Capitalism is failing us all. Could Islamic economics be the answer?

[Verve]

I sound pretty much like a normal human being. Just not interested in making one group more evil than the other.

Yeah, Babus are normal people. Yeah right. Worse than the politicians.

 

[El Sidd]

Yeah, Babus are normal people. Yeah right. Worse than the politicians.

Who are the Babus now? Dude just relax and share openly.

 

[Verve]

If you leave it at the hands of traditional Molvi sahiban ...... it will never come.

For example let me highlight the apparent discrepancy in this article itself.

Zakat (at a ridiculous rate of 2.5%) is a tax on wealth. Capitalism is wealth accumulation, and Islam is anti wealth accumulation ....... so how can Zakat be on wealth?

Please elaborate further.

Who are the Babus now? Dude just relax and share openly.

Bureaucracy. Your family, right? Share openly.

 

[El Sidd]

Bureaucracy. Your family, right? Share openly.

They are not babus, my family.

 

[Verve]

They are not babus, my family.

Perhaps you don't agree with this title.

Bureaucracy then.

 

[I.R.A]

Please elaborate further.

Does Islam allow wealth accumulation? before you answer read these verses very attentively

9:34
"O you who have believed, indeed many of the scholars and the monks devour the wealth of people unjustly and avert [them] from the way of Allah ."

"And those who hoard gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah - give them tidings of a painful punishment."

9:35

"The Day when it will be heated in the fire of Hell and seared therewith will be their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, [it will be said], "This is what you hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you used to hoard."

2:219

".......... And they ask you what they should spend. Say, "The excess [beyond needs]." Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought."

104 (1:7)

"Woe to every scorner and mocker

Who collects wealth and [continuously] counts it.

He thinks that his wealth will make him immortal.

No! He will surely be thrown into the Crusher......................"

 

[El Sidd]

Perhaps you don't agree with this title.

Bureaucracy then.

I do not think poor people become bureaucrats in Pakistan either.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Socialism failed because it was against Nature.

Hyper-capitalism has failed because its against Nature.

Humanist Economic Model is the only way which is aligned with Nature.

Only way to perserve Human Dignity.

The key is to establish Money Creation Mechanism based on Laws of Life!

 

[Verve]

Does Islam allow wealth accumulation? before you answer read these verses very attentively

9:34
"O you who have believed, indeed many of the scholars and the monks devour the wealth of people unjustly and avert [them] from the way of Allah ."

"And those who hoard gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah - give them tidings of a painful punishment."

9:35

"The Day when it will be heated in the fire of Hell and seared therewith will be their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, [it will be said], "This is what you hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you used to hoard."

2:219

".......... And they ask you what they should spend. Say, "The excess [beyond needs]." Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought."

104 (1:7)

"Woe to every scorner and mocker

Who collects wealth and [continuously] counts it.

He thinks that his wealth will make him immortal.

No! He will surely be thrown into the Crusher......................"

Agreed. Hoarding is prohibited hence land reforms and distribution is critical in Islamic System. Take the lands hosted and distribute to the farmers working on them. Give free land to poor and assist them in building economical and structurally sound homes - it costs a lot less if labour is done by the owners themselves (ie DIY to some extent).

Minimum wage should be strictly imposed.

And this is why the government should be controlling supply and prices at the top of the supply chain. A government needs funds to operate hence it should be profit making instead of imposing taxes.

Government should be passing new tech to all new entrants in the market. Level playing field for all.

Export and national supply companies clearly marked. Medium to Large Export companies can't compete in local industry. Separation a must.

 

[I.R.A]

Agreed. Hoarding is prohibited hence land reforms and distribution is critical in Islamic System. Take the lands hosted and distribute to the farmers working on them. Give free land to poor and assist them in building economical and structurally sound homes - it costs a lot less if labour is done by the owners themselves (ie DIY to some extent).

Minimum wage should be strictly imposed.

And this is why the government should be controlling supply and prices at the top of the supply chain. A government needs funds to operate hence it should be profit making instead of imposing taxes.

Government should be passing new tech to all new entrants in the market. Level playing field for all.

Export and national supply companies clearly marked. Medium to Large Export companies can't compete in local industry. Separation a must.

Government can opt any model as long as it helps and benefits its people in growing, increasing .... in health physically and mentally. And that system takes care of the helpless and incapable of the society.

However, the current understanding of Zakat being a tax on wealth is actually not Islamic at all, how can there be a tax on something which Islam doesn't permit in the first place.

 

[HannibalBarca]

There is up to 50% income tax in the capitalist economy. If you consider that most people's greatest asset - their house - is zakat free, how on earth do you think 2.5% tax on assets will be enough to run a country?

99% of people will pay much less tax under the zakat system. A man with £1m of assets will pay 25000 PA, how is that supposed to fund civil infrastructure? Police, schools, army, healthcare etc?

Zakat is the right of the poor and it should be kept as a separate matter from the state economy. It's lazy thinking to believe zakat alone can substitute the modern tax system.

May I ask... How do you think past Islamic rules survived?

 

[Verve]

Government can opt any model as long as it helps and benefits its people in growing, increasing .... in health physically and mentally. And that system takes care of the helpless and incapable of the society.

However, the current understanding of Zakat being a tax on wealth is actually not Islamic at all, how can there be a tax on something which Islam doesn't permit in the first place.

Zakat is on gold/silver/cash holdings of one year, not on land/house etc. That's my understanding.

What about the suggestion of renaming taxes like GST to Zakat? I find this ludicrous but still would like opinions on it.

 

[EasyNow]

May I ask... How do you think past Islamic rules survived?

There was tax, there has always been tax even during the sahabas time.

I don't pretend there is a magic God-given bullet that will solve all the problems.

 

[I.R.A]

Zakat is on gold/silver/cash holdings of one year, not on land/house etc. That's my understanding.

What about the suggestion of renaming taxes like GST to Zakat? I find this ludicrous but still would like opinions on it.

Every tax that gets paid and collected is Zakat. Separating the two is stupidity. You can see in Pakistan why I call it stupidity ....... because molvi sahib gets to define basis for Zakat ........ and the finance minister is busy with IMF.

And the word Zakat has more than one meaning. Its not giving money only.

 

[313ghazi]

Living standards + cost-of-living vary from household to household and across regions; some places are more expensive for livelihood than others because infrastructure is not uniform across Pakistan.

Now where will the GOP draw the line for wealth tax? Far from easy to decide because people tend to have 'subjective' judgments when consulted, and bureaucracy doesn't care about public opinion anyways. Bureaucracy, if left to its own devices, might decide to impose wealth tax on even lower middle income households across the country.

So many ideas out there but implementation challenges are vast because people are not on the same page over numerous matters.

GOP should rather FIX the Zakaat system and make sure that this sum is actually invested on the needs of the poor across Pakistan. And GOP should disclose these investments to the public on annual basis.

When you go to a bank to get a loan they calculate your credit score based on your outgoings and incomings. If the bank can do it, the government could do it too. I also think there should be limits. The allowance should be personalised but based within average ranges. It should not be possible for me to buy a mansion and then claim my mortgage out of my personal allowance.