scenes. Its not possible because money is a system of origination and reciprocation, money is not created as debt.

Who proposed this idea? https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-tubanur-yesilhark-ozkan-13725732

Seems that you have read Mufti Taqi Usmani’s paper which he presented at the UN meeting on the global economic crisis in 2008.

Just out of curiosity, how well do you know Mufti Taqi Usmani?

The writer makes his position quite clear:

"At the same time, other taxes could be reduced or eliminated. In return for the wealth tax, Islamic economics suggests almost zero tax in every other area, including inheritance."

Add to that his trillion pound Zakat line and he is selling the same easy solution as every socialist rabble rouser: none of us will have to suffer, the rich will pay for everything.

Yes there is nothing to stop further taxation in Islam. Which is pretty much the Pakistani system - all you need to do is ban interest and charge Jizya and you will have an Islamic financial system. But is it as attractive when you put it that way?

Its true, you cant tax people legally over 2.5%, therefore governments will not survive. Economic disaster.

@Reddington @Verve @war&peace @Imran Khan @zulu

Friends,

The fundamental question is Creation of Money.

Do you create money as debt?

Or Do you create money as credit?

Herein lies the difference. The current economic disaster in hyper-capitalism is that it has created so much debt that it can never be repaid... furthermore, the coming pensions crisis is going to create a great social upheavel... that is why people have started talking about Universal income in the west...

So far people have subsidised the West by buying their debt... first through T-bonds then Euro bonds... also keeping their currencies artificiallly low... PKR recent devaluation is a prime example... at current rate the PKR is undervalued. Hence the inflation and interests are a bit too high.
Of course there is an organised campaing by #CriminalEnterprise to manipulate the market through media and political mafia.

Quesiton: How can be Universal Human Rights when for the same job in PK one is paid peanuts and in the West far far more?

At the current state of affairs system is unsustainable ... neither State Directed Capitalism (China) or Neo-liberal Hypercapitalism of the west... both have unpayable debts on their books.

These debts are shown as assets on the books to create more debt thus creating an artificial bubble which will burst.

2008 Crisis is not over... it was just contained through QEs and Helicopter Money... currently ECB and Feds have too much on their books as assets.... please, remember that not all debt is redeemable... hence the crisis in slow motion.

A global conflict can restart the system once again... so there is always danger of great war.

Please, study WW1 and WW2...

Unless there is an economic system based on Human Dignity.... Human Rights can never exist.

Regards,

Mangus


Money creation is like blowing a bubble. At some point the bubble will expand and you will enjoy all the things that go with that. Bubbles, by nature pop and you keep blowing new ones and manage whats inside, moving from one to another. This is a natural thing, human are born, grow and die, stars are born grow and die. This is how it its. There's nothing unnatural about the system.
 
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The leaner the government setup, the less overheads. And I am only talking of the control of the first cog of the supply chain. As for food/agri produce, farmers sell all to the government and retailers/factories/exporters purchase from the government.

why do you need the government as middleman ? what problem do you intend to solve ?
 
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I 'll try and outline few differences in both Islamic Economic System and the capitalist economic system, there was a third one and it failed miserably it is called communism.

Capitalism, the whole system is based upon debt creation means the circulation is money (if I buy it that there is circulation of money) is through interest and markup payment.
Another large problem is paper upon paper concept, an example is a guys mortgages his property with a bank and draws a loan, starts paying interest on it his job is done. Now the bank when it has enough interest paying mortgage deals it will collateralize all those loan and issue an interest paying paper (read bond) which will have may lower interest rates than the collection of properties or may be more. Now what will happen to the bank is when it sells that paper to retail/corporate buyers they will be getting a higher interest rate than the f.e.d papers. Bank will have liquid money which it could utilize to do other business. Bank's paper on the other hand may be utilized by collateralizing and issuing more paper or utilized to get more loans. It actually goes down normally to 11 layers. the extent of this artificial creation of wealth is that if there the final paper worth 500 million dollars the actual underlying asset may be worth only 1 million dollar. If there is a major upset in these 11 layer then we will see another global meltdown like 2009. Frankly you can see as absurd instruments like "water futures of michigan 2050" It is all interest, artificial and exploitation.

Islamic finance or economics (despite the fact I dont agree with the jargons and some instruments) is based purely upon underlying assets if there is no underlying asset no paper creations finish Underlying asset is normally more valued than the amount of loan and there are no layer just a single layered system If there is a default the asset could be sold without much hassle, one of the reasons during the global meltdown of 2009 not a single islamic bank in the world went bankrupt. Second concept of Islamic Economics instead of artificial wealth creation trading is encouraged and profit sharing could be done primarily few ways mudraba, musharika, ijarah, wakala. and Risk sharing through Takaful.

I will discuss more as I find time, but one thing normally people misunderstand is that there is no concept of taxes in an islamic system, its not like that Zakat is a tax it is a compulsory deduction imposed on wealth. Taxes in an Islamic economy are all together a different case. Taxes those days even today are called (Mehsoolat) they were present in the time of prophet PBUH, one example if a villager would want to sell his his produce in Mednia he will have to pay lower rate of mehsoolat, while if a trader from Medina would want to sell his product in the village he would have to pay a higher rate of mehsoolat. The other avenues for state to earn money were wars (sorry history is a b**ch). Leasing out (islamic way) of commercial land (read agricultural) and a few others.
 
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I 'll try and outline few differences in both Islamic Economic System and the capitalist economic system, there was a third one and it failed miserably it is called communism.

Capitalism, the whole system is based upon debt creation means the circulation is money (if I buy it that there is circulation of money) is through interest and markup payment.
Another large problem is paper upon paper concept, an example is a guys mortgages his property with a bank and draws a loan, starts paying interest on it his job is done. Now the bank when it has enough interest paying mortgage deals it will collateralize all those loan and issue an interest paying paper (read bond) which will have may lower interest rates than the collection of properties or may be more. Now what will happen to the bank is when it sells that paper to retail/corporate buyers they will be getting a higher interest rate than the f.e.d papers. Bank will have liquid money which it could utilize to do other business. Bank's paper on the other hand may be utilized by collateralizing and issuing more paper or utilized to get more loans. It actually goes down normally to 11 layers. the extent of this artificial creation of wealth is that if there the final paper worth 500 million dollars the actual underlying asset may be worth only 1 million dollar. If there is a major upset in these 11 layer then we will see another global meltdown like 2009. Frankly you can see as absurd instruments like "water futures of michigan 2050" It is all interest, artificial and exploitation.

Islamic finance or economics (despite the fact I dont agree with the jargons and some instruments) is based purely upon underlying assets if there is no underlying asset no paper creations finish Underlying asset is normally more valued than the amount of loan and there are no layer just a single layered system If there is a default the asset could be sold without much hassle, one of the reasons during the global meltdown of 2009 not a single islamic bank in the world went bankrupt. Second concept of Islamic Economics instead of artificial wealth creation trading is encouraged and profit sharing could be done primarily few ways mudraba, musharika, ijarah, wakala. and Risk sharing through Takaful.

I will discuss more as I find time, but one thing normally people misunderstand is that there is no concept of taxes in an islamic system, its not like that Zakat is a tax it is a compulsory deduction imposed on wealth. Taxes in an Islamic economy are all together a different case. Taxes those days even today are called (Mehsoolat) they were present in the time of prophet PBUH, one example if a villager would want to sell his his produce in Mednia he will have to pay lower rate of mehsoolat, while if a trader from Medina would want to sell his product in the village he would have to pay a higher rate of mehsoolat. The other avenues for state to earn money were wars (sorry history is a b**ch). Leasing out (islamic way) of commercial land (read agricultural) and a few others.

under the gold standard in capitalism there was no debt fueled bubbles. you had other issues.
 
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I 'll try and outline few differences in both Islamic Economic System and the capitalist economic system, there was a third one and it failed miserably it is called communism.

Capitalism, the whole system is based upon debt creation means the circulation is money (if I buy it that there is circulation of money) is through interest and markup payment.
Another large problem is paper upon paper concept, an example is a guys mortgages his property with a bank and draws a loan, starts paying interest on it his job is done. Now the bank when it has enough interest paying mortgage deals it will collateralize all those loan and issue an interest paying paper (read bond) which will have may lower interest rates than the collection of properties or may be more. Now what will happen to the bank is when it sells that paper to retail/corporate buyers they will be getting a higher interest rate than the f.e.d papers. Bank will have liquid money which it could utilize to do other business. Bank's paper on the other hand may be utilized by collateralizing and issuing more paper or utilized to get more loans. It actually goes down normally to 11 layers. the extent of this artificial creation of wealth is that if there the final paper worth 500 million dollars the actual underlying asset may be worth only 1 million dollar. If there is a major upset in these 11 layer then we will see another global meltdown like 2009. Frankly you can see as absurd instruments like "water futures of michigan 2050" It is all interest, artificial and exploitation.

Islamic finance or economics (despite the fact I dont agree with the jargons and some instruments) is based purely upon underlying assets if there is no underlying asset no paper creations finish Underlying asset is normally more valued than the amount of loan and there are no layer just a single layered system If there is a default the asset could be sold without much hassle, one of the reasons during the global meltdown of 2009 not a single islamic bank in the world went bankrupt. Second concept of Islamic Economics instead of artificial wealth creation trading is encouraged and profit sharing could be done primarily few ways mudraba, musharika, ijarah, wakala. and Risk sharing through Takaful.

I will discuss more as I find time, but one thing normally people misunderstand is that there is no concept of taxes in an islamic system, its not like that Zakat is a tax it is a compulsory deduction imposed on wealth. Taxes in an Islamic economy are all together a different case. Taxes those days even today are called (Mehsoolat) they were present in the time of prophet PBUH, one example if a villager would want to sell his his produce in Mednia he will have to pay lower rate of mehsoolat, while if a trader from Medina would want to sell his product in the village he would have to pay a higher rate of mehsoolat. The other avenues for state to earn money were wars (sorry history is a b**ch). Leasing out (islamic way) of commercial land (read agricultural) and a few others.

Okay just say that a real asset was used a medium of wealth transfer. how are you going to drive the economy?
For example, you need a plumber to fix the heating? what asset are you going to give him?
A new business wants to build a road and it needs a $100m to develop? what asset are you going to give that firm? If there was no artificial money creation we still be in the dark ages and we wouldn't have growth.

Lets just say that asset was gold. There is a limited amount of gold in the world. As you expand the value of each slice of gold will go down. Today 1g would buy a whole meal. Tomorrow 1g would buy you a glass of water. As you expand and develop more civilisation, there are more things, so the value of the unit of wealth would go down. Its the same either way. you are only complaining about the value store of what is in your hand, nothing else.
 
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What in the world is this “Islamic” economics?
There is very little economics mentioned in the Quran except Zakat and Jizya.
Concepts that existed prior to Islam and the only thing set is the rate for Zakat.

How would one apply that to an entire economic system built on complex interest and valuation requirements?
Islamic Economic System is a broad topic. The main crux of the argument, here, is the adoption of a currency pegged to gold. Your post above, specifically the portion in bold is the problem that conflicts with the Islamic system, money being created through interest (being printed through thin air).

Let me stress that this isn't something unique to an Islamic system (in case some here might think that proponents for Islamic Economic System are crazy), rather gold standard monetary system was widespread less than a century ago, even in the West. The advantage is that you won't have significant inflation. Disadvantage is that value of the currency is limited by quantity of gold, which varies across countries. That isn't the case with a khilafah spanning the continent.

In Pakistan's case, this would be a wonderful solution, if only it had the technical ability to mine its own gold reserves. It then wouldn't have to sell its reserves at throwaway prices to China, etc.
#CriminalEnterprise from IK cabinet to FinMin informers to SBP.... the opposition i.e. political instablity and compromised media...

In the end Pak State has to decide for how long it is going to remain distant and neutral... Q2-Q3 are most critical for Pak National Security.... debt maturity and payables must be redeemed....

For now the State is just focusing on borders... the entire State...not just the Armed Forces...

One thing is for sure.. Pak won't default. This can never be allowed.

Time to introduce Economic Terrorism Act in the defunct parliment... it won't get passed but it needs to be tabled.

They can try to move in through asset disclosuer scheme...IK gov wants to introduce... let us see how it pans out.

But they need to treat it as national emergency/disaster... and act ruthlessly. As a result IK will loose his government because the allies will get fried as well along with some in his party.
Perhaps Pakistan should consider leaving the WTO and the associated international arbitration courts, both of which disgustingly favor corporations over developing nations. This way, it can avoid repaying its debts and it won't be held hostage to legal settlements by the IPP & RPP power companies that were negotiated through corruption, or the mining companies suing Pakistan over Reko Diq, etc. Seeing how Pakistan's exports are significantly low and it's stuck with horribly negotiated trade deals, leaving the WTO might not be a bad idea. It doesn't have much to lose.
 
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Solution is pretty simple.

LEARN TO GIVE!
THAT is essentially what the Islamic economic system teaches. You can show me a single verse in The Holy Quran that teaches you how to ask for rights; Allah always always ALWAYS teaches you how you give rights and then give some more. Because the more you give, the more it will ultimately come back to you.

The Islamic economic system LITERALLY teaches you to give, not hoard. Invest and share in profit and in loss, don't charge interest regardless of profit or loss.
 
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There is no such thing as "Islamic capitalism" it doesn't exist
 
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