Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[fatman17]

Is Jf-17 replaceing F-7s and Mirage on one to one basis?Because that would put the final number at 250-300 Aircraft..

no JFT's capability is greater than the F-7Ps and the baseline mirages. no one-to-one formula. more like 1 JFT to 2-3 older a/c.

40 JFT - block-1's have replaced 40 A-5's in the ground attack role. these also have A2A capability. so superior than the A-5s.
a further 10 JFT - Blk-1's will / should replace at least 20 F-7Ps.

there are a total of 110 active F-7P's in service. the 50 JFT- Block-2's will replace this lot of 90 F-7's by 2016 if no further delays or a combination of F-7Ps and Mirages. only PAF knows the exact replacement plan.

 

[araz]

3 points on the PAF MIRAGE

1. I believe there are some 150 mirages in frontline service with PAF today. Thats a huge portion of PAF total combat fleet around 35% . The planes are 40 years old . Airframe hydraulics and engines must be warn out by now..

2. Some one mentioned replacing the mirages with JF17 thunder block 2. My impression was that THUNDER was replacing the PAFs 150+ F7 CHINEASE mig21s.

With mirage being a western fighter would it not be better to replace it with a western replacement so as to keep western content HIGH in PAF arsenal.

ie Mirage2000 A FANTASTIC war plane and soon with rafales coming into the scene more and more should PAF not fish for these.

3. A Tribute to the Mirage . IMO this has been the mainstay of your airforce over IAF for 4 decades. More than any fighter i THINK the mirage took the most kills.

I am surprised that you GUYS are giving up French technology that is so dam efficient and has such good history with your air force in favour of chinease tech alone and a sprinkling of USA tech which always carrys the threat of sanctions.
PAF missed the M2K boat a long time ago whether through lack of imagination or through intrigue a la Zardari. I think there have been at least 3-4 chances to acquire this bird but PAF has not gone down the route and now the chance is gone. Indian acquisition of the Rafale has ensured that till the contract is signed or not; PAF is excluded from the french market.
In the old days you had the chinese planes as a fall back for any shortcomings perceived by the PAF. However as the relationship has gone from strength to strength and the Chinese aviation industry has scaled new heights of achievement PAF now has realized ( and very rightly so) that the Chinese industry is now matured enough to be relied upon completely. PAF has therefore put its eggs in the Chinese basket other than F16s.
The situation with the F16s is a difficult one. A top notch plane and a darling of the PAF pilots, it has become like a beautiful mistress who although can be cranky and annoying at times is just too good to let go just yet. PAF has really worked hard to get these birds and maintain them. The US Government has also allowed enough hardware to trickle through for us to remain interested. The prospect of acquisition of the birds with US aid is another reason for us to want the planes. So the french and probably the US era is also coming to its end or on its last legs.The coming era is definitely Chinese and their very close collaboration with PAF and the ability to provide loans on friendship rates is a major reason for the flourishing of this partnership.
Araz

These would be a incredible addition to your airforce even 70+ would be a REAL THREAT TO your enemy

 

[Eland76]

The PAF has always impressed me with how well they maintain their elderly Mirages. Those airframes were built to last!

 

[Luftwaffe]

Is Jf-17 replaceing F-7s and Mirage on one to one basis?Because that would put the final number at 250-300 Aircraft..

Highly unlikely, that would be a feat to get 150 originally envisioned JF-17. Rest of 150 or so aircraft could only come provided funds availability or emergency requirements.

 

[Donatello]

Highly unlikely, that would be a feat to get 150 originally envisioned JF-17. Rest of 150 or so aircraft could only come provided funds availability or emergency requirements.

So are we looking at a 200 combat aircraft airforce in front of IAF?

 

[trident2010]

So are we looking at a 200 combat aircraft airforce in front of IAF?

200 is a very good number.

 

[Luftwaffe]

So are we looking at a 200 combat aircraft airforce in front of IAF?

Up till 2018 our fleet would consist of atleast 100-120 JF-17s [if production is increased provided funds availability], 63 F-16s [I don't know if PAF ordered more], 60-65 Mirage ROSE, 48-65 F-7PGs. But by 2020 we would already be in hurry to replace these Mirages and F-7PGs so there is no time to rest for PAF we're late and we're in panic but there is no way out of it due to bad economy. So yeah it is estimated around 275ish or 17 squadrons of these would be in service don't know about dragging non ROSE mirages till 2020, F-7P/MP would clearly be phased out.

I really don't know how PAF would keep 26 squadrons operational unless China provide more loans/manufacture for us say 3 squadrons of Block II in next couple of years.

 

[Donatello]

200 is a very good number.

No. More like 300. A figure of 400 would make Pakistani skies invincible, but that is a far fetched number.

JF-17 is much cheaper than alternatives. So it can be procured in large numbers to act as the main work horse. 250 JF-17s, 60+ F-16s, and a third medium-heavy weight fighter in 3-4 squadrons would make PAF hard hitting.

I am sure PAF is looking for the same combination, but funds at the moment are limited.

So either PAF would be operating 3 fighters or have 2 main fighters and a 3rd stealth/low observation type like J-31, to skip J-10 entirely.

But in anycase, 200 total fleet size is not sufficient, considering 2 squadrons would be needed in maritime role and a couple more in ground role. That leaves too little for AWACs escorts and A-A combat.

Up till 2018 our fleet would consist of atleast 100-120 JF-17s [if production is increased provided funds availability], 63 F-16s [I don't know if PAF ordered more], 60-65 Mirage ROSE, 48-65 F-7PGs. But by 2020 we would already be in hurry to replace these Mirages and F-7PGs so there is no time to rest for PAF we're late and we're in panic but there is no way out of it due to bad economy. So yeah it is estimated around 275ish or 17 squadrons of these would be in service don't know about dragging non ROSE mirages till 2020, F-7P/MP would clearly be phased out.

I really don't know how PAF would keep 26 squadrons operational unless China provide more loans/manufacture for us say 3 squadrons of Block II in next couple of years.

F-7Ps will definitely go first, but we cannot drag Mirage ROSE too much. They are sitting ducks in modern combat.

PAF needs a 3rd type, either J-10 or J-31.

Funds Funds Funds!!!

 

[Luftwaffe]

PAF needs a 3rd type, either J-10 or J-31. Funds Funds Funds!!!

If the rumors of J-10C is true perhaps it could become an interest to PAF so far the only thing PAF is interested in is 150 Thunders and F-16 upgrades. 250 JF-17 is a large number for that funds needs to fall daily in PAF's accounts from skies just like nawaz sharif government is printing 6.5 billion rupees daily.

 

[trident2010]

No. More like 300. A figure of 400 would make Pakistani skies invincible, but that is a far fetched number.

If PAF has say 120 JF-17s, 60 odd F-16s and 30 odd say J-10s then it will be a decent force. Remaining should go for SAMs and long range anti-aircraft defences. Compact, lethal and state of the art AF is better than big but not so upto date AF if the primary objective of AF is defending its own skies.

 

[Donatello]

If PAF has say 120 JF-17s, 60 odd F-16s and 30 odd say J-10s then it will be a decent force. Remaining should go for SAMs and long range anti-aircraft defences. Compact, lethal and state of the art AF is better than big but not so upto date AF if the primary objective of AF is defending its own skies.

SAMs can only complement the fighter fleet. The multirole fighter concept is there so your aircraft can attack at sea, land and air targets. SAMs cannot do that.

 

[SQ8]

If PAF has say 120 JF-17s, 60 odd F-16s and 30 odd say J-10s then it will be a decent force. Remaining should go for SAMs and long range anti-aircraft defences. Compact, lethal and state of the art AF is better than big but not so upto date AF if the primary objective of AF is defending its own skies.

The current plan will lead to 150 JF-17s, 70 F-16s and 40 F-7PGs by 2020.

 

[Armstrong]

The current plan will lead to 150 JF-17s, 70 F-16s and 40 F-7PGs by 2020.

Would they be enough to meet our security challenges in 2020 when we predict what they are sitting in 2013 ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Would they be enough to meet our security challenges in 2020 when we predict what they are sitting in 2013 ?

Only time will tell butsy..

Also i wonder if US will released the sanctioned F-16s? roughly 14 ? if im not wrong...

 

[SQ8]

Would they be enough to meet our security challenges in 2020 when we predict what they are sitting in 2013 ?

They will be enough to ensure minimal security. I.e. Ensure that we are able to meet the best case scenario if challenged.